A Change In Grip Style Can Change Your Shot Shape

I do not disagree at all.
But wouldn't flat to bowing the wrist be squaring or closing the club face and cupping open the club face at impact ? We may talking the same thing just different verbiage.

We are talking left to right - right to left not up and down correct.

Makes for good conversation though.

Hi Bruce,

Without seeing your swing, it would be really hard to diagnose and direct you, though you should pick up the video series "Working The Ball" to really learn the techniques for hitting draws and intentional fades with this swing.
That said, my first guess as to why you've gone from a draw to a fade with the switch is that you're turning your shoulders too quickly in the transition from BUS to FUS, thus casting the club out past the aiming line and swinging out-to-in through impact. Also, if you haven't checked the length of your clubs, it's entirely likely that your driver and possibly other woods are too long for you to properly swing vertically. The only way to get clubs that are too long back to impact with this swing without smacking the ground would be to cast them out past the aiming line.

Yes. For clarity, cupping is moving the backhand side closer to the forearm, bowing is moving the palm side toward the forearm, and cocking is moving the thumb side toward the forearm. Cocking will also naturally lead to some cupping, just based on the way the wrist is built, and is another reason why actively cocking the wrist is a bad thing.

Interesting topic, Surge. I learned the interlocking grip when I first took up the game and have tried the overlap and baseball grip.. I started having problems with my right pinkie in the beginning, no doubt because I squeezed the grip too tightly. I went to a baseball grip and that relieved the pain and gave me decent results for a number of years.
About 6 months ago I started to develope trigger finger like symptoms ( middle finger left hand and pinkie right hand ) so I backed off a bit on grip pressure and went to an overlap grip to ease pressure on my pinkie. Left hand is better, but right hand ring finger started with the same problem.
I've now gone back to a baseball grip about 2 weeks ago and continued with lighter grip pressure and so far so good. I've had decent results with all 3 grips, but seem to have better control with the baseball grip. As you've said it ultimately is about feel and comes down to whichever works best for each of us.

Steve, the video he took was down the line and I hung back on both shots. It's a problem I fight constantly. My thought is I need to get into a narower stance and not preload as much.
I found I get through the ball better and follow thru in the FUS much better when I set up with what feels more like 50-50. It's much easier to let the club freefall off the top of the BUS.
I'm kinda caught in the middle at the moment. The guy that videoed my swing thinks I'm giving up 20-30 yards on my drives and I think he's right. So it's back to the drawing board and basics. The answer is there, now to find it.

You're probably right. I misattribute quotes all the time. :)

Also makes me think about that politician who said the SEAL was lucky when he took out those three Somali pirates with three bullets. Friends of mine in that line of work commented that if it had taken him a fourth bullet, he'd have never lived it down. The only luck involved was the bad luck of those pirates to screw with the wrong people.

Don't you just hate it when a "pop-up" thunderstorm washes out what seems to be the best golfing round of your life?
Most of you remember my back-sliding video of a few weeks back, and thank you all for your feedback, I feel as though I've gotten the swing back on track.
I do have to really use more outward pressure than one would think to keep that left knee in check but it is working well. I also "feel" as I'm more upright at set-up, getting my knees more under me than in was evident in the video clip.I bend a bit more from the hips now than then previously,seems to be working fine. I hope to find evidence in my next video that all this feeling is true, to me it now seems as if I have a more rock on a string swing.If I weren't feeling the weight shifting to my left foot(and staying there,Wiz), I wouldn't think I was using my body at all.
So, I haven't hit a ball in two weeks due to this,our only, apprentice class but I was able to get out early this afternoon.I checked the radar and the weather seemed well south and I mean well south.Came home, grabbed a sandwich & clubs and drove to Cumberland.I hurriedly hit a few floaters into the lake to loosen up and hit the 1st tee. Beautiful cut to the middle of the fairway using the interlocking grip which I just recently went back to.Made a mess of the hole hitting a 45 yard pitch,I bladed it from a downhill lie and ended up with a snowman after dismal putting.
To wrap this up, that was my worst hole & shot of the day.I made it through 7 holes before they blew the horn to clear the course. At that point I had gone 6/6 FIR, 4/7 GIR and barring falling on my face on the last two of the side( both ranked high on the card) would've been in the low 40s for the nine.The putter was coming back around as well. I had a nice streak of pars before the lightning suspended play.
Until next time, F&G

First, what good players have a bowed left wrist at impact? The left wrist should be maintained as flat as possible through impact, no matter what swing theory you subscribe to. Second, the construction of the clubs is such that the shaft is set forward of the club head, so your hands will naturally lead it, by varying amounts based on the particular club you're hitting.

Yes I have read it all and use it . I personally do not worry about that position it happens naturally if you are performing the swing properly.

To me the left flat wrist are in this case slightly bowed wrist towards the target is correct and cupping the wrist would be having the wrist cupped would be away from the target or the knuckles facing the target IMM.

Think we are all on the same page just a verbiage thing.

Since we are discussing various grips. Those who have or are switching around due to possible pain or hand discomfort, please keep in mind the actual grip and possible changes for less hand pain or discomfort. I switched a long time back to the Jumbo Chamois
http://www.golfsmith.com/produ... which I highly recommend, but there are a variety of jumbo, mid size and arthritic grips which actually do lower hand discomfort. I have also started using the Sensicore vibration dampers, which offer additional hand comfort. They are simple to install by anyone who changes their own grips. They simply slide into the butt end of the shaft to a 7" dept. I kind of twist mine as they go in for a better/easier insert, then just use a dowel rod to push them to the proper 7" dept. Another thing to consider for those with steel shafts is the change to graphite which is gentler on the hands. With the big three, Graphite shafts, Jumbo grips, and vibration damper inserts, your hands will thank you, just like mine do.
http://www.golfsmith.com/searc...

Hammer,There has been at least a half a dozen discussions on flaring the feet and alignment. First, if it is only a little amount of flare you can adjust accordingly until the toes are both on the line (be it invisible or done with an alignment stick or club), secondly if the front foot flare becomes too extreme (past 45*) then the toes may actually need to be an inch or so behind the footline. Thirdly, be sure and use experience and common sense based on your most consistent results, ie, if you are hitting them left or right of the target,ect. Finally, remember we are all built a little different and have varying degrees of flexibility and skill, so each will do best with differing degrees of foot flare. Additionally, many have found that one of the physical advantages of the flaring of both feet is less stress and strain on the ankles,knees, and forward hip (maybe both hips will benifit) during the swing.(not that any of us are getting old and stiff, ha ha). For further understanding please use the 'seach' box found in the right column. It is very under utilized and can lead you to hundreds of articles and dailes from the past 4 years on every golf question known and answered. View the example I found for you below from an easy search that you can use any time.http://www.swingsurgeon.com/DailyVide...

Very true,Robert. We have to work with what God gives us
I ran into a guy at the course today who can talk swing techniques all day. Solid ball striker and about a 3/4 BUS, but into the SBG a bit. Very smooth swing and nice tempo. He videoed a couple of my drives and sent them to me. Very scary stuff. I'm still trying to find something I did right...lol. Oh yeah, they were both in the center of the fairway, but based on the swing It sure beats me how it happened. Not sure if I should just laugh myself silly or throw up.
I gave him Surge's website to check out. Can't wait to hear his reaction.

1956 issue of Golf Digest, Hogan wrote, "I've noticed one thing that all
good golfers do and all bad golfers do not. The good ones have their
left wrist leading at impact. It seems a small thing, but I've found it
to be universally true. At impact the left wrist of a good player is
slightly convex, while that of a poor player is generally concave."

Yeah, this whole separated by a common language thing. ;-)

I agree with the preload, Steve. I think my problem may be more the fact that my stance has gotten too wide. m I took a few swings in the backyard with my stance narrowed up and it sure makes it much easier to get to my left side. We shall see.

Gotta do what we gotta do to play golf Lynn! I started with the interlocking as I learned based on Jack N. and my dear ol' Dad. Later I switched to the overlap and have stayed with it till now. But I too would use the tenn finger if I thought it would help and may do so some day as arthritis and tendonitis dictate.

Wow Booger, that's some great ball striking. Guess you need to be thankful for the storm and assume that a bright sunny day may or may not have yielded such a nice streak of good play for those 6 holes :) I'm a glass half full guy, especially when it comes to whether. We don't get much here in Las Vegas but lots of wind for sure. If there is wind I look forward to it because I'm a good wing player (usually). Think it makes me focus more and keeps my swing even more compact and 3/4's. I always end up wondering why I don't play that compact with no wind. I also like rainy days (which are rare here but common when I lived in a rain forest on the north coast of Oregon). Of course I normally play lift and d clean on those days. Good to here about your game improvements and aside from lightning, never let the whether slow you down :)

It's a bit difficult to argue with a 56 year old article from a golf god, because no matter what I say, you likely won't care. However, I agree with Hogan that the lead wrist must not break down prior to impact. And most likely his view of "slightly convex" is not all that different from my statement of "as flat as possible." The lead wrist must remain firm through impact. By the nature of the construction of the clubs, that will mean that your hands are leading the club head at impact. If the lead wrist is allowed to break prior to impact, you end up with a floppy scoop that kills the power and increases the loft of the club and generally looks like trying to toss a dead duck in the air and hope it will fly.

So you should order a bunch of sets of Chamois grips and sell them to the guys in your group for $8-$10 a grip. ;-)

http://golftipsandquips.blogsp... Gary Player

Hi to all the Surgite Clan from a very,very wet Wellington New Zealand. A sad day as it is reported 3 more Kiwis were killed in Afghanistan : - (
Where has the time gone? Our past few months have been tumultuous in so many ways.Suffice it to say, we are now beginning to see light at the end of the tunnel : - ]
Family [at both ends of the earth] took most of our focus.Some very good, some very bad. Now everything appears to be on an even keel.Whew!
Travel, Family and changes. Changed Golf Clubs[as in the place where we play] and with certain parts of my raddled old carcass complaining at the most inopportune times, golf was a real struggle for a while[ sun just come out, wowwweee, where have you been hiding?]. Now getting back into the swing of things on the course,when the weather allows, which isn't very often at the moment,ie, the first 7holes on the course are mountain goat territory hahaha! when wet, quite a challenge. We enjoy the course immensely, a good challenge. The last time we played about a week ago, I slipped on a slight upslope. Feet right out from under me. Luckily the same sloppy ground cushioned my fall. All I ended up with was a very muddy right fist, used to cushion my fall. Then 5 holes further on I broke my favourite club of the moment, my 24deg Rescue club under freakish circumstances : - ( Still mourning hahahaha!
With luck I will get some swing practice in on the rear deck golf mat after finishing this tome.
It has not been to ugly, at least I have been swinging between showers for a while. Sometimes totalling 2 hours a day. Experimenting with some tips and grips etc. On the course my irons have come good and with the Rescue missing, the 4HL and 5HL irons and the 5w saved the day. The short irons nothing short of magic : - ]
The past couple of days I found a neat way of ensuring the bump etc starts and up to the T finish much better. It has given me the confidence to whip the club through much quicker through the impact area to the FUS.
On the grip. Tried the suggested interlocking grip, with good results with the irons. The woods not so good at all? Strange. BTW had the r7/3w/5w's shortened and re-gripped. Love 'em, compared to previously. Now for a funny thing. Remember the finger chopping exercise I had with the cleaver [Dadao] in China? Well that made me use a REVERSE overlapping grip, to keep the lacerated pinkie out of the way.Well I tried that with the woods! HELLLLLLLO! Absolutely stunned by the results. The grip feels much more compact and feels like one unit. Perhaps this grip keeps my smaller fingers together, who knows, but I intend to give it a try on the course the next time we manage to escape the weather imposed 'house arrest'! hahaha.
Robert Meade will be familiar with the term 'Duputyren's Contracture'. Well that has raised it's ugly head of late, but I have managed with heat treatment and some massage to make it behave. So physically we are ready to rock and roll.Yeeha!
Enough for a first missive in a while. Will nip out and have a quick swing session now while I can ; - )
My greetings to the entire Surge Clan, Surge,DJ,Doc, Steve, RobertF,Robert Meade,RR2,Dick Lee,Lynn42,TMedley, boogm and the rest of those real golfers who have embraced the PPGS concept. Missed you all more than you will ever know. My Ball hound Chinese Chef Boss, is keeping me on track bless her.
On that note. God Bless you all, from a dedicated Surgite. Dragonhead in Wettington, Oooops Wellington New Zealand.

Not arguing or disputing. Just saying.

A bowed left wrist, also called a
supinated wrist, in a golf swing describes the ideal position at impact,
at least according to most golf instructors. The importance of a bowed
left wrist stems from the teachings of Ben Hogan, perhaps the finest
striker of the golf ball in the history of the sport. Hogan stressed
that the left wrist must be bowed at the moment of impact in order for
the club to be traveling on the target line and in order to achieve the
maximum amount of accuracy and distance.

How It Looks
Top
golf instructor Jim McLean writes that maintaining a hinge in your
wrist at impact -- another way to describe a bowed left wrist -- is the
key to hitting long and straight irons. McLean writes that you keep your
left wrist bowed through impact by rotating the big muscles in your
arms and shoulders through the downswing, rather than by trying to
manipulate your wrists. At impact, the knuckles of your left hand should
be facing the ground and the back of your left hand should be facing
the target and leading your wrists through the shot.

How It Feels Although
Lee Trevino's swing looked nothing like Hogan's, many of Trevino's
swing theories echoed those of Hogan. When he gave clinics, Trevino
would talk about the importance of feeling "like you are hitting the
ball with the back of your left hand." That's a fine description of how
it feels to have a bowed left hand at impact.
I agree with you flat to slightly convex at impact.

Agree on the more load the better. I find that if I fully pre-load left then there is only one way to go, forward. One of the only exceptions for me is off the tee into a strong wind when I'll stay level to slightly more weight forward. Same on a low punch shot.

That is the historically normal way of thinking on swing weight. I agree with Robert F.'s comment that swingweight changed by grip size and weight is not as important as other factors. Why? Personal experience. I play with the Jumbo Max grips and I felt no adverse effects of swing weight change but have benifited greatly from what are truely oversized grips. They make all other "oversized" seem tiny and I highly recommend all to give them a try weather you have hand issues or not.

Great to hear from you Dragonhead! Tumultuous lives have a way of overtaking us all. Sorry for the bad, happy for the good, and happiest of all to see that you're well and back with us.

many thanks - just viewed it and it answers all my questions

You must be-careful with the oversized grips as they will change the swing weight and feel of the club. The larger oversized grips can change the swing weights dramatically. I have seen iron swing weights go from D-2 down to a C-9 and drivers drop up to 4 swing weights which will alter the performance and feel of the club.

The ongoing wet is cramping my style too. Great to have you back on deck mate.

No arguing here just agreeing and offering in sight its mute point unless you flip your wrist through impact trying to get the ball airborne.

Very interesting. I've been using the overlap since I first learned to play, and I've never even managed to hit a shot when I try an interlocking grip. It just feels so weird in my hands. Maybe I should practice it more to see if I can use it for controlled shot-shaping like you, Surge.

Saw that. It's just tough. Brutal to have to come back tomorrow morning needing a birdie and an eagle to make the cut. Oh boy.... Looks like he's out of the Fed Ex this year. Hunting season may start early this fall.

Steve, I just went back and reviewed the video that Robet mentioned on foot flare. I tried a couple of things that may help.
By closing my rear foot down to less than 30 degrees and opening my front a bit more than 30 degrees I can preload heavy right and still get a good weight shift. Now I did this in the TV room without a club and used a narower stance than I have been using.
Surge mentioned in the video that there is latitude and it seems my shoulders and hips do stay square.
The acid test is Monday or Tuesday when I get back out.
Thanks for the help.

At the butt end--Each
1/2" is equal to 3 swing weights. Each swing weight is equal to
about 2gr. So, 1/2" is approximately 6gr.

5gr
weight at the butt end equals 1 swing weight. So, if you went from a 50 gr
grip to a 28 gr grip, you've added 4 swing weights. However, you did
not bring the MOI back up.

As stated by others the swing weight is often a variable which can be effected simply by gripping up and down on the club, however MOI is the main point to deal with. I would not worry too much about adding grip weight at the butt end, If anything, it will make the club feel lighter which is a benefit for most seniors.