One of the biggest things I hear at golf schools and demonstrations is amateurs wanting to learn how to stop the ball on the green like the pros. They would do anything if they could just get the ball to spin backwards after landing. But, it's not some trick that the pros aren't telling you. Believe me, if there was a secret to it, you'd hear it from me first!
Stan Adams sent in a request for me to address this issue. Unfortunately, the course that you play on is going to be the biggest determining factor of whether or not you'll be able to back the ball up.
Hi Surge,Great tips and assistance from your daily videos which I find are timely and useful.I play a course that has great fairways and greens. In summer especially, the ball runs for some distance after landing. This is great for adding distance on the fairways, however the greens are another story. A good pitch or chip can keep running past the hole or even right off the green.I see the golf pros casually dropping the ball onto the green and stopping the ball dead, or in some cases overshoot the hole and back the ball up. I have not been able to achieve this in spite of getting good height and hitting the green, so my question is simple - how do I put the brakes on once the ball hits the green?
This is a really good question and one that comes up a lot when I play rounds with students. In most cases, many amateurs cannot really accomplish stopping the ball on the green. The first skill needed is to be able to nip the ball right off the ground. Clubhead speed plays a big role too. The club must clip it right on the ball to impart backspin.
But, here's what you may not know. Fairways on the PGA Tour are cut as short or shorter than the fringe on the course you play. If you go to a normal course the fairways are going to be about a half inch or longer. That's because amateur golfers prefer to have the ball sitting up higher so they can hit it more easily. I could actually go out to my backyard right now and put a ball on pure hardpan and nip it clean with no problem. It's one of the easiest shots in golf because all you have to do is clip it. Spin comes from the hard surface of the ground with the ball being hit against it. If you watch a pro hit the ball off of hardpan, they can really jerk the ball backwards like it's on a string. Officials also keep the fairways hard and fast on the PGA Tour to avoid mud balls, so the result is more spin on the ball.
The key is that in order to spin the ball backwards, you've got to have tightly mown fairways. The greens also have to be receptive, but for the most part your fairways won't allow for it. So, you've got to understand the difference and adjust for it accordingly. For example, you will have to account for a bit of forward roll once it hits the green instead of counting on it to stop on a dime.
Believe it or not, even the best pro would have trouble spinning the ball back on the green if he or she played the same course that you do. The conditions simply do not allow for it. So don't think it's some secret or special thing that they're doing. It's the courses they play. Fairways are mown really low and are kept firm and fast. Most courses are not cut at the height that will allow you to pinch the ball to get enough spin on it to suck it back so don't make yourself crazy trying to figure it out.
Keep it vertical!
The Surge
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I for one, am tired of seeing
I for one, am tired of seeing these so called pros, do much better than the average player. This is for all sports, like bowling or golf, where they have all specially fitted, custom equipment, the very latest, that the average person can't get yet. And now they are playing on specially prepared surfaces, be it the fairways, greens or oil on a bowling lane. What the PGA and others should do, is have them play the games the way the average person plays them. Same typical conditions and "off the shelf equipment" .. Then we will see who can really play and who can't. It is no wonder the pro golfer's drives go farther. Yes, it stays in the air longer, but it also rolls more when it hits the fairways. And I applaud the PGA for deciding to ban Belly Putters, but it should go into effect Jan 2013 not 2 years later.
"Better than average"
Wow! LOL
They ARE better than average. That's why they are there among the best of the best.
They do have many advantages that we don't have, but then we are not playing under tournament pressure against the best players in the world for four straight days either.
All of us would fall flat on our face if we tried to compete against them.
The biggest advantage they have to me is that they are much less likely to have a lost ball on a bad shot. There are more people watching. Sometimes we have lost balls on pretty good shots because it settles into the rough.
P.S. Cowboy. I have a bump on every shot, even a putt, but it's so small that you would never see it.
I have the anwer
We are fast becoming a world where "fair" is the answer to every question. It ain't fair for one little league team to get trophies, while all the other teams get none. Fair, means every team gets a trophy, no matter how they played. A generation of kids are growing up thinking they don't have to practice 4 hours every day, an hour or two once a week is good enough. They are in for a rude awakening when they get to the work force and find out their boss won't give them a trophy just for showing up.
Every profession has people who have a great deal of God given talent, and a lot of other people who have average or better than average talent but who are willing to work their butts off to get to the top. I suspect it won't be long before big brother decides that keeping score in golf is bad for player's mental health. They will then ban score keeping, or I guess they could do the same thing they do with our money. They could just take all those extra shots we all hit, and spread them around. Didn't someone once say it is better for everyone if we just spread stuff around. Sounds like they are spreading manure around.
Saying that if we could borrow their clubs and play on the same course they play on we could shoot the same scores they do is like saying that if a military sniper handed you his .50 cal. rifle you could pop some moron in the grape at a mile and a half. The answer is, no you couldn't. That might not be fair, but it is life.
When the troops complained that something was not fair, my Marine 1st Sgt. used to say "Life ain't fair men, life is real, get used to it. A fair is where you take your gal to win her a stuffed animal." God, where have all our heroes gone?
Keeping it vertical, with no back spin and no whining, in Oklahoma,
Dick
I have the answer
Amen brother Dick.
Good to have you back .
Where is my duct tape when I need it?
Mike
It is great to be back home in the Surge Nation. I missed you folks more than you could know.
Guess I have a little saved up time on the soap box. Had to get it off my chest. I am going to have to find that duct tape and do a double rap around my head to keep it from exploding.
Dick
Money
You have access to almost all of the custom fit equipment and well maintained courses that the pros play on. As long as you have the money. That's the essential difference. They play for millions of dollars. Most of the rest of us play for beers in the club house and maybe $20 a side. Next you'll say that professional baseball should be played at your local little league park, or the dirt lot behind the old abandoned auto shop.
The fact is, on a professional course, you and I couldn't play nearly as well as any of the pros. They really are better at the sport, and they're playing in a competition setting that most of us will never have the opportunity to feel. I believe that the USGA and R&A should take a long, hard look at the golf ball technology and see if they can't dial that back to a rational level, as they did almost 100 years ago when the ball technology advanced to where pros were hitting the ball too far for the courses. Sometimes when I'm at the local municipal course range, there's a guy who comes out to practice who plays on the mini tours. He's not quite consistent enough to make it onto the Web.com Tour, but you watch him smack the golf ball off the range with the beat-up old range balls they have and tell me you can hit the ball as well as he does.
Respectfully disagree
We actually have much of the same access to the top club fitters, teachers and golf courses that the pros do. Granted, most cannot afford it. Living here in Las Vegas I have ocassionlly played on some tournament quality courses and still can't spin the ball with the very expensive high quality fitted forged irons I use. Frankly I have seen some really skilled golfers spin and stop the ball in some crappy conditions. They are just better at ball first contact and crisp precise strikes than the rest of us. Many of us have had a rare moment of catching the ball just right and seeing it stop or even back up a bit. They just do it more often out of all kinds of lies.
Personally I love watching pros and
marvel at their skill. Good for them.
And belly putters? I don't agree with the coming changes and bans. Anchoring has helped pros and amatures alike.
Just my opinion.
Spinning the ball
Robert,
I like your observations on spinning the ball and I had a Eureka! moment the other day. If I can contact the ball 2-5* prior to the bottom of my arc, I get back spin and can stop the ball. I came up with the 2-5* from a simulation I ran on the computer. The ball has to be contacted slightly above the bottom of the ball before the club bottoms out to get spin.
Of the 128 balls I hit with my SW, I managed to spin only one. I have yet to become consistent with positioning the ball and swinging so that I contacting the ball at the bottom of the arc. I have a spread of about 5 inches that the bottom of the arc varies over. Most of that seems to be from my still slightly weak wrists. Guess that's why I'm not a professional.
I for one, am tired of seeing
Bruce
The Pros do better than the average player because they are just that good. They put the work in to be that good they started the game at a very young age with very good instruction. I cant see us average players out spending 8 hours a day working out and practicing.
Busy
Sorry I haven't been around as much lately. I've been a bit busy. I'm preparing to move half-way across the country, and I just got engaged. I'm still checking in and reading all the fun conversations, but don't have quite the time to join in as much right now.
And, any Surgites in the Dallas area, I'll be living near you in the new year. I look forward to meeting up and getting in some good rounds while we help each other's games like Robert Meade and I have had the chance to do here.
Moving
Best of luck on your move Robert.
Plenty of golf in the Dallas area. I'm sure you will be able to meet many Surgites.
Keep in touch pal:)
Best wishes on your new life
From Robert and Cindy
Congrats Robert
I wish you God's speed in you move and up coming marriage. I live up in Oklahoma City. If you ever get up this way, would love to get together and hit some balls.
Dick
Thanks, Dick. Depending on a
Thanks, Dick. Depending on a few things (like Mother Nature), I may be making a bit of a journey out of my drive to Texas in a few weeks and may, in fact, pass through OKC. If so, I may not have time for golf, but a guy and his traveling dogs have to eat sometime. Steve Smith can give you my email, since I know you lost all of them if you ever had mine before.
Did someone mention food
Bout time someone got around to talking about food. Way too much golf talk on the blog today. If you are able to give us a little heads up, would love to break some bread with you.
I will ask Steve to send me your info so we can get in direct contact.
Dick
Safe journey Robert
Best wishes for your upcoming move and marriage Robert. May each treat you kindly. The only time I've spent in Texas was one supper hot July forty some years ago during Air Force basic training. Seems like a lifetime ago. Memories really are the only thing we have left in the end. Make as many as you can good ones.
I too agree
What other professional sport completely changes conditions for a match? Football, same field, same football, same equipment. Baseball; pros actually GO BACK to traditional wooden bats. Imagine pro golfers going back to wood drivers? Basketball; same ball, same court. Soccer; same ball, same pitch. Motorcross racing; are you kidding? The point is, pro golfers are pampered on the course. There is no way for us duffers to really relate to how good they are because we don't play under the same conditions. Sometime the rough is a little high for their liking, but have you been on you local muni course lately? Please.
The same?
Have you ever been on a pro football field? I have, and I have been down under them. They have a million dollars of equipment to take care of their fields. If you think pro or even collage fields are like what we played on in high school, you are wrong. I don't remember having physical therapist to stretch my legs for me before a game, a half dozen medical specialist on the side lines, or a hot tub to soak my tired rear end after the football game. Every professional sport treats their athletes like what they are, an investment. Even race horses get adjusted by chiropractors. I rode a police mounted patrol horse for 7 years. Jett Lite never had a chiropractor.
Does anyone think there is one part on Tony Stewart's Chevy that could be found on mine? Guess they could just put all of us from the freeway out onto the NASCAR track and we could beat them on Sunday. We would all just kill ourselves and a bunch of other people too. Like professional golfers and every other pro sport, that is what they do, and they are only there because they are better than the rest of us.
I have played the blue monster in south Florida the week after the PGA tourney down there. That was back before my wreck when I was a scratch golfer. Guess what, I didn't shoot 63 on the same course they played the week before.
Some times it ain't the arrow, or the course that is the problem. Some times it is the Indian.
TV VIEWER RATINGS
I do not disagree with you about the Pro's playing tougher courses.
The reality is that the regular tour events or geared more towards getting viewers to watch on tv. The majority of viewers and sponsors would rather have tournaments that are producing scores of 18 - 19 under par they say this is what the viewers want see. That is why you see the USGA controlled events with way more difficult course setups and it keeps the scoring down or up how ever you look at it.
Its all about Ratings.
Conditions?
Ha ha! Maybe you grew up differently than I did but the first time I set foot on a "real" baseball field it was pretty obvious that it was going to be MUCH easier to field the ball on that field than on the cow pasture fields I played in high school or junior college. No bad hops.
Then I noticed the batters box was as level as a pool table, and the slope on the pitchers mound was one smooth grade. None of that worrying about a consistent landing spot for the front foot. (One junior college field had basically a small cliff behind the rubber and I had to pitch out of a stretch the whole game).
The there's the lights. I played on fields that weren't much better than candles on top of four poles in high school (in baseball and football). One year my night time batting average was 100 points below my day time batting average.
Played a high school football game one time when it had been raining and they had dug a trench about 6" deep across the 50 yard line to drain the water off.
The kicking shoe they gave me was used by the former kicker that had graduated and he wore a size 15 and I wore a 12. They just told me to use it anyway.
Played a high school basketball game one time where you had to turn your feet sideways at the end of the court to stand out of bounds to inbound the ball, and there were 4 gas space heaters in each corner of the gym. LOL
I could go on and on, but I won't. ;-)
Conditons
Around here growing up playing baseball it seemed like the older the age bracket you played in the better the fields we played on. I remember in the 7th and 8th grade having Ken Griffey sr and another Reds player come out and teach use sliding techniques because there were 2 or 3 fields that we played that had stick in bases. A lot of the fields we played back then were privately owned and they took very good care of them because the made a lot money off of them with softball leagues etc.
Football fields back then were ok but they are much better now a lot of the High Schools around here have turf fields and they allow the pee wee teams to use them.
Pga tour I just think they could play in a little tougher conditions personally I would rather watch them struggle a little to get to say 10 under for a win. I watch either way but I think the 18 - 20 under events are more about tv ratings than anything. Watching the EURO tour to me seems like those guys are playing courses more in line with what we weekend warriors play. Those guys over there have all the shots and is probably why they seem to play better in tough conditions.
Fields
The higher up you go in sports the better the conditions and the equipment are.
The baseball field I started out playing on was more of a chirt pit than a baseball field. We learned pretty quickly that you only slid twice a year if at all possible. One time on each hip,and when you did you tore all of the skin off of that hip and you picked gravel out of the wound for the next couple of weeks. LOL
Funniest of all was junior high football. They gave us the old leftover pads from the high school teams and nothing fit at all. We were a sorry looking bunch. Some of the helmets were so big that they would spin around backwards when running down the field and the shoulder pads and hip pads made us look like idiots. They didn't give us practice jerseys so we just wore our T shirts over the pads. One kid wore his button up shirt over his pads.
It's a wonder we could play at all. LOL
Rumors
Theirs some rumors flying around that Sabin may leave after the season and go to Cleveland Browns I don't know why have you heard anything ?
Saban
Lots of rumors but nobody knows if there is anything to any of them or not. Most of the time all of the rivals like to fuel that talk. If he is going to leave it's probably a good time for him to leave before somebody else hires Kirby Smart. I would take a guess they would give him the job and that would be a good thing because he's already in the system and nothing much would change.
If he does leave it will only be because the expectations are so ridiculously high that it can't be any fun to coach. Every year everybody expects him to win every game and act like it's a big deal if we lose a game. I actually get sick of it myself. This year we should be no good at all because we lost almost the entire team to the NFL last year and yet the press and the Alabama fans still expect to win a National Championship anyway (which somehow we may do). It's one thing to think you are going to be good when you are loaded (like last year) but another thing to expect it in a re-building year. Nobody would want to live under that kind of pressure.
Fields
Steve: You paint a fun - no - delightful picture with your choice of words!! Great stuff. Thanks for sharing and giving us a good chuckle. R2
What ever happend to Cory Pavin
He's living the live of luxury after 28 tour wins and making millions, Yes I said MILLIONS of dollars on tour. (over 15 mil through 2009) oh, by the way, he still plays on the Champions Tour and he's still making money. Let's keep in mind, this game is more often than not won from 150yds in, and even more often on the putting surface each week, NOT from the tee boxes. There are a lot of really good golfers out there who never made it, but to put Cory into that category is an injustice to him and the game.
Now it makes sense ...
Surge - thanks for this tip. Now it finally makes sense. When I play on better courses where the fairway is mown closer - the ball can be made to stop sooner on the green. Especially off the grass on a closely mown tee box. Off the normally longer fairways I play - not so much.
I'll be more concerned about "backing it up" when I get my distance that precise. I have seen this ruin as many shots as it has helped.
Down the middle,
Jon
Backing the ball up
I once heard Arnold Palmer on the GC respond to this question on one of the tip shows. His answer was do you constantly hit your approach shots past the hole if not why are you even asking the question most amateurs do not hit enough club into greens to begin with.
I generally do not have problems holding shots on greens usually stop the ball with in a couple of feet of were they land wether its from they fairway or rough.
If it is July,August the greens start getting dried out and quicker when this happens I start taking less club to allow for the extra roll out on the greens.
It has a lot with the ball you play also. I pay either PRO V1 X or PR V1 or
Bridgetone BB 330 RX.
Great ball
Mike
As my club head speed has come down a bit, I switched from the Pro V1 to the Bridgestone 330 RX. It is a great ball.
Glad to know I am not the only Surgite who likes that ball,
Dick
Hi Dick
Hi Dick
I have been playing the the BB330 RX for two seasons now they are as good as either of the PRO V1's . I like the ball flight out of them and I like the feel of them around the greens and they are not lacking for distance.
Spin
The golfing public is WAY too enamored with spin on a golf ball.
They will cheer more for a shot that lands just past the pin and spins back for a 15 foot putt than they will for a ball that lands 3 feet from the pin and doesn't spin at all leaving a 3 foot putt (crazy).
Several players were eliminated from The Big Break this year simply because they had no control of the spin. They hit what should have been good shots, only to see them spin back out of putting range or even off of the green. Then about the time they figure they better get it past the hole the spin doesn't cooperate.
I heard a reporter ask a pro one day about how he got so much spin on the ball and he said he hated it when the ball spins back, and would rather the ball stay where he landed it. He said he was good enough to land the ball pretty close to where he wanted it most of the time, but trying to gage how much a ball may or may not spin back was the big problem.
I rarely have any need to put much extra spin on the ball and much prefer to count on distance control and roll out with the loft of the shot. There are times when a lot of spin is necessary if the green is sloping away with no room for roll out, and when I have to I use it I do, but ONLY when I have to.
My normal iron shots (even up to 3 iron shots) are almost always within a foot or two from the pitch mark on the normal greens we see on public golf courses. Pros have to deal with firmer greens in many tournaments (the ones that are brown by Sunday and dead by Monday) and that requires more spin than the greens we play on.
Goes back to my whole philosophy of golf shots. Use only as high a trajectory as is necessary for the shot at hand, and use only as much spin as necessary for the shot at hand. Use trajectory as a first resort to stop a shot and spin as the last resort to stop a shot. Sometimes every bit of both is the only option but don't get in love with that shot and use it when it's not necessary, and a much higher percentage and simpler shot will work.
I agree
I am more interested in shots hitting and sticking were they land. I did have a couple shots this year land with in six inches of the hole and back up to 10 - 15 short of were they landed and was not happy about it when it happens it usually cost me a stroke.
Ball spin
Steve and Mike: I completely agree. Personally, I dislike putting any spin on the ball - the result is simply too inconsistent. It is much, much easier to just change the loft of the ball to determine where it lands and for the amount of roll-out needed. Even when there isn't much green to work with, it's pretty easy to just pop the ball up softly and land it with little or no roll-out. Takes a little practice, but no where near the effort needed to put correct spin on the ball. Just my 2-cents worth. R2
Lesson learned the hard way
Hey Roy,
Yeah I learned that lesson the very first tournament I ever played in. I had a "very simple" short chip shot and unfortunately had fallen in love with my ability to flop and spin the ball with a lob wedge so that's the shot I used. I messed it up big time and made a bogey.
Went back to the course the next day and hit the same shot again over and over with every club in my bag except a lob wedge (even a driver and a putter), and didn't attempt to use any spin with any of them, and never once left myself more than a 3 foot putt.
Moral of the story: The shot you can hit all day long in practice becomes an entirely different animal under pressure, so go as simple as you can.
A really good golfer I used to play with was always talking about "shots that would hold up under pressure" and spent most of his time working on those shots. He was a smart guy. ;-)