Left Knee Moving Causes Reverse Tilt

Thu, 01/09/2014 - 12:00 -- Don Trahan

Your knees are your levelers and stabilizers, which means they have to maintain that stability throughout the swing. If your left knee (or right knee for lefties) starts to break during your backswing, it's going to cause a reverse tilt which leads to all sorts of other problems. So, how do you avoid this?

Duncan Gomm realized this was exactly what was holding him back from shooting lower scores. He had his grand daughter film his swing and he noticed that his left knee was moving quite a bit. He was able to correct his problem because he had a video to reference, which is a great idea for everyone when you can't seem to figure out what's causing your poor shots.

GOOD DAY DON,

YOU REVIEWED MY EMAIL ON YOUR DAILY VIDEO AND YOU WERE SO CORRECT, I HAD ALREADY DOWNLOADED MANY OF YOUR VIDEOS AS I COULD FIND I WENT TO THE RANGE AND SORTED THE HIGH HANDS PROBLEM OUT WHICH WAS PULLING MY SPINE ALL OVER THE PLACE. I ALSO HAD MY GRAND DAUGHTER TAKE A VIDEO OF MY SWING ON HER PHONE AND ANOTHER BIG PROBLEM I HAD WAS MY LEFT KNEE WAS MOVING ABOUT THREE INCHES, WHICH I DID NOT EVEN REALIZE UNTIL THE VIDEO AND THAT WAS PULLING MY HEAD TOWARDS THE TARGET. SAY NO MORE ABOUT THE INCONSISTANT RESULTS PRIOR TO NOW.

IF EVER YOU COME TO SOUTH AFRICA IT WOULD BE MY PLEASURE TO MEET YOU. THE REASON BEING MY SCORES HAVE COME FROM BETWEEN 104 AND 95 TO BETWEEN 87 AND 91 AND THREE WEEKS AGO OR SO I SHOT MY LOWEST SCORE OF 82 AND A WEEK LATER AN 84. SO IF ANYONE WANTS A REFERENCE I WILL GLADLY GIVE IT. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. IT'S A PLEASEURE TO PLAY GOLF AGAIN THANKS TO YOU.             

DUNCAN GOMM

How far can you move your left knee (right knee for lefties) before it starts moving the left hip? That's the test to see how much it should move. Because it doesn't take much movement for the knee to collapse, you shouldn't move it much more than two inches. The knees are the bees, move them too much and they're going to sting you.

Like I've stated before, you have to resist your left knee from moving. I'm not saying not to move it at all, but I am saying you need to resist it from moving too much.

Keep it vertical!

The Surge

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Comments

NeilofOZ's picture

Submitted by NeilofOZ on

Just did the knee test and it's obvious that my body allows far more movement than most, I can get 2-3 inches of lateral movement without affecting my hips, but I still squeeze them outward on the BUS to stabilize them. If all my joints are similar then I can see where I have problems in timing, stability and co-ordination.

Since Surge's visit downunder my game has moved to another level by keeping my right elbow lower than my left, but to do this I have to push it into my mid-drift, it keeps the arc constant and allows an easier vertical lift "up the tree", does any other Surgite adopt this method, would love to know.

kjmduke@aol.com's picture

Submitted by kjmduke@aol.com on

Hi Neil, yes, I focus tucking the right elbow into my side and find it very helpful and easy to lift the club up properly. I try and make this the final piece of my set-up, just prior to take-away. The major problem I fight is to not left my right hand open when I tuck, as this creates a weak grip and ball flight problems. If I do not tuck the elbow/arm under, I will end up flipping the club at the top of the BUS as it has gone to the 1-2:00 position and creates bad results on the swing down. As you noted, when you have the proper set-up with the right arm below, the club's arc can naturally rise to the vertical position. Kevin McCarthy

NeilofOZ's picture

Submitted by NeilofOZ on

Kevin, thanks for your response and I concurr regarding the right hand, I let my left hand do the swinging across my body then from there it's all right hand to the up position and then continues all the way through in the FUS, whereas previously I was a left hand dominant player. To me, I still sense two arcs, the first arc getting the club to the toe line which is basically a horizontal movement, the second arc primarily being a vertical lift. I tried many times to feel this as a one piece arc, but never succeeded. The new setup and movement works well.

Every Xmas I head east to see my family and play on a challenging course which I never play to my handicap, this year after a session with Surge, I broke it by 4 strokes.

Dave Everitt's picture

Submitted by Dave Everitt on

The left knee moving was sometimes a problem for me when I triggered the BUS with the right hip turning back. After changing my back swing trigger to thinking of the right shoulder blade moving back, the hips turned less and their was no problem keeping the knees stable. This swing does require some hip turn but it works better for me, if the turning of the upper right back, pulls a passive hip back. There is no deliberate effort to turn the right hip back and it is easier to keep my left knee stable, without having to think about it.

NeilofOZ's picture

Submitted by NeilofOZ on

Dave, originally I started my BUS with the right hip also, but thinking back this was a leftover from the old rotational days ( alah-Greg Norman ).
I don't even think about the hips any more as the big hip turn is not so critical in PPGS system. To me the magic moves now are being VERTICAL and the BUMP.

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Lately, because of a left hip and leg issue (Sciatica), I have been forced to keep my lower body especially quiet. Because I can't get all my weight on my front left foot (just hurts too much) I don't over do the PLHR or full finish on left foot. Basically I shift very little weight back or forward. Ironically this has produced some of my best and worst golf on the same day. Today I shot a 40/41 that included 3 birdies, all on par 4's where I hit good drives and good seconds for one putt birds. Obviously with 3 birds and still firing an 81 there were some poorly played shots too. Like I said. 'the best and worst'. Though I love breaking 80 I am not upset at an 81 on the challenging Silverstone layout. That's golf,eh? Any how as it applies to the stable left knee, my best shots were the ones where I kept my knees and whole body quieter. Still head and stable knees for the best results. Just happy to be playing at all at the moment. We have been blessed with temps in the low 60's. Not practicing or playing as much until leg heals and behaves. Won't complain as I know many of you have challenges with cranky bodies and are deep in snow too!

Dave Everitt's picture

Submitted by Dave Everitt on

Robert,
Sorry to hear that your back pain is still bothering you. I don't know if you have ever tried deep water aerobics with a flotation belt. I've found it to be a great way to condition all the core muscles and get an aerobic workout at the same time. I think that it's a lot better for the back than just swimming laps, because you can exercise through a very wide range of motion, without hurting anything, while in a weightless upright position. I do an hour long routine, 3 times a week during the winter, that involves pushing and pulling with all of the muscles involved in the golf swing.

I won't be able to hit real balls until our Spring trip to the coast but have found a good way to work on the swing indoors. I can't hit balls into a net where I practice but have found something to hit off a small mat that works very well. I purchased ten small pot scrubber sponges for $1.00 at the Dollar Store. They are 1 inch thick and 3X4 inches. I use one for everything but the Driver. Two of them piled together works very well for the Driver. If they go right or left of the target, you can tell right away that something needs changing. Maybe not the best, but it's good to actually have something to hit, while waiting for Spring.

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Dave,
Thanks. The pool is one of many suggestions I have received. I agree. It will be among the other things I'm doing for it. Seems none of us will reach the end without a few "fun" things happening to our bodies at some point. I'll be fine.

Creative indoor golf idea you have. BTW, did you see there were two double eagles today. One in Hawaii and the other in a European tourny. A 2 on a par 5 is a rare event.

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/joost-luitens-albatross-volvo-golf-champions/

bhmullen@earthlink.net's picture

Submitted by bhmullen@earthl... on

Don,
You have done many comparisons of PPGS to the Rotational swing used by most pro golfers today. You often refer to "bacon strips" for diviots as described by Moe Norman but you never demonstrate the Single Plane Swing used by Moe versus the PPGS. Could you please do a daily comparing the two methods. A student of Moe's, a Mr. Graves has a video lesson series on single plane swing that he says he learned from Moe.
Thanks,
Byron Mullen
PS I really like the reinforcement from your daily lessons.

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Byron,
Surge has compared the Moe Norman method. Here you go:

https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/natural-golf-similar-peak-performance-golf-swing

This was not the only occasion we have spoken about Moe Norman. To see several other cases simply put the name in the search box found at the upper top right side of this page. This will come up:

https://www.swingsurgeon.com/search/node/moe%20norman