How To Judge Distance On Uphill/Downhill Holes

Bubba Watson breaks most of the surge rules but if you look at his swimg it is far more upright than most of the guys on tour.  Chaulk one up for the verticle swingers

 Sorry Mdull
Muckaluck is right, more humid, more distance.
try this link
http://www1.pacific.edu/~m-duo...

Robert:

    I concur -- with one caveat -- for me it is from about 70 to 75 tards from the hole -- that is my have "wedge in hand" range.  But frequently I can "do it" from about 100 yds -- for weak me, a full 8 iron! arghhhhhhhhh! Old age can be a bummer at times!

     Another thing that I have noted as one who plays many many "pick up" games with whoever is avaialble is that one of my companions is impressed with a shot or a putt that is "fair" or "OK".  Maybe my "standards" are too high - or thiers are too low?  LOL

    Also - going through my stats -- Driving seems good, wdeges and chipping vary from "OK" to "very good" - putting is pretty good, but currently a tendency to miss to the left of the hole ( I think it ia vision thing related to the cataract surgery and changing my dominant eye). It seems to be the shot (or shots) between the drive and getting into wedge range that is the difference between shooting 95 and 85. 

   Amos 

Bubba swings like Bubba. In an insane, savant-like ability to move the ball all over creation, and an inability to hit it in a straight line. He does prove definitively that the way current mainstream golf instructors teach is not the only way to get the ball in the hole.

 Keeping stats can really help in looking at what to practice. Greens in regulation is an interesting stat. What I use is scoring opportunities instead. A 10 foot chip is a better opportunity than a 20 foot putt.

A great example is shooting 66 on a par 72 and hitting only 4 greens. Had 14 easy birdie opportunities inside of 15 feet and cashed in a lot of them. My buddy hit 13 greens and shot over par. Last I saw of him that day was kicking his ball to the parking lot. Oh and after leaving the cash in the hole on the way.

Just another one of those scoring days that the Wizard put on the board.

Right now I am working with a couple of PAT hopefuls to get into a scoring mind set and not a stat one.

I came up with a "cheat" to help me golf when I was about 20 (years ago)... Hit every shot SWEL... Slope, Wind, Elevation, and Lie.   It's a mental check list to go through on each shot as upslope/downslope, wind, uphill or downhill (elevation) and lie (light rough or heavy rough) need to be factored into each shot when you decide what club to use.  I suppose I could parlay the last "L" in "swell" into level, or something-- like sea level vs. altitude.  But for playing local, the first 4 will do.  I still use it today. 

Under certain kinds of humid conditions, you get more hang time, and therefore greater distance. Under other kinds of humid conditions you get less hang time and less distance. So depending on the circumstances either can be correct. Balls don't fly as far through fog, but they will fly further on a hot summer day in New Jersey, right up until the rising humidity collects up where it cools off, sticks together, and falls back down as rain (which simultaneously cools the lower air layers). There are lots of factors so it's not a simple straight-line calculation either way.

Good mnemonic. 

Surge,
I just viewed the daily on uphill and downhill distances. Everything you say sounds right except the humidity factor. Actually, humidity makes the air lighter rather than heavier. This is a common misconception. Water vapor, which is light, displaces oxygen and nitrogen in the air which are heavier. Therefore humid air is lighter than dry air. The ball will travel farther in humid conditions. Also because of this, it is harder to breathe in humid conditions due to less oxygen content.

Surge,
Enjoyed your comments about club selection regarding elevation.  How about cold weather, how does that effect the ball?  I play in NC and notice during the winter that my ball does not go as far.  Is this because of the weather or the temperature of the ball? 

This not on this direct subject, but think it would make for a good daily video..... hitting off tight lies.  I live in the Florida Keys during the winter and the winter is the dry season.  At this time in the spring the Key West Golf Clubs fairways are really dry and there is almost no cushion of grass under the ball, even in the middle of the fairway.  It is getting harder to get good loft on the ball with my 7 through 9 hybrid clubs.  In fact I have though of trying to intentionaly hit into the second cutting just so I would have a little cushion under the ball.  Is their any kind of change in the set up so one can hit balls into the air on these kind of tight lie conditions?  I am playing golf this afternoon and am going to try the A set up (for sand traps) with my 7 to 9 clubs off the fairway tight lies to see it that could work.  Tried it on my mat and net at home this morning and seems like it could work.  I have been getting out of sand traps just like a pro with that setup and really impressing my golf buddies.

Jerry R.

Hello Everyone. I won my winter league Saturday, having to, at least, place first or second to have enough points to win. I went head to head with the two closest  competitors and the competition and banter was fierce. I was even with one of them after 14 holes and even had to give him a stroke. He folded and I shot a 77, beating him by 5 strokes on a course I had never played before and he had played at least 20 times. yay.
My point is; it is so great to have a swing that I can trust and I owe it all to the Surge. Last summer I was a 13 cap and I am now down to an index of 8.3. That is 5 strokes off my game and that is huge. Last year I used to save my scorecards that were in the 70's (only had a few) because they were a novelty and now I'm a little disturbed if I don't shoot in the 70's. Improving the short game, hitting greens in reg has been my mission but it all starts with the tee-shot. Putting it in the fairway means a huge difference between scrambling or taking aim at the stick. That is something I struggled with before and it is a joy to be able to put it in the fairway and take aim at the stick without having to play that fade/slice. I'm not a real long ball hitter being 49 but consistency is golden for me. I highly recommend Surge's training video's if you don't have them.
What I really like about them is the rules of the swing that they teach in a language that is easy to understand and makes perfect sense, not a subjective experience that most pro's are teaching at the local club. Surge is a master and he has my respect. Thanks Surge for all you do, your dailies are gems.
Greg C
Assistant Organizer for www.bcgolfpages.com/meetup

Cold reduces the elasticity of the ball, meaning less compression when you hit it and less distance. Essentially, it makes the ball harder. That's why Surge recommends a softer compression ball during the cold weather.

You could try moving the ball position a little bit further forward and really try for the sense that you're sweeping the ball off the ground. That might help. Most likely you're treating them a little too much like short irons right now. Probably that slight shift to the A setup is actually helping you do just that.

I wanted to give my regards to all enjoying the Spring Swing Surgeon Tournament this week starting today. Having attended the first two events of 2010 and 2011 I tell all it is well worth it. My wife and I were unable to attend this year but will certainly plan on the fall tourny in Las Vegas likely happening the week of the Justine Timberlake Shriners PGA tourny the first week of October. So if you are considering joining us for a great week with Don and DJand likely Doc and several other members of Surges teaching staff. Start saving $$ for it now and plan on making it later this year. Well worth it for sure.
I do wish I was there now. I'm sure Surge will share the week with us here on the blog down the road.

David, what I and many others do is carry a couple of golf balls in our front pocket to keep them warm in cool weather. Of course as Robert referenced, the chill means less distance so this idea is simple and helps. Then rotate the two balls of each new tee.

Robert, when moving the ball forward I hit it fat every time. The hybrids I am using (7 to PW) do not have a flat sole like my Adams 3H to 6H and the bottom of the club bounces off the ground.  Maybe the clubs I had made last spring are not suited well for this kind of lie.  I hit them fine up north off the fairway.  But this problem is really screwing up my game down here ever since it has gotten so dry.  Think I will go back to playing in the early morning when the fairways are a bit softer.

Congratulations, Greg!

Morning report on my nine holes before 8am at Muni.                                                   I am once again starting to get a handle on scoring better. Shot a 40 but now I feel that a 36 is not far off. it's interesting, I use to think that breaking 40 and 80 was my goal. Today I started getting more control of my ball flight and clearly saw not only where I can make up those 4 strokes but honestly feel it will come together soon.I've created a new stat catigory "Good drives". This of course will include par threes and drives that are both fairly long and if not on the fairway(or on the green) at least are in a good spot for the second shot.
Based on that I had 7 out of 9 good drives. The other stat that is a huge difference maker is "Up and Downs". Normally one would only consider this if it is to get up and down for a par. I am actually noting this weather it is to get up and down for a birdie, par or bogie. Can't speak for other golfers but if I'm less than 110 from the green I expect to get on and one putt regardless of weather it's for bog/bird or par. On that note I only had two up and downs today, normally I have 3 or 4 at least. One was for a birdie and another was for par. Over all I had 5 bogies that included two lipped out putts. I had two chips from only 10 yards off the green that I did not get close enough to assure one putts. I also had a three putt from 50 feet. So in my mind, those shots add up to 5 strokes or a 35 for 9 holes instead of the 40 strokes. I know it seems like more than positive thinking to feel like I could have shot a 36 today. But honestly I know it's coming this year. Clearly I know what to work on now and can easily visualize the progress and path to 36 for my morning 9 and 78 or better for 18.

You never answered the question at all

Memphis Net and Twine sells a really nice golf net (different sizes) that will not rot when you leave it out in the sun all season.  I have one at my Michigan home.  Just google Memphis Net and Twine and you can see their products.

For those who've been looking for a net, you might check The Golf Warehouse's one day sale on a net similar to the one Surge uses. 

EDIT: Of course, this sale is over now so ignore it. :)

Just bought the CallawayLR550 laser/rangefinder and used it my last few rounds. I have the Golfbuddy GPS and it is true that the laser gives me exact readings to the flag that are far more accurate than the GPS and are often 5-10 yards different. I still take my gps along too as sometimes the flag is blocked from view and I can still determine about how far to the green withy the gps. I am using the laser almost exclusively and have to say it is fun and easy. It does take a little practice in holding it steady as you get your yardage. I choose not tobother getting one with the slope judgement ability. I can judge fairly well if I'm uphill or down already.
On another note. I feel that it is closer to the green where the uphill/downhill factor is most critical, especially with wedges. Uphill lies add loft and downhill delofts the club.

Hey Amos, hope you're well and it's great you're still chasing that little white ball around. Interesting to read everyones take on stats. I go through weeks where I am focused on details and stats and then others when I just play and don't even keep score much less record stats for various aspects of my game. Even though we play year round in Las Vegas (at least I do)stat details deepens on current goals. Early in the Spring I have more goals for the year. Currently I am working on three main aspects;
1- Hitting my drives long and in the short grass or in a decent position. (seems like an obvious one that we all work on!)
I have switched to a new combination of shaft and driver head. My 9* and my 55 gram Xstiff Adilla shaft. So far I am hitting it farther and leaving it in a better position for shot two. (with my adaptable system I can switch out between 7 shaft and two driver head choices in about 2 minutes- don't hate me for that)
2- Hitting those second shots on the green or positioned well. Positioned well means on the correct side of the green, or on the green putting uphill, not short sided or above hole, ect..
The clubs that need the most work are the woods and 22* hybrid and 4/5 irons.
3- 110 yards in. 
Gapping my wedges is currently a big deal for me. I just bought a Clevland 56* that I may bend to 55 because I have PW 48* 52.5 and 58*. The 55/56 will gap the 5-6 degrees that made the 60-80 yard pitches awkward. To accomodate the extra wedge my 3 wood is going to get some garage time while I test the wedge system. this was a tough decision but the biggest percentage of my scoring happens from 9 iron-58*(120- 10 yards).
      On another note: we have talked about lie angle quite a bit lately and as many of you know I now have the tools to adjust lofts and lies.
The last two times out I have tested my new lies and have found that I overcooked my adjustments. Many of my shots, especially with my scoring clubs (7-wedges) are now finishing left of the hole. So I will be making them maybe 1 degree flatter. As we discussed, they can be seemingly perfect off the lie board but perform differently on the grass while playing. I'll get them dialed in soon.
      Last night my brother stopped by and I changed out all of his grips which were over 8 years old. He opted for the Winn oversized wraps. It took us about 45 minutes to completely regrip his whole set.
Happy boy he is:)

Nice one M, I'll write all that down in my score card folder and carry a laptop
to workout my distances, LOL. 

I think that's a great way to look at it. Gives you a clear picture of where you're not taking full advantage and therefor what you need to work on.

Wish I could meet you out there for more 9s before 8, but right now I can't get out at that hour.

Yep. Also you're dealing with more spin with wedges, so the slope of the green you're hitting into can have a big effect on how much bite and roll you're going to get. 

Not sure what's taking so long for my new grips to get here. I'll have to bug Golfsmith.

This is true if the temperature is the same or the moist air is warmer.

He did, though perhaps not to your satisfaction. He said that he uses a range finder that can tell him the relative distance based on slope (the device uses a level inside to see how it's tilted relative to level and then do a simple calculation of relative distance based on that). Alternately, he says there's no substitute for experience as there are too many factors beyond uphill and downhill that will affect the distance a ball carries for a general rule of thumb to be much use. What's the weather? What's the altitude? What are the general environmental factors? 

Your particular ball flight trajectory will make a big difference, also. Do you hit it a mile high, or have a relatively low trajectory? Changes in elevation have less effect on people with really high trajectory (as the ball is falling closer to vertical by the point where it's coming down), whereas a person with a low trajectory is going to have big issues judging not only how much sooner the ball will hit, but how it will bounce and roll out.

I've had to contact them and they are real helpful.

Hi Muckaluck,
Glad to see someone else knows the properties of air.  I've only run into a couple  of people in a lifetime of  of  golf/baseball who correctly understand the effects of humidity on ball flight.  Your explanation is almost verbatim, with one I use often to explain why humid air is lighter than dry air. 

The reason that that's counterintuitive, is that most people who experience
a change in weather from dry to wet, also experience a loss in ball carry, and roll, hence think that humid air is heavier.  The real cause of the loss in carry,
is that the weather got colder also, and the effect of temperature on ball flight is dramatic in some cases.  Back in Ohio, we often lost 20 degrees F or more when wet weather came in.  I use 10%loss in ball flight for each 46degrees F.  Of course, the ball won't roll as far after the ground gets wet, so most people think that humid air is heavier than dry.

Thanks Robert. It is helping me see clearly what I need to do to reach my current goals. Key for me is the driver and from 110 in. That includes putting of course. But I have come to realise that I don't get on the green in regulation nearly as often as I'd like but if I'm just off the green I should get down in two, period regardless of what's it's for- as I said, par, bog or bird I expect to get it up and down. To me it's the equivilent of a two putt. Thinking this way helps me me not pound myself for all the missed greens. Yes I'll still work hard on GIR's but this different approach to drives and greens is actually freeing me up to get my best scores.
BTW, just let me know when you can play regardless of the time as long as I'm not working I can usually find a way. The National Golf Club sounds like a good choice when you're ready.
Just E-mail me:)