3-Sided View of PPGS Setup and Swing

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 12:00 -- Don Trahan

Randy Wolf has been a student of mine for quite some time. He considers himself a visual learner, so he sent me an interesting request for one of my backyard daily videos. Randy asked if I could place multiple alignment sticks on the ground as well as one sticking out of the end of my club. He thinks it will give Surgites proper visual alignment feedback, which will help with becoming more consistent in the setup and swing.

So, today I'm going to try and get as visual as possible. I want everyone to understand all the angles and be able to have confidence when they set up over the ball. I'm going to go over a lot of stuff today, so don't blink or you may miss something!

Surge,

As you know I am a visual learner. So would you please consider doing a daily video (when it stops raining and warms up) using your alignment sticks on the matt and a short 18" - 20" alignment stick inserted into the butt end of your club? I would like see this first from a rear view with you facing away from the camera. This view will show the toe line and catcher's mitt squence. Second, a front on view facing the camera and third from a side view hitting a ball into the net. I believe that if you show these three views as a visual using all of the alignment sticks, including the one inserted into the butt end of the club, it will give all of us Surgites the proper visual alignment feedback showing the proper set-up alignment, back swing down the toe line alignment and into the catcher's mitt, and finally the forward swing up to a T-finish.

Thank you,
Randy Wolf

Because today's lesson is so visual, all you need to do is sit back, relax, and maybe take some notes!

Keep it vertical!

The Surge

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Comments

dgundling@verizon.net's picture

Submitted by dgundling@veriz... on

Surge,

Two questions.

1, I was under the impression that the knees were supposed to be still during the BUS.
In the video your left knee appears to move forward a noticeable amount in your BUS. Should the knees remain still or is flexing expected?

2. Are the shoulders supposed to remain parallell to the aiming line until after impact or should they turn into the shot before impact? By this I mean that the shoulders rotate to face the target together with the swing prior to impact. Obviously the shoulders don't complete the turn to the target until after impact. Are they expected to be turned something like 20 degrees toward the target at impact?

Thanks.

jon.lucenius's picture

Submitted by jon.lucenius on

Don - thanks for a great video - very helpful on the visuals. I especially felt the alignment of the club at the mitt position being parallel to the target line and directly above the toe line was a good mental picture. Having the club face parallel to the spin angle and not rotated too far is also a good check point as well.

Not much golf here lately, but I did play in Florida over the holidays. Stay safe and warm everyone.

Keep it down the middle,
Jon

bob_furlong@yahoo.com's picture

Submitted by bob_furlong@yah... on

Surge, I thought the requests from another Surgite about visual learners were a bit over the top, so glad you didn't. The butt end stick and your alignment arrows were a great clarifier and reinforcer. Thanks a bunch. Bob in Costa Rica

alankerr@sbcglobal.net's picture

Submitted by alankerr@sbcglo... on

This is a GREAT review! Keep up the good work.

rpmaco's picture

Submitted by rpmaco on

Noticed that club is past vertical and laid off in your video. Also the left knee seems to move too much and your right arm is in front of the left at address when viewing from the back. Please explain.

Love your lessons
Bob Macosko

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

"Past vertical"?

No it's not.
Unless you are talking about on the way down (which it has to do) or from a face on view (which it's supposed to do).

"Left knee moving"?

Not very much. There is always some movement. A golf swing is a dynamic action (even a PPGS), not a stone statue with arms attached.

"Right arm is in front of the left"?

No it's not. When he gets in position the right arm is clearly lower than the left.

reedclfd's picture

Submitted by reedclfd on

Surge: Thanks so much for the well thought-out video! Your visuals on the PPGS are a great way to reinforce our thought processes. You covered some very key points that are the heart of the swing. This one is a keeper to be reviewed often. I just had to laugh when you started breaking things - you REALLY get into your teaching and I certainly appreciate it!! Take care and as always, hit 'em straight! R2

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Very helpful to see the three views of the swing. It really gives us a great over view of the swing and its simplicity. I am currently in the process of doing a refresher review of the PPGS fundamentals videos. It is something that I am making time for as I re-establish my limited 3/4 vertical swing. Though I consider myself very knowledgeable about every aspect of the PPGS and have been an advocate for 5 years now I have decided to start over as if I am a beginner. I am sure I am not performing the swing in the way I need to in order to truly protect my back and make sure I am really keeping it body friendly. So I am having an attitude of a new learner and really listening and reviewing all the key aspects of why, how and what.
In watching the bonus video where Surge and DJ go over the set up and swing from 4 years back I had one of those light bulb moments when they were going over the forward upswing. Surged emphasized that it was in the follow through where most of the strain can happen to the lower back. It is in the follow through where the radical high speed torquing happens. It was a reminder of why it is important to swing up and finish facing the target rather than the body finishing far left and twisting the back. A great reminder that I didn't recall from the stand point of it's effect on the body. The clear need for a 3/4, limited turn back swing (staying out of the SBG) is important but remembering that the T finish, facing the target greatly saves our back and body really struck me.
Learn and then re-learn.

Tedster's picture

Submitted by Tedster on

Something I am probably misunderstanding but see in the video:
It appears as if the clubhead comes around the body on the swing plane to hit the catcher's mitt and then rises vertical beyond the mitt. If that were true, the clubhead would make about a 30 degree change of direction at the mitt at waist-height to shift from the swing plane to the vertical. Then it ends on the vertical rather than in the graveyard.

Are we to imagine that the catcher's mitt is right behind the center-of-swing line (Home Plate) or somewhat behind the golfer's waistline?

Long has been a question, and this video really brings me to asking.
Thanks for all you are doing!

Ted Edwards

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Ted,
It's good to have questions, but no need to have them for a "long time" when the answers are handy and most have been answered more than once. Of course this would likely not be a question if you purchased the very affordable PPGS Fundamentals video and the Manual which I highly recommend if you want to have any realistic chance to understand all aspects of the set up and swing. First, here is the answer to your question on the mitt. If you watch his over all swing you will also see and hear your answer concerning the apparent change to vertical after he reaches the toe line:

https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/where-catchers-mitt

You may have noted that the mitt is about two inches inside the ball line and a few inches below his knee level (see the 6:08 mark). Additionaly, Surge shows that the turn happens with almost no effort to turn. Also you'll see a difference when he demonstrates for illustration sake the turn until the toe line and then the all vertical after to the top. This can make it seem to be a two part move and two different angles. IT'S NOT. It only seems that way while illustrated. If you re-watch the whole thing and all his normal unstaggered whole/complete swings here and in all other videos it is one smooth lift from take away to the top with no change of direction. He (we) are lifting up from the moment we start the back swing Ted. Here is another way that you and any others can visualize and feel what happens,
If you have a swiveling chair (or can mimic one while sitting) do this;
First, put your hands together in a prayer or golf grip position while sitting with the hands on or just above your lap. Slowly lift your hands (the entire two arm to shoulders unit) up until your hands are at eye level. Then bring them back down. Then repeat the lift as you turn (swivel) slowly to your right lifting your arms until you have turned to an imaginary toe line. Stop swiveling without stopping the lift, yes continue to lift even though the chair has stopped turning. Continue to lift your hands to about the height of your right ear (eye level or beside your head). Notice how it appears that you suddenly changed the lift from angled (say 30* as you said) as you turned to vertical after you stopped turning? Actually you didn't change the angle of the lift. It was simply that you stopped your rotation after 70* but continued the lift and as a natural result it became purely vertically only (as it happened when you just sat still and lifted your arms directly up). So it is an illusion of purposeful direction change after we reach the toe line. BTW, I just realized this same example could be done with a club in your hands (watch out for lamps! lol:)
Again, keep in mind we are lifting (not pulling or pushing) the club from the instant we start the back swing. It is angled because we are turning and it stops being angled as we reach the toe line and no longer turn. Make sense?

Ted, thanks for the question. I love it when such questions come up because it forces me to think. I just made up that illustration today. I was also pushed to use the amazing and perhaps the least utlized tool we have. The vast library of thousands of archived daily tips from Surge found by simply putting in a word or phrase at the top right hand side of this page. Do you see it? you'll notice a blank space just below the log in words. There you'll see a small blank with a tiny magnifying glass. To find the above entry I put in the word mitt and presto this came up;

https://www.swingsurgeon.com/search/node/mitt

Then you simply click on the title that seems right, ie., "Where's the catchers mitt?" In the last 5 years Surge has covered almost any question we might dream up answering most multiple times.

Hal's picture

Submitted by Hal on

Robert, With your vast knowledge of the English language and a way pf putting it on paper(print), you are great at answering anybodies questions where they (even I)can understand and grasp the problem and deal with it.
How is your back and leg problem. Healing I hope.
Hal

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Hal,
Thanks pal. The back/leg is healing and I should be back on the links soon. I have a fresh respect for my health and the PPGS swing done right.
Take care

rpmaco's picture

Submitted by rpmaco on

I noticed in the latest video that when Surge demonstrated a full swing from the side and back that the shaft of the club was not vertical at the top of the back swing. I try very hard to get the shaft pointing straight up at the top of the backswing when viewed from the side and the back.

Should I do this or follow what Surge did in his video?? He definitely goes past vertical when viewed from the side.

allenfischer2002@hotmail.com's picture

Submitted by allenfischer200... on

His backswing is vertical when he is bent over at 30 degrees. If he is standing up too much when talking and swinging, that will give the appearance of his club being in the SBG, but it is not in reality. I have stood behind him when he hits the ball. It is hard to talk and bend over at 30+ degrees in these videos.

That is what he means when he says the swing is on an "incline plane".

rpmaco's picture

Submitted by rpmaco on

I know the PPGS is a vertical swing. I think I got my question answered by going back through previous videos where Surge talks about the shaft position at the top of the back swing. I try hard to get the shaft vertical to the ground from the side or front view at the top of my back swing. I doubt that going past vertical hurts much since the overall swing is truly vertical overall. I just noticed that when Surge demos his swing he goes past vertical such that the shaft is pointing somewhat down the target line.

Bob M

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Bob,
Allen and Steve both addressed this in their comments. Again we have to keep in mind that the only views where vertical applies is from the side (I think you mean from the down the line view) and from the targets view as he swings toward us view and not the front view. The only reason it seems vertical in his demos from the front view (face on) at times is purely for emphasis that it is light at the 12 o'clock point. In his full swings he'll normally get the hands up by the side of the head at the top which will be past 12 from the front and vertical at the down the line view. Also the 12, straight up vertical is only at the top before coming down. The shaft always lays off a little as he comes back to the ball in the slot. It is easier to get in a perfect position from straight up to dropping inside. Jim Fruryk does this a much more exagerated manner but it's the same idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHDGq8os1GQ

Now we see an exageration with Jim Furyk's back swing and move down of what Surge is teaching so I am not hear recommending that we copy Jim. However if we did copy this it might come out to closer to Don's moves.
Watching this down the line view of Furyk do you notice how his move vertically in the back swing is a continual flow arching up smoothly? Do you notice he is only vertical as he reaches the 3/4 zone and at the top? Then as he drops into the slot he gets pretty laid off? That is what we want although not as much. Surge, DJ and nearly all pros do that same drop in move to some extent or another. Yes Surge IS NOT vertical on the way down. Yes he says that is his goal like a ferris wheel but he readily admits it does get a little laid off. For most of us who swing too deep and then come back over the top that would be a good thing. Furyk's is major compared to what Surges does or recommends. However if you freeze frame the point of impact. (see the 1:03 point). The difference is particularly noted in the follow through where Furyk's is well left into the SBG and Surge's is more up over the left shoulder close to the left ear.
One of the major differences too is in Furyk's set up his hands are much closer to his legs and his face/head is much further out over his hands than recommended. Unique indeed but his move back and down well illustrates my point.

Tedster's picture

Submitted by Tedster on

My thanks to Robert Meade for the quick and thorough answer.
When I was young and a baseball player, I was the Catcher. My image of the location has been to be right behind Home Plate, higher than the knees where Surge shows it, and variable to be an aiming target for the Pitcher. That immediately sets up confusion for me.

So thanks for that link to previous videos. Even after 5 years, the questions just keep coming in for Surge! That was a really helpful link, and among his best comments within it was the Aiming Alley.

Thanks!

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Your welcome Ted. My latest goal is to just start over with what's called "beginner's mind". As Sargent Sholts use to say on Hogan's Hero's, "I know nasink". Over the last 5 years I have felt privelaged to learn from Master Surge and have gone through phases of getting it and losing it. However I never felt the need from a 'body friendly' standpoint. Always been strong, fit and fairly athletic. Lately my back and left leg have began to give me stress and strain that has lead to 'pain'. Taping my swing I realize that I have been over turning past 70* and then torquing the lower spine too violently in the forward swing in my effort to get more distance. Big mistake. Well no more over doing for me. Really not sure why I let myself over do it. Just what us guys do I guess.
So I am getting serious about applying all the correct aspects of the PPGS. i have gone back all the old original lesson videos and manual. Great stuff. I am reading and applying with beginners mind and am excited to see how it all unfolds. I will keep everyone posted. If anyone else out there is determined to do it right and working a plan to do so I would love to get your input. Whether your a long time Surgite or a newbie.

rpmaco's picture

Submitted by rpmaco on

Thank you all for your comments on my comment. I was first introduced to the Don Trahan PPGS by my daughter-in-law, Anna (Acker) Macosko, an ex LPGA touring pro (8 year) and teaching pro in the San Antonio Texas area. She recognized how it could help me since I have had both hips and the left knee replaced and needed to change from a one plane swing. She referred me to his website over a year ago and I have been working on the swing ever since. I am 77 years old and convinced that the PPGS will give me many more years of good golf.

Bob M

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Bob,

Your testimony is a good one for us younger (56) but starting to feel the wear and tear of an active life. I want to be alive and swinging at 77 too and know that Surge's method is the way. Thanks for your comments. We hope you feel free to continue to contribute here on our blog. The more questions and observations we each give the better chance we all have of getting things right.

A Fellow Bob

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Just a tip from some of my own swings lately.

I had become a little lazy with posture and my ball striking wasn't what it should be.

After experimenting around in between these ridiculous never-ending winter vortexes I figured out that my knees had become too straight at address. As soon as I flexed them just a little bit more I started hitting the ball very well.

May not mean a thing to anybody else but if you get in a slump it's worth looking at.

P.S. My legs are ridiculously long for my height anyway. ;-)
Great for running fast but not so much for golf.

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Steve,
Thanks for the tip. I am re-vamping my whole approach to the swing this year and knees are certainly a big part of that. You all have had some crazy weather back east including a bit of an icy, snowy freeze in the South.
As for the knees, they will be a big part of my re-learning to safely and effectively limit and stablize my my lower body and lumbar region and keep me in the alley. I am going to avoid worrying about 280 yard drives and focus on accuracy this year.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Amazing how one little thing that's almost unnoticeable can throw things off.

I got my wife to look at my stance and told her I was going to get in two different stances and see if she could see any difference. She said she couldn't. Then when I told her what I was doing and had her watch again she said not much. So evidently it's enough for me to feel but not enough to be very evident to somebody watching.

I did notice right away that my head stayed more still to impact than it ever had before without even thinking about it.

Jury is still out on power loss or gain until the weather gets better. No way to tell when it's windy and cold.