Nothing gets a round going like a great drive off the first tee right into the middle of the fairway. But, hitting your second shot from the short grass doesn't do much good if you're topping the ball. That's what has been happening to Rose West, who sent in a question asking what could be causing her to be topping the ball from the fairway.
I am okay on the tee, but often top the ball in the fairway. Help please!! What am I doing to cause this?
Okay Rose, you say that you're topping the ball from the fairway but you don't specify which club, so I'll assume you're having trouble with all your clubs. If you're hitting on top of the ball, there's a few things that could be causing it. I always go back to "the setup determines the motion," so the first problem could be with your alignment.
Anytime you have to try and open your shoulders up or get out of the way quicker because of having poor alignment, you essentially move forward and can top the ball. Because you are trying to get to the point where you can feel like you're swinging down the line, you're adjusting in the middle of your swing which causes too much movement and you will hit poor shots all day long.
You might also be over turning. Remember, for every action there's an opposite and equal reaction so again you're putting yourself in a difficult position to swing down the line because you're having to come over the top to get the club back to the ball.
Comments
PPGS
Surg: I have played golf for 74 years which will give you an idea of my age. I first tee'd it up in 1938 on a 9 hole course in Long Beach, CA. During those years I have been from a very good player to adequate. I have been through every type of golf swing from "square to square" to Jim Hardy's single and double planes. I began working with your vertical concept about 2-3 years ago and liked the program and purchased several of your videos. A year ago we decided to sell our home and dropped out of our CC. I haven't played in almost a year as we were moving etc. Yesterday I went out on the Sun City Roseville, Sierra PInes 9 hole course. This is the best 9 hole course I have seen, designed by Billy Casper and no push-over. I shot 43 with one 7 on a 4 par. Every shot was right on line and my only problem was distance control-hitting shots both too long or short. Now to top the story I bought the video about Harvey Ward's putting technique and was amazed. I made some tough putts and rimmed the cup on 2 holes that could have gone in. This whole day was accomplished without a moment on the practice tee prior to the game, or that year of non-play, and about 15 minutes on the putting green. Thanks to you for so many great concepts!!!! Deno, Deane A. Johnson (Note the first name and I had it before Deane Beman)
Wow, gotta be close to 90
Deno, amazing that you're still able to play. 43 for nine and it wasn't your best. Way to go. You're an inspiration.
Training Videos
I have been receiving your Training Videos for several months & find them extremely helpful. About 2-3 weeks ago I found that although I could open your emails & hear the instructions the video itself was blurred or out of focus. Can you assist with this problem? Has any one else advised of a similar problem?
Thanks,
Craig Thurston.
Blurry videos
I don't have much of an answer for you other than to suggest playing the video directly off of U-Tube and making sure your flash player is updated.
I have had much more trouble playing videos of any kind on Firefox lately so I have been mostly using IE. No problem with blurriness though, just sometimes refuses to load on Firefox.
It will probably be a guessing game to pinpoint the problem and you can get some things to try by doing a few Google searches, typing in something like "Video playing blurry".
And...
Most of us here in the SS camp use nothing but Google Chrome. Even though SS.com is almost a 100% Mac shop we use Chrome - none of us like Safari that much either. Firefox is the second browser I will use. I hate IE with a passion - it's nickname: Internet Exploder.
Reply to Avoid Topping shots from the Fairway
Dear Surge,
I have been watching your instructions for a while now and my golf has definitely improved. I watched this session and I had to write. I hit pretty good drives and I VERY rarely top the ball. I DO however, hit it fat most of the time. Even though I am conscious of of my propensity to chuck it, I try to focus on my set up, posture stance, you name it, I try to to as you instruct and then, CHUCK! I am very frustrated about this. I even try to put the back a little back in my stance!
Thanks,
Al
those chunks
If you go to the top right of this page you will see a search box . Type in chunks and see what comes up. You could be getting ahead of the ball, or hitting off the back foot. Have you tried to shorten your back swing a smidgen ?
Those chunks
Russty, I Have not tried shortening my back swing. I'll try that one tomorrow. Thanks!
Thanks Surge, I for sure
Thanks Surge, I for sure have done all of the bad swings you showed us!!! Boy, it is so hard to all things together, but, I keep trying! Do we ever stop trying to do the right things?? Do we ever get it all right? All I need to do is stay in my line......
Thanks for all of your help!!!
Hi Don
I really appreciate your ideas and insight into the "problems" we all have with our golf swing. With that having been said, I am really surprised that you didn't mention the #1 reason for topped shots....which to me is the most obvious...and that is LIFTING your head up (peeking) at point of impact. That is what so many people do (I'm guilty occasionally) and the primary reason for topped shots. Thanks as always Surge for all your help!!!!
lifting the head
I see this all the time. Nearly 100% of head lifting is caused by the head bent over so the ball is in the center of the eyes' vision. When the head is lifted and the eyes look down from the normal center of vision then the shoulders are able to turn properly. When the head is too low the golfer needs to raise up in order to let the shoulders move properly through the hitting area.
Lifting the head and Body
I tend to agree with you SGW. Another area where I can often top the ball, is by coming up and out of my spine angle too quickly, when I try to kill it. I'm in the fairway, I know I can't get there, I fully intend on a nice smooth lay up swing, BUT, somewhere from take away to contact my primitive brain takes over and says kill it. All kinds of bad things can and do happen when this monster gets out of its cage. It's like a glitch in the matrix.
Liftin' and Killin' it
Terry - thanks for the observation. Completely agree that when those ugly thoughts come in that the body lifts - and we either top (or chunk if you bend over to compensate). One antidote I work on is calculating the right club AND telling myself that a normal swing will get me there. This seems to help but not 100% - of you know how to kill that monster please let me know. Down the middle!
Peeking
Although he has never come out and said it directly, just reading between the lines for the past few years I don't think Surge puts much stock in the old standard "you peeked" thing (and it is overused).
I think that excuse for bad shots is pretty much overused myself. Hard to hit a bad shot without at least one person in the group saying it and sometimes it's a uniform chorus "Peeked". Ha ha!
Good thing they didn't play with Annika or they would have lost their voice by the end of the round. ;-)
Of course we can get carried away with looking up but as long as I am not seeing airplanes before hitting the ball everything is OK.
https://swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/releasing-your-head-early-forward-upswing
Not peeking, but changing the spine angle
As Steve points out, Surge has never put any stock in the "looked up early" explanation. The problem is if the person doesn't maintain the spine angle through impact. It's perfectly possible to turn the head toward the target without altering the spine angle, as Annika does and a number of other players. Just look at the photos of Surge and you'll see that his head is turning down the target line right through impact without ever changing the spine angle. In fact, he wants us to release as fully as possible through impact. People trying too hard to keep their head still by trying to see the divot or whatever are losing power and control.
FireFox
Several months ago you recommended Firefox for the easy down-loader. I have been using it to view and download ever since with no problems to report. The videos are always loud and clear. For most other, I also prefer Chrome and agree that IE9 sucks to the power of 9x.
Al: Have you tried clicking on the Green, Clicking Here, located at the very bottom of the video commentary. It may help with your viewing problems.
Firefox
For a few weeks there seems to be a slight problem with the latest versions of Firefox and Adobe flash player. It doesn't always show up and sometimes works fine but a google search of "videos not playing on Firefox" shows quite a few have the problem.
http://forums.adobe.com/message/4552346
I just started watching U-Tube videos on IE (since it was already on my computer and handy). Been doing that for a week or so but it seems now that watching on Firefox is back to normal (for now anyway). My internet speed is borderline anyway so any little problem is probably magnified.
BTW for some reason the videos straight from this site seem to load more consistently than from U-Tube. I don't know if that's possible but that's how it seems.
Topping shots from the fairway
Don, Thanks for today's daily on why we top shots. Very appropriate for me lately, as I have been very inconsistent with my second shots. I get into trouble when I'm moving around too much, and also when on a tight lie in the fairway, and I try to pick the ball off the turf by swinging up and picking up with my forward shoulder. In fact yesterday I plunked 2 balls into the pond off the fairway while using my hybrid. AWFUL. However, I did regain my composure and manage to par 3 of the next 4, and finish with some of my dignity. I've been using your method for about 4 years now, and I must say it has made my game much more enjoyable, and consistent. I really enjoy your lessons, and want to thank you for your efforts . Your methods and techniques have allowed me to play this game much better than I ever thought possible. Thanks again, Mike
Grip pressure
I have found it difficult to get the proper grip pressure. I know that you should not feel tightness in the forearms and wrists. Lately I started placing my hands on the club in an neutral fashion, then slightly rotating my hands together. I have hit my best shots when doing this. Any advice?
Okay, off subject but would love.......
to get your thoughts.....
Friends of PPGS blog, I know many of you suffer from the aches and pains of dare I say wear and tear of aging. As I like say it is just evidence of all the years of "fun" I've had. Better to wear out than rust out. Or as the rocker sang, 'better to burn out than to fade away.' Any how I got the results on my right shoulder MRI and though it seems surgery is not recommended yet there are multiple 'ituses' along with fraying, spurring and some partial tears in rotator cuff muscles. I have constant discomfort and pain that varies 24 hours a day from moderate to strong. I've done and continue to apply many of the typical therapies including ice and heat, over the counter pain/inflammation relief, herbs and supplements that are recommended as anti inflammatory along with mild exercise, massage and regular stretching.
Of course I'd like to avoid surgery but it may happen some day I don't know.
those out there who ave delt with a similar challenge, was (is) there something you'd suggest as a possible option?
Aside from limiting my golf, it makes it painful and difficult to work.
Any thoughts?
Aches and Pains
You have my sympathy Robert. I have occasionally had mild right shoulder pain, but nothing in your category. I have had, hand, feet, knee, and back pain in the constant moderate pain category. Short of surgery, what has helped me the most in all areas was the steroid injections. I did eventually still need the hand, foot, and knee surgeries but have avoided the back surgery for several years now, relatively pain free by following the recommendations in this book. Just like the old joke. I told my doctor it hurts when I do this, and he said Stop doing it.
http://www.amazon.com/Overcome-Neck-Back-Pain-Laughlin/dp/0684852527/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1351784306&sr=1-1...
As you already know, a strong need for full healing is the very limited activity of those things which aggravate the effected area. You may have to stop the golf for several months to achieve real healing.
Pain in my ............
Terry,
Not surprised to hear from you knowing how much you've been through. Yes I too have had the steroid injections for my shoulders. After my last round of shots(did it three times over the last 6 years) my osteopath suggested the mri as the shots were becoming ineffective and as you know they have some bad side effects. I went through a similar pattern with my hands and trigger fingers. Shots followed by a while of relief followed by more shots and more temporary relief followed by surgery on my hands. It seems like surgery may ultimately be the answer for my shoulder(s) too.
If anyone has any additional thoughts I am listening.
Thanks Terry. BTW, have you noticed Surge and his team have us receiving dailies - daily now again. I have been distracted by life outside golf and unable to keep up. It is great to see the blog gaining steam again and roaring with life. I have been reading and watching though not always commenting as much as previously. I'm still here and supportive, just a bit quieter:)
Hope you're well.
Try this Robert
I mentioned this before:A few weeks before leaving China, I couldn't lift either hand up high enough to comb my hair, shave or brush my teeth. I had a ten visits to a Chinese Traditional Medicine Hospital in Dalian, China. 10 treatments with Acupuncture, "Cupping" and exercising both shoulders. One had been operated on already years ago and started to be a pain in the derierre. The other my left shoulder started to give me grief too. Well after those treatments finished, I have not looked back.No anti-inflammatory drugs at all [was prescribed them on a long term basis and was on them for many years.None now for years. If I thump the turf I sometimes get grief later.Usually a trapped nerve, with all that entails. A quick "Cupping" by my wife on my shoulders [and sometimes my shoulder blades] and I am back to normal almost immediately. I have bruises on the shoulders,from the cupping, which don't hurt and I can swing with the best of them.
Now this is from an ex-Medic in two armies, brought up on western medical practices. My motto [as in golf], has always been, "If it works use it, if it doesn't don't". Simple. The beauty of "Cupping" alone, is that you can administer it to yourself. Check e-Bay for a set. Not expensive and readily available. My wife broke the vacuum 'gun' on ours a couple of weeks ago. Had it fixed pro-tem and had another one sent from China. I could have bought one here much cheaper. I couldn't believe how numerous and cheap they were compared to postage from China!Robert I strongly advise having it done professionally by a Chinese Traditional Medicine practitioner and see the results. That way you will know exactly where to apply the 'cups'. Each cup has a non return valve incorporated in it. No more lighted taper in a glass bowl. So it is simple to use.
As per usual, now I have a back up, I have only needed it once hahaha. Good Luck Robert, with whatever you decide. DH
Great suggestions DH and Thanks!
DH Brilliant!
Yes, Chinese medicine and methods such as cupping and acupressure and acupressure have much merit. Guess what? I have a cupping set and will dust it off and start using it soon again by your inspiration. Actually we have acupuncturists here in my area and I need to look one up too and soon. Actually used the cupping set about one year ago and did not stick with it long enough to get lasting results. Was using it briefly but before my current accelerated shoulder pains. I will break it out and give it a go. You have awoken me from my forgetful stupor:)
You've given me a brave and inspiring response DH and I deeply appreciate it long with the other helpful thoughts from our blogging family.
I'll keep you and the rest of the Surge nation posted on my results over the next few weeks.
Agree with DH for pain relief
It seems a shame that Western medical practices don't use what has worked for millenniums in the Eastern world.
Along with DH's comments I would suggest rolfing and chiropractering.
the latter cures almost all my nagging problems with muscle and joint pain.
Appreciated
Thanks SGW. I knew I would get a few thoughtful responses. Body works such as massage modalities are among my beliefs and practices and shall be a part of the recovery. Thanks for your input.
Another thing that can't hurt
Assuming you're not allergic, of course, I have a friend who was just in town who's been treating her chronic arthritis and other aches of aging by adding a small sprinkle of cayenne pepper to everything she eats. Not enough to really affect the taste, but it keeps a certain level of capsicum flowing through the system that helps alleviate the swelling which leads to all the other issues. I haven't particularly tried that myself, though I do tend to already eat a pretty spiced-up diet. I have a Thai sister-in-law and I like to make foods that she wouldn't find bland.
Spicy I am
Thanks Robert. Yes, Cayenne and all forms of hot peppers are really good for us, joints and in other ways. I do use a fair amount of cayenne and have even grown fresh cayenne peppers in my backyard. this year I have serrano, jalepenos, thia and habanero. Last year I grew tabasco too. I make a mean salsa that's really tasty. In addition to peppers I have other anti inflamatories in my diet and that I supplement with including garlic, ginger and turmeric.
So yes I do incorporate capsicum rich peppers and other foods along with avoiding foods that lend toward inflammation.
BTW, something a little extreme but powerful if one gets a common cold is too stir in a couple of big teaspoons of cayenne pepper powder into a glass of water and bottoms up. Aside from causing lots of bad stuff to drain away from your chest and head it slams the body with tons of vitamin C.
Great stuff
Thank you Surge for explaining how many things could go wrong on ball alignment and how many things could make one top the ball.
Great stuff and Thank you again.
Robert Meade & Shoulder Problems
You took the time to post to my comments on the Surg & the Vertical Swing so I will give you my observations on shoulder surgery. You are correct in putting off surgery for AS LONG AS POSSIBLE!! The shoulder is probably one of the poorest joints in the human body. I have had two relatives that have shoulder surgery or replacement and neither has been totally successful. The older (80) relative still has pain and has gone thru all kinds of physical therapy, but?? The younger one (59) has been thru the P.T. and additional surgery to remove scar tissue. The pain is gone, but he cannot raise his right arm above shoulder height and the Dr. says that is all he can do. I might suggest a trial at a "very competent" Chiropractor who specializes in joints. I was totally surprised by the help one gave me on my right knee which hurt so bad over the last 3 years that I was back looking at surgery. I am almost totally without pain after 2-3 adjustments. Watch out for the "hacks" though.
Deno
Thanks
Deno,
Thanks for your thoughts. I will consider all suggestions. That's one good thing about the Surge Nation, we are a big family and can give each other a lot of experience related and unrelated directly to golf. Of course my main goal. being a golf nut is to be able to golf into the twilight zone, preferably dieing on the links! Thanks for your suggestion(s).
WHY WHY WHY
HELP HELP HELP
Can anyone explain to me why at 69 years of age “I can only hit a 9 iron about 80 yards on the fly? That also goes for the rest of my clubs i.e. 5i = 140, 6i = 130, 7i = 120. I won’t even talk about driver, 3 wood and so on…
The other thing is why at the range or doom I can hit off the matt great but put me on the course I either chunk (hit behind ball) or tops the ball and that goes for most of the time.
My clubs are custom made by a so call certified Surge fitter.
Regards a frustrated Surge follower...
Steve
Why little distance?
Impossible to know why you are getting little distance, or if that's just how far you are capable of hitting those clubs, other than to say that to hit it farther there are really only 3 factors.
1. Swing speed through impact.
2. Solid hits on the sweet spot.
3. Direction of travel and angle of clubface through impact.
There are hundreds of reasons any one of those 3 factors could be off.
On hitting off of mats: When hitting off of a mat we can get away with very sub par ball striking and basically hit every shot a little bit fat with very nice results (and never even realize we are hitting it fat). Then when we get on the course we find out that what we thought were good shots were really chunks. Then we start trying to correct the chunks and start topping the ball, cutting across the ball, or even shanking the ball. The softer the ground the worse it is.
I am sure if you sent a video to one of the instructors for an on-line lesson they could help you at least know what to work on, and what's likely going wrong.
P.S. If I had to take a very wild guess I would guess that you are not transferring your weight to the front and hanging back. Probably swinging at the ball from the top instead of lettting the club fall butt end first toward the toe line and swinging up to the finish, brushing the ground along the way.
Accordion and Pre Load Heavy Right (PLHR)
Sorry guy’s one last question.
On the set up do you (PLHR) at the beginning – middle – or end of the accordion down?
Regards…
Steve
Pre means Pre
Good question Steve. Here's your answer. Be sure and read the text below the video in this reference. There in Surge says that after we accordion down we make sure we are PLHR.
https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/accordion-setup-dynamic-balance
In reality it seems that after a while it becomes second nature and it feels to me to be one move. It is a process though and I recommend you follow it until it becomes more automatic and natural. If your like most of us (and all golfers pro or hacker) you will need to review these and all fundamentals of the set up periodically. It's easy to get off track.
A reminder; BUY the basic lesson videos if you do not yet have them . And too, utilize the search function (top above right) to find tutorials on every question known to golf including at least 6 that have covered points on the accordion effect.
Club AND Ball
First - Cowboy01 – Robert Meade and Steve Smith thank you I will do the online lesson and Cowboy01 (“what the hell is a stone (I know it’s an English term for weight”) my scale doesn’t show stones just ugly pounds. However I do get the drift.
FYI: I put the ball in the center of my stance (Sand W – 5 irons). If put the ball 1 ball width forward (using 5 and 6) in my stance I will top it. Also If I put the ball 1 ball width forward in my stance with the 3 wood and my hybrids (I have 4 a 1, 3, 4, 5), I seem to do ok. The 1 is a 15.5 degree Cleveland Mashie. Yes I know I can only use 14 so I do decide which ones to take on the course.
Ok, here is another question. When you line up with the ball do you center your body in line with the center of the ball, back edge of the ball or front edge of the ball?
Now: Where do you put the club face under the ball or the back edge of the ball?
One final (maybe) thing. I think going to the doom (indoor driving range) and taking every club you have is “NOT WISE” – so I normally take 4. My question is if I were to take 1 or 2 clubs what would you suggest. Please keep in mind I want to work on my swing.
Regards...
A Real Duffer...
Steve
Stone
There's 14 pounds in a stone. Don't ask me why. The same reason there's 16 ounces in a pound. I have enough trouble with kilograms. Current weight is
100 kg = 15.747 stone =220.458 pounds and counting