If you've ever thought about getting professionally fitted for golf clubs, today's video might make your decision much easier. I'm going to read a couple different testimonials from Surgites who decided to improve their game by getting their own set of custom clubs.
I'm also going to discuss some changes I have made to my own set of clubs, such as new shafts and heads. I will also discuss the importance of alignment, regardless of how perfect your clubs fit.
I would like to sing the praises of PPGS club fitter, Bill Marshall, Lakeland, FL. What a pro, what a nice guy, what a great club fitter! I arrived by plane from San Antonio. The next day, Bill spent about 5 hours with me, checking my swing, giving me tips, taking measurements, trying out different types of shafts, club heads, grips, etc. Then with all the specs in hand, he made me a whole new set of clubs. And the cost was a lot less than I expected. Result? I am striking the ball more crisply than ever and scoring lower. Now I have a realistic chance of breaking into a single-digit handicap. And I am 72 years old! Thanks, Bill, for making me young again!"
Don McRee
Hi Surge,
Your comments about vision are very interesting. I assume there are other Surgites who are myopic and have a really hard time with alignment as I do. Any suggestions? Bill Owen from Ellensburg, WA, recently fitted me with new clubs, thanks for encouraging we Surgites to get a fitting. I traveled over 900 miles round trip by car and am so glad I did.
Best Regards,
Larry Hink
I hope that after today, anyone who has thought about contacting one of our PPGS Certified Club Fitters will do so. I promise you that it will make a big difference in your game.
Just click here to contact a fitter near you.
Keep it vertical!
The Surge
If you can't view the YouTube video above try CLICKING HERE. You must allow popups from this site for the link to work.
Comments
Club Fitting
I had a club fitting session with Doc Griffin last April, and he built me a new set of irons & hybrids. My golf buddies are amazed at how straight I am hitting the ball. My swing speed with my irons is so slow that Doc put women's shafts on them. Of course, my buddies tease me about my "pheromone" clubs, but I really like them and Doc did a tremendous job for me.
Club Fitting - Cost/Benefit
I haven't seen anyone mention what Doc or other PPGS club fitters charge for their services and equipment adjustments. I have never been to a club fitter because I have been afraid of the cost of the process. I don't put a lot of money out for my clubs so that I have money to play and practice (budgetary constraints, you know), so I have found bargains on quality equipment on ebay and Amazon. I can break 100 rather consistently with my non-fitted clubs. My driver goes 180-190 max. If a club fitting won't increase my driver distance by 50-60 yards, then the cost/benefit to club fitting may not be worth it. Or, if I went through the entire club-by-club fitting process - and paid whatever the price to do so - will that really make a difference between breaking 100 and breaking 90 (never broken 90 in my life)? I have told my wife and friends that I will retire from golf as soon as I break 90.
Put another way, what price glory??
Just asking! I appreciate the counsel on this topic. Jeff P.
Price
The price for a full fitting depends largely on what you may want and need in your clubs. When I got my driver from Doc through his long-distance driver fitting, it cost me $350 delivered. That's roughly the median price of a new driver from any of the name brands. It's not "K-Mart $150 for the full set including the bag" cheap, but it's also a lot better quality than those. :)
Club fitting and alignment
When I went to a local club fitter who analyzed my swing characteristics and provided custom fit clubs, my handicap dropped from a 17 to a 10. I was getting more distance and accuracy with the better fit clubs, the difference was like night-and-day; I knew I could no longer blame the club for an errant shot (although one could debate whether that's a benefit. ;) Cost was approximately the same as buying decent brand-name clubs retail (if I recall correctly it cost me $400 CDN for a set of three woods, and another $400 for the driver). My brother calls it the "Porsche" of drivers, because of how good it feels when he swings it, lol (he is about my size which I suppose explains why it feels good for him too).
In terms of the Alignment video, I've said it before and I'll mention it here again, I wish I had watched it along with all of the other "Fundamentals" videos when I first switched to PPGS, I have no doubt it would have prevented me from blaming a bad shot on good fundamentals and then experimenting with unecessary changes.
ToddN
Club Fitting
Todd, thanks for your thorough answer. $800 would definitely scare me off. That would be 20 rounds of golf for a year for me (how I wish I could play 20 times in a year). Decisions! Decisions!
I do applaud you for your significant drop in handicap due to your club fitting. Outstanding!!!
No problem
No problem .. understood, we all have priorities. Just remember, when you decide it’s time to retire from golf, spend the money on the fitting and you’ll break 90 in no time. :)
Club Fitting
How "Fitting" a topic! Last year I did a long distant club fitting with Doc Griffin.
Driver, 5 wood, 6 hybrid and irons 7-PW. All "feel" great.
Last week I reached out to Doc inquiring about a new set of irons. I explained I loved the feel and look of my irons. Plus I hit them well!
Were A set of Blades right for me? Doc said no.
Asked if my current irons had a newer model for 2013. Doc said yes.
Asked Doc the cost of building an 8 iron to test. Same specs as my current 8 iron.
Doc gave me a price, but to my amazement stated "I do not understand the expenditure without any added benefit".
I interpreted this to mean why spend money on new clubs when my current set work just fine.
Also proves that Doc Griffin is a top class act!
He could of encouraged me to trade up and spend x dollars on a new set of irons I do not need!
Thanks again Doc for keeping me leveled headed!
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.....
Phillip
No need to spend
I had a similar experience, with my irons my local club fitter said the current set I had were very close to the spec I needed so he didn't see a need to change them.
Cost
JK,
Why be afraid? Doc or any of the other fitters are like any other upright business people.
Just contact them and ask how much their fittings are. If it is more than you choose to spend they will be fine with you checking I'm sure. It varies between individual fitters as they are independent business men. It would also depend on the clubs selected and what all you choose to do. Starting with the driver only would be a good idea. However if you are hoping to jump from 190 to 240 yards don't bother. That's an extreme dream my friend. A gain of 15-20 yards would be great with more fairways and less condos and forest. Reasonable expectations. Personally I think my whole bag fitting helped me a lot.
clubs and swing
JK,
Gave your question more thought. It really comes down to not only money but your desire to improve. I think there should be no doubt that it is a combination of a good swing AND the right tools. You will notice a trend that it is primarily those that are determined to eliminate the tools as a factor for poor results that get a fitting done. For them it is of great value. For others they may feel that fitting will have minimal benefit for there once a week game that has them with scores in the mid 90's. Those that have gotten fit will often tell you that lower scores were again a combination of applied practice of a better swing and clubs that fit them. I am among that group. My scores before being fit and educated as to the advantages of fit clubs (along with following Surge and the PPGS) were in the high 80's. Now I average around 80-83 with some good putting and chipping days getting me under 80. I shot my first even par for nine this year. I had several rounds under 80. Clubs? I would give my clubs about a quarter of the credit and Surge about 3/4's. In spite of the cost was that valuable enough for the expense? Yes. During and since the fitting I have continued to study why and how clubs can make a difference. for a better over all understanding I highly recommend Tom Wishon's "Search for the Perfect golf clubs". Very affordable on Amazon.com.
Here's another thought. If funds are your biggest concern you should at least get the minimum done which is getting your lofts and lies checked and adjusted. There is a reason most golfers have one or two clubs they can never hit straight without a lot of compensations, their lies are too flat or too upright. In most cases slicers/pushers have lies that are several degrees too flat. Likely for under $50.00 you could have a good fitter check and adjust your clubs. I have given this simple advice many times and still wonder how many ever (if ever) have this done. This is cheap and absolutely will make a huge difference. Lofts? Gaping our clubs can also help a lot. Normally your fitter will do both at the same time. Whether you shoot in the 70's or 100's this is a no brainer choice.
Reply to Robert
Robert, you have responded very eloquently and appropriately. It's no different than when considering what piano to buy. You get once type of quality for $2000 and a whole other (higher) quality for $6000-$10,000. I need to decide how much I want shoot lower scores.
Am I satisfied shooting in the 90's? NO!
Do I want to shoot in the 80's? YES!
I would be disappointed if I couldn't generate 10, 20, 30 more yards per club so I can have a few GIR's per round and more chances for pars than for bogeys. I will follow your advice and at least check the lie angles. Thank you.
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Let me relate a story from a couple of years ago. One of my former golf teachers (a well known S&T guy) came through town and we met at a driving range. I was managing to hit some punch shots with my 7 iron about 100 yards. Meanwhile, he pulls out my 60* wedge, pures that sucker and the ball lands at the 125 yard marker. When you're good, it doesn't matter whose clubs you use.
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Inspired
Inspired by Tina B.'s recent progress through practice and experimentation I realized that I need to 'work' on my swing, especially my driver at the moment.
So first, I quick changed my 9* for the 10.5* driver head. With the Nickent 4DX evolver that I got in my fitting 3 years ago that is a real simple two minute change. While I was at it I turned on my air compressor and blew off the current grip and added the yellow reverse taper Enlow. Next I went to the 'backyard driving range' and after putting impact tape on my driver face practice with a specific purpose. I have known for years now that the optimal swing vertical or otherwise has us approaching our ball (with the driver) from the inside path, on a slightly up angle, and having the drive face either square to slightly closed at impact IF i wanted the most distance and a straight to a slight draw. The sound,feel and mark on the driver face would tell me if I had a center strike and a well hit ball. (note, I don't have a Flightscope radar:). Also I am doing this at the moment in the back yard which is into a net and not a 300 yard driving range:)
Inside and swing approach on the upswing, how? We know that one of if not the key to coming from the inside and not over the top and outside is mastering the bump and the proper ground up sequence. Most of us (speak for myself right?) are still coming over the top and fading or slicing the ball too frequently which is a shot most of us hate. As Surge says, almost everyone he teaches are hoping to learn to hit it straight to a bit of a draw, especially off the tee. This is why we all know that one old guy that we sometime play with who still hits the ball a long ways even though it doesn't seem logical to us. In most cases it is because he is hitting a draw. It cruises out there around 190 and rolls from left to right another 35 yards or so. "Man I wish I could do that (or better) all the time like 'old guy' does". Me too so how did my practice session with this goal go?
Good. really good. What I did was set up and in slow motion practice going back and then dropping in by bumping my left hip toward the target. This sets in motion the inside move from the ground up. I have never been able to consistently do this on purpose. I am now inspired to do it any way until I get it. I would go back slow and drop under (while not following through but simply stopping just before hitting the ball.) Again and then again a third time and then on the forth I would do my best to repeat this move with a full swing with the ball following through to at T finish and recoil in balance.
Then check the impact spot. The first was out on the toe. Making subtle adjustments in both grip and stance (distance from the ball, width and position of club head to ball) then repeat routine. Closer and closer I got to the sweet spot till finally I was nailing the same center spot each time. Determined that my grip had a lot to do with my success I kept my hands on the grip and after opening the screen door with my elbow (he, he he :) walked into the house and found Cindy and a permanent magic marker so she could mark my v's of each hand so the grip could be repeated precisely each time I set up.
Back out to do it all again and wow! Love it. Can't wait to get out on Friday's round to test it out.
Friday's driver test
If you read my above entry you'll see I am working on some old ideas with fresh vigor. As I stated, I have tried for years now (with limited success) to employ the proper sequence from the ground up. Surge teaches and I fully agree that the bump or lateral shift of the lower body is key as we start our FUS. Still I have never been able to "get it". Yesterday evening in my backyard driving range I seem to find something. Swinging back vertically and exagerating the drop inside several times while stopping just before impact helps to pre-set the 'from the inside/bump' move. Doing that three times and then on the next taking a full swing seem to make it happen. I did make a couple of other adjustments including using the Enlow (reverse taper) and then after finding the ideal hands position (grip) I had Cindy mark the V's on the yellow grip so I could practice repeating the exact same grip every time. I also switch from my 9* to my 10.5* driver head.
After Cindy and I enjoyed following the Shriners Open here in Las Vegas for several hours today we had a 2:30 tee time with my brother. Making a long story short I hit 11 out of 14 greens and got my distance back. Was down to about 220 the last couple of months (with far too many fades/slices- translation "short right"). Today I was hitting it high and long (about 250-265 that's long for me) and as importantly in play. Many of my drives even had a little bit of draw. Yaaa!! Scoring? Okay, did have 4 pars on the first 9 along with some "others" a 44 and then after a back nine with 3 pars in a row followed with 2 bogies and a painful double then finished with 3 pars in a row for a 40 and an 84 total. Finally started making some good iron shots and some putts fell in. Not overly excited by the score but had several really good shots and most optimistic about my driver results. I feel like I might actually be learning finally how to bump and come from the inside and not from over the outside. Hope to apply the same move to the rest of my clubs with practice in the coming months.
Guess there is hope for old dogs to learn new tricks.
Note; I think I might not be alone in that even with the PPGS we non-pros have a tendency to still come over the top and from out to in. Surge emphasizes that after coming back vertically he fights laying off the club in his initial FUS. I have always held that most of us fight the exact opposite challenge. An examination of Surges swing shows that he does indeed drop into a slightly layed off position that puts him in the ideal in the slot angle to the ball. I think I have finally had a break through in this regard.
bump to slot drop
You are on point with the importance of the bump dropping the arms and club into the proper slot. From the slot one can create the force and speed to swing the club into the on-on-on square and solid impact which makes it easier to swing up to the T finish.
Here is an interesting observation on the bump to slot causation. A proper bump causes the back shoulder to drop vertically. That in turn flattens out the club slightly into the angle of the slot position. The bump also moves the knees and hips forward to create the space for the arm and club to drop into the slot. The move is analogous to the horse (bump) pulling the cart (arms and club) parallel to the aim line.
Here is the kicker. The back shoulder can be directed to drop vertically at the bell ringing point in the BUS and that will in turn create the bump that lets the knees and hips move forward to create the room for the drop into the slot.
The key to the move is to not let the club lay off flatter than the angle at the slot that goes through the ball when a line is drawn to the ball. Surge emphasizes this as critical in order to not get stuck as plagues so many of the rotational players. Tiger is the poster child for creating too much lay off energy because his legs and hips get far ahead of the proper sequence that produces the proper slot angle. No matter who is his swing coach he will still have the getting stuck flaw until the idea of a quieter lower body movement that Surge teaches cures the root of that problem,
Excellent SGW. We are at the
Excellent SGW. We are at the Shriners tourny so I will answer at length later tonight. Suffice it to say I have known the importance for many years and why. I have finally experience a breakthrough on the how!
Ringing the bell / the slot
If you guys your own YouTube videos of what "ringing the bell" or dropping into "the slot" are supposed to look of feel like, I would like to see them. Or, if you can point me to Surge's videos that talk about them, thanks.
When I swing the club at slow to medium speed, I keep things in fairly good sequence. But I look to really swing fast, I lose all control and the sequence breaks down. Can I swing fast? Absolutely. Can I hit the ball while swinging fast? Not so well, or not in the intended direction.
No doubt explains why I can hit my 7 iron longer than the 4 hybrids in my bag. Robert, enjoy the Shriners tournament. We await your next post.
Jeff P.
ringing the bell
I like the idea of making a YouTube video. For reference to Surge's video blogs type in the slot into the search box just below the LOGIN/LOGOUT link at the top right of the web page.
First the bell isn't a church bell but is the type of bell that is used at a hotel/motel that you hit to announce your presence to employees out of sight.
Surge says the bell is upside down and towards the top of the BUS. When the club head hits the bell when it is vertically over the top of the grip (butt end) the bump is started for the FUS and to help drop the arms and club into the slot.
The slot is seen when looking down the line. It creates a plane between the swing plane (a line drawn from the ball extending through the base of the neck) and the shaft plane ( a line drawn from the ball extending through the shaft angle at address). The slot can also be described as a plane line drawn from the ball extending through the shaft angle. If the angle is too flat the energy of the release will be away and above the ball and if too vertical the energy of the release will be in and below the ball. Also can be described as thin heel shots and fat toe shots.
Swinging fast in the golf swing is from halfway down to the ball from the start of the FUS through the ball and up to the T finish. If you try to swing fast before halfway down it will be hard to hit solid accurate shots as the shoulders tend to start spinning and get way out of sequence.
Where have you been all my life, shortgamewizard ?
Dropping the right shoulder vertically at the bell ringing point works like a charm as a downswing trigger. I hit 120 balls at the range today using this simple, easy to repeat thought and was amazed at how well it worked with every club. It starts a very good sequence with the bump and the rest of the swing happening without thought , helps keep the head behind the ball, encourages an inside swing path to the ball and is easy to do slowly enough to have a good and smooth transition from the top.
To bad the golf season is over at my course. I may have to wait until next year to use it while playing.
Many Thanks,
Dave
chicken or the egg?
The bump can drop the shoulder down or the shoulder can create the bump.
Ether way the key to being able to strike the ball depends on the relationship between the bump and the back shoulder.
P.S. here in Arizona the golf season is over until the winter rye grass dies in the late spring and early summer. Looks pretty, plays not so good. Better than snow though!
Going to give it a try
Per my comment below to Robert, my bump has been giving me problems me thinks, so will try this next weekend (assuming my hands don't freeze at the driving range).
BTW I did use your right-shoulder / right trigger finger swing thought this past weekend over 18 holes of play; overall I think it is helping, my misses seemed to be a lot tighter than usual. Looking forward to using it over the next golf season.
Slot
Jeff asked about links and SGW rightly refered him to the search box. I went ahead and found this one for Jeff and anyone else interested about the slot.
https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/finding-slot
Certainly watch the whole thing but I found the key points at the 2:30 second mark and from 7:28-7:45 point. Notice that as Surge bumps he gets that secondary spine tilt. At that same split second notice how he shows the club laying off. I agree completely with Surges demonstration of getting into the slot however I would again argue that most of us average to fairly good golfers have no challenge fighting the club getting too laid off in transition. Yes we may too often be too laid off and even in the SBG in our back swings BEFORE starting the FUS but in transition the tendency for most ( and most are slicer/faders) is to come out over the top from outside and NOT to overdue coming from under and inside as per Surges reference to Surgio Garcia in that video. So for me my breakthrough was purposely over doing the bump and the lay off move from the vertical top of the swing. (just had this revelation two nights ago in the backyard driving range). Blessed be the day when I need to worry about getting too laid off after transition and need to control it with my right hand the way Surge has highlighted he must many, many times.
Here is my observation from my personal struggles learning the PPGS and becoming as vertical as I'd like to be. SGW touched on this also and that is it is easier to swing up and vertical in the FUS if we come from the inside. I often tend to have a challenge not having my arms and the club going left in the follow through because they are already headed there at impact. Again, is largely due to coming over the top from the outside which delivers the path of the club left and too flat in the finish. So it seems the answer is we who are among the 80% estimated slicers (or former slicers) or ones who struggle consistently avoiding that shape may need to exaggerate the inside move that is initiated by the bump and the secondary spine tilt. At least for myself that has been the recent breakthrough. I needed to take radical measures in order to get my stubborn old habits body to listen. I don't know if it will take 10,000 reps to get it but I'm up to about 200 so far. We'll see.
As an additional note I am re-experiencing the importance of the Master set up Position - MSP. That back arm pre-set lower and under help bot in the lift vertically and in getting into the bump/slot position. This too helps us to swing up into the T finish. Of course it all fits together when done correctly and then the swing lasts less than 1.5 seconds.
Cindy has been really great at letting me know if I'm in the MSP along with my alignment. Again, the PPGS is the only swing she's ever known so that helps us both.
Definitely sounds familiar..
Robert, you've been describing my swing woes to a tee (pun intended). I really enjoyed the discussion here from everyone on the bump, it's inspiring me to have a closer look at that again too.
I got out on the weekend and quite often was hitting them short-right with pretty much every club. The really frustrating part was when I took a practice swing (with full setup routine and muscle tone as Surge preaches) my divot was right down the aiming line, but when I made the actual shot, the over-the-top divot appeared. There were a handful of times when that didn't happen and I actually got a down-the-line divot, and needless to say, got that piercing ball flight that went long and straight. The conditions didn't help, it was a cold and blustery day with wind gusts exceeding 30 mph, but regardless I think the short-right shots might be due to having misfires on the bump.
Update on bump and slot
Todd,
Good luck on you're revisting the bump.
The exaggerated drop in and bump has helped me add distance and hit a draw more often and go right less often HOWEVER, let me warn you that because of spending a lot more time on the range lately I have a sore back. Obviously in my desire to swing more from the inside and bump laterally I have stressed my lower back a little. Over doing it for sure. Yes I have been bumping much more than the prescribed one inch no doubt and likely past 70* and in the SBG. My body (left to it's own evils) wants to swing out and across and forcing it to drop in and bump laterally is challenging those demons, lol! So now that I am becoming more accustomed
to the move I will do it in a more subtle manner. Exaggerating the moves has been the initial way for me to see results. I'm sure in a personal lesson with Surge he would be directing me to quiet down the movement and angles which I will do in the coming weeks. So while I have had some ahah! revelations lately I would remind those like Todd that are looking closer at the slot and bump to move cautiously but indeed forge ahead:)
Note; Because I play 2-4 days a week any how I do not spend much time on the range. Too, one large bucket of balls is always way more than I need because I go through my set up and swing meticulously, one ball at a time switching out clubs nearly every swing. Why? because I practice as if playing.
How many swings do we get with each shot on the golf course? One. So I most often practice this way. Same thing on the putting green. Most golfers I see drop a sleeve of 3 balls on the green and put all three from the same spot to the same hole. We don't do this on the golf course and neither do I on the practice green. One ball to a different target every time. If I do use 3-5 balls on the practice green it is from five different lengths and angles.
Good words of wisdom, thanks
Good words of wisdom, thanks Robert. Regarding practice range / putting green regimen, I mix it up a bit, sometimes I hit a string of balls with same club until I get "a good one", sometimes I imagine I'm playing a real hole like a par 4 or par 5; sometimes I play an entire 18 holes in my head from the practice tee, it puts me more into a mindset of actually hitting real golf shots and it's fun to see what "score" I end up with. My putting regimen is similar, sometimes I hit from same place until I feel I stroked a good one, other times I'll vary it up a bit from different locations, like the 12-point 3 foot circle exercise. Lately my 4-year old has been enjoying spending anywhere from an hour to two hours on the putting green, something that has definitely helped me with my putting!
Slot / Ringing the Bell
Obviously, gentlemen, I have misapplied PPGS swing principles. Everything felt correct but video doesn't lie. I'd be happy to correspond with anyone at jpassage1@gmail.com. Thanks, Jeff P.