The Plane Is The Same

I do my best to pay her back

I do my best to pay her back in honey do's. A good wife is a great find. One who likes golf too, close to heaven for sure.

That's too bad. A lot of good

That's too bad. A lot of good video lessons were lost. Hopefully Don will repeat some of the more important ones.

Thanks, I think there must be something going on. All of the 2011 I've tried are fine, but nothing from 2010 will play any more. I hope it's just a temporary situation and we haven't lost them forever.

What's the advantage of going

What's the advantage of going up to vertical and then dropping the club
into the laid off position with the "loop"? Surge says it's the same
plane up and down, but it can't be if you're laying off the club at the
top. If the forward swing doesn't start where the backswing left off,
then you've got different planes. Why? Why not just go back to the
position you need to be in to come down - the slightly laid off
position?

Surge's swing has helped me a lot, but I didn't eliminate my weak slice
until I gave up on "vertical" and starting laying off the club a little.
It's funny that I'm now seeing that that's what Surge is teaching and
doing himself.

Personally I think Surge gets a little stuck on ideas like "lightness"
for poetic reasons that have nothing to do with what he's actually doing
himself. Sure, it's easier to swing with the club less laid off and
more vertical than what rotational swingers teach, but there's a limit.
If your club is literally vertical you either have to a) curve your
plane on the downswing to get back to the ball, b) come over the top and
slice it, or c) drop back to a better laid off position.

So why the "keep it vertical" motto? Is it just because "keep it
vertical until you get to the top and then drop it back into a better
place" is too clunky?

I thought this was exactly the kind of obfuscation that Surge had dedicated his life's work to clearing up.ÃÂ

I wish, and I wish. LOL

Thanks for the feedback. I've

Thanks for the feedback. I've now tried a bunch of the Sept 2010 videos and all of them are coming up as , Video removed. I'll send an inquire here and through the support link as to why. Maybe other archived videos are having the same problem as well.

Well put Kevin

Armand

My first impression of you still stands.

Thanks for knowing so much and taking a little bit of your valuable time to try and fix us poor misguided and poorly taught folks here in the Surge Nation.ÃÂ Sure is sweet of you.

Don't you just hate it when you try to educate us and we don't listen to you?

You must be a really busy guy.ÃÂ I posted that comment to you a week ago.ÃÂ Just so you know, we are already on other subjects to talk about now.ÃÂ Hope you didn't spend a whole week coming up with your reply.ÃÂ You are going to get way behind if it takes you that long every time.

I hurt my ribs again from laughing at you silly man,
Dick

golfol....

ÃÂ Lunging is a problem. Be mindful of keeping that lower body QUIET.

Reminder to gently pre-load right. Quiet takeaway-right there is where problems can start. ÃÂ And watch yourself in a video clip, sliding glass door reflection,ÃÂ or even your shadow.ÃÂ
Note your hip (lateral) movement relative to any fixed vertical reference point.

Good reminder, even if it isn't the problem.

SG

Robert: I agree. Different

Robert: I agree. Different sets of muscles in the forearm, and shoulder, are activated, depending on precise finger pressure. After I bought the Ernest Jones book, I found his teachings to give me much more crisp and solid shots. I fought with the Hogan/Toski teachings for years. It could very well be that my forearm is just not very strong, when placing emphasis on the pinkie and adjacent fingers. I will say that the Jones method led to a vastly improved short game, probably because of thumb/pointing finger "pincer" action that gives great feel.

Thanks Don, IM so glad you

Thanks Don, IM so glad you are back!!

mw

Sorry Amos, The Feeling

Sorry Amos, The Feeling Groovy, was not from me. I do not recall who's idea it actually was.

Robert, Some people use a

Robert, Some people use a death grip on their pens and pencils, too. ;-) I'd be more worried that a pen/pencil grip focuses on thumb and pointer finger, rather than the last three fingers. I believe this is important to ensure that we activate the correct muscles in the arms and not the competing muscles.

In terms of the shoulders, I think there's a good middle ground of releasing tension in the neck and shoulders (so many of us have this inexplicable anxiety when setting up over the ball), rather than "relaxing" them. They need to be ready to do work, which means that neither excess tension nor excess relaxation are any help.

Well in a way T. but we used

Well in a way T. but we used to play games seeing who could skip the absolute "wrong" rock across the lake to the bank on the other side (about a hundred yards). You had to throw the rock that your opponent picked for you. Then you picked one for them. Really round with rough edges and uneven bumps and no flat surface required sheer power and technique to skip it all the way across.
I know, not much of a glamorous childhood. Entertaining ourselves with things like that were like going to Disney World to us.

Edit: Oh and BTW. Until we got up around 12 or 13 years old it wasn't always a boy that won those contests.

Amen Dick, amen.

Surge:

Could you please address hitting a ball on a up and down hill lie?ÃÂ Thanks!

Don

Hi Robert, I am not quite

Hi Robert, I am not quite sure where I am at at the minute, I will video myself next week and post it on you tube.
What I am struggling with is the driver and getting the club coming in to impact from the inside. So I thinking at the top I am chopping wood and not coming down to the toeline. I am not sure what I should be practicing to get this right, I am trying getting a bump going, trying to delay impact,ÃÂ let the club drop a little at the top. Get the right elbow in the pocket. Maybe I am over thinking this and just need to have a simple thought that may help with getting in the slot. Anywhere near coming inside will do as sometimes I must be way off and going right which kills games.
Cheers KeithÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ

What's the advantage of going

What's the advantage of going up to vertical and then dropping the club
into the laid off position with the "loop"? Surge says it's the same
plane up and down, but it can't be if you're laying off the club at the
top. If the forward swing doesn't start where the backswing left off,
then you've got different planes. Why? Why not just go back to the
position you need to be in to come down - the slightly laid off
position?

Surge's swing has helped me a lot, but I didn't eliminate my weak slice
until I gave up on "vertical" and starting laying off the club a little.
It's funny that I'm now seeing that that's what Surge is teaching and
doing himself.

Personally I think Surge gets a little stuck on ideas like "lightness"
for poetic reasons that have nothing to do with what he's actually doing
himself. Sure, it's easier to swing with the club less laid off and
more vertical than what rotational swingers teach, but there's a limit.
If your club is literally vertical you either have to a) curve your
plane on the downswing to get back to the ball, b) come over the top and
slice it, or c) drop back to a better laid off position.

So why the "keep it vertical" motto? Is it just because "keep it
vertical until you get to the top and then drop it back into a better
place" is too clunky?

I thought this was exactly the kind of obfuscation that Surge had dedicated his life's work to clearing up.ÃÂ

Apologies for double post - having some trouble with forum/browser interaction.

Great 'turn' around.

The other day my playing partner had a bad front nine and shot 50. He was moaning at the turn about it so I told him I had shot a 51-40 earlier in the month (little white lie) and that he could do it too. He shot 41 on the back and was pumped.
The 'turn' can be a revitalization zone 'turn' your game around. Well done.

My game? I was 42 on the front. Started the back with par-bird-par-bird(chip in)-par-par 6 putts on 6 holes. bogie - bogie - triple = 39. Sun was dipping and the temp got down to the 40's at the end.ÃÂ 27 putts for the round and lots of positives.

Have fun in Vegas.

TECH CREW:ÃÂ Can you tell

TECH CREW:ÃÂ Can you tell me why all of the videos which I've tried to play from the Sept 2010 archives, are coming up with a video removed message when the play arrow is clicked. I have tried many around the 9/25 to 9/30 days and all are doing the same thing.ÃÂ ÃÂ I haven't tried other months, they may also be non working as well.ÃÂ Thanks.

Post edit: Just tried the first up for the last days of Aug and Sep and they are doing the same.

Good point! I have a sway

Good point! I have a sway problem if I get loose with my lower body. When I concentrate on being stable with my knees I can get the distance and ball flight I want. I came across the Surge by accident about 2 years ago, and since adopting his method have become much more consistent with my ball striking ability. The people on the site are great, and I enjoy the give and take as well. Thanks again for replying.

Noticed at the top of my

Noticed at the top of my backswing my hands are only a little above shoulder height . I slow motioned Don's videos and his hands are high, almost above the ear . Is this ÃÂ a fatal flaw and what are the effects of being too low on the way back . Played nine yesterday and some shots were so good i almost dropped my club. But as in all my rounds I have that one blowup hole where I will start hitting a couple of bad chunks in a row. That eight had me shooting 45, which for me , with 3 pars, isn't bad . Frustrating though because I would be so much better if I didnt blow up. thanks to all

I got the same thing. Aren't

I got the same thing. Aren't those all the ones during the break-up?

Keith,Hope you had a good

Keith,
Hope you had a good session on the range, I know I did with my coach and wife Cindy. She knows my swing and corrects me better than anyone. (next to being able to get it directly from Surge :)

When I had a few lessons the

When I had a few lessons the pro pointed out I was getting the club over the toe line too soon and with the wrists so I was sort of flipping the club in to the SBG, not flat but with too much turn after. Instead of moving the club with the shoulders then hips. I am guessing also that I am missing the importance of the right arm, at the top of the BUS I think I am sort of throwing the club forward going in to the bump with the left arm and maybe not pulling down more with the right arm if that makes sense.
I am going to work more with a short club with this and get a smoother bump going. Also slow my swing down on the take away.
What can I work on without a ball that will help with this so I can get the right feeling?
Cheres Keith ÃÂ

My tentative golf tune to

My tentative golf tune to Amazing Grace:

Amazing swing, how sweet the feel,
that saved my wretched game.
I once was down, but found the Surge;
And now, I can play again.

I set the club behind the ball on "A-"; start the BUS on "maaaa-"; bump into FUS on "-zing"; and recoil and relax on "swing". The remainder of the song puts me in a good frame of mind as I move off to the next shot. It keeps me from getting angry if I hit a bad one.

My pastor wants me to sing Amazing Grace to the tune from Gilligan's Island, but the rhythm isn't right for my golf swing LOL.

Kevin

Hi richard,

I am using it mainly for my short game and my chipping has improved no end in terms of both accuracy and distance; mainly because I now actually have accuracy (LOL).

There is also a practise/exercise, that even rotational swingers use, to improve something or other (can't remember what that might be) where your feet are just about next to each other.

I don't see it as a panacea for anything but something that anyone interested can try for themselves.

Just don't forget that you are still making a Surge swing!

Tina,

Practice the "skipping a stone" drill and not only will you improve your golf swing, you'll learn how to skip stones as well. The drill works really well if you find some nice flat stones and a pond to skip them in LOL!

Kevin

Good for you Lynn. Honestly,

Good for you Lynn. Honestly, my Cindy tries. She wants to hang out with me on our days off and understands that golf is huge in my life and spare time. So her natural supportiveness and has lead her to go with me maybe once every 2 or three times I play she'll play too. I make it fun for her. She can tee it up anywhere, anytime.- Middle of the fairway tee it up? sure. And when she needs a break she just rides and caddies for me. Last December at the Surge tourny in South Carolina she was the only lady riding (with me) among 50 men. If your wife will come with you and video tappe you, God bless you my friend. Who knows, maybe she'll come play with you some day. I'll sell my inside methodes cheap LOL if you need help training (Ha HA ) her. I jest. Life is short, Play more golf!

Here are links to two videos

Here are links to two videos from earlier this year that address the four different hill side lie situations, which I found by typing "Downhill Lie" into the Search box in the right-hand column.

http://swingsurgeon.com/DailyV...

Yes T, I'm having the same

Yes T, I'm having the same response. Did you get any feed back from Support?
BTW, I am still able to track down several favorites through u-tube meanwhile.

Armand, I can appreciate what

Armand, I can appreciate what your saying, however I respectfully disagree. Nearly all professional and better golfers have this little move from the top. It is not laid off after being vertical. It is very, veryÃÂ slight and still comes down on a relatively vertical path. And he does say we should think and feel as though we are coming bavck on the same plan. I agree with Surge that it is much easier to get into that ideal 'slot' if we start our BUS vertically. The drop into that slot is accomodated by the bump and starting our forward move (FUS) with our lower body. The challenge for many of us is that we tend to start our FUS with our shoulders(like chopping wood!)ÃÂ as the club begins coming over the top which is nearly impossible to correct at that point in the less than one second jouney to the swings end. The advantage of vertical? Many, but as it pertains to our backswing, it replicates the farris wheel in being the closest thing to a perfect plane around the axis of the neck. It is the action-reaction from vertical to coming back from slightly inside ÃÂ verses going back laid off (in the SBG)ÃÂ and the natural reaction being to come over the top and infamously across the ball producing the banana slice (or pull) we seek to avoid.
So really Surge IS teaching us to feel as though we are staight back and returning straight down on the same plane. Yes the plane remains the same. In fact he says he fights to keep it the same as he bumps and starts the FUS. My point was that for we amatures seeking to learn it correctly, the tendencies are to start back too flat and the re-act by coming back over the top. There is noÃÂ fault with the metode being taught here. I have improved alot and at times it feels and looks perfect. Consistancy requires we continue to practice the correct moves. I love the journey and Don Trahan has improved my joy in getting there.
So to say vertical is a motto is just not accurate. Vertical is KEY to this whole metodology and is at the heart of what is taught here. Period.

Hey Robert,I just watched the

Hey Robert,
I just watched the video and if those are the bad or mediocre swings I would take them off of your hands. LOL

I know what you are doing though. Those Vegas odds that had Amos at two to one now have you at four to one.

Amos, you better step it up!

Every video for every month

Every video for every month in 2010, which I've tried from the archives, is displaying the same message. Sounds like a tech problem of some kind.

Steve,ÃÂ IÃÂ agree that

Steve,ÃÂ IÃÂ agree that vertical or past the line would be ideal and put us in the best position to come down in the proverbial slot. And our not getting vertical or to 11 is acceptable because most of won'tÃÂ getÃÂ more vertical than that. Surge understands that and that's why the swing is described as the "most verticalÃÂ limited turn and 3/4 swing for our bodies". We each have limits and variable abilities and flexibilities. But 12 or 12:30 would be ideal.ÃÂ

Gman, Here is the top of your

Gman, Here is the top of your personal back swing.
http://www.swingsurgeon.com/Ho...

FYI, To all who were

FYI, To all who were wondering about the Dashboard page not displaying the replies to me link. I finally got a reply from Disqus Support, here it is. BTW, mine is now working.

"If you're not seeing activity in your dashboard tabs, it's something that we
were forced to temporarily stop for maintenance. We're working on re-enabling
this as soon as possible, and all previous activity will be listed there (so
nothing is lost). We understand how important this feature is for you and
apologize for the hassle in the meantime.

Thanks again for using Disqus,"ÃÂ

Ryan
http://docs.disqus.com/
http://twitter.com/disqus

Robert

Great story pal.ÃÂ It sure is nice to have a Proverbs 31 wife.

Glad it is coming together for you.
Dick

As I haven't got the swing

As I haven't got the swing down as I would like yet I am not worrying about distance so increasing swing speed for me I think would create more inconsistency and bad hits.

If you are more advanced and have the swing fully going good then isn't it just a case of increasing swing speed pre impact? Just make sure your swing isn't too casual, nice and smooth on the back upswing through to the bump , down swingÃÂ then increase speed just before impact and make sure to follow through and up to the T finish.

Glad the doc was able to fix

Glad the doc was able to fix up your elbow. Careful with the rotator as you want that to heal up so as not to tear worse of put scar tissue in the middle of your muscle.

I am confused. Did you sell

I am confused. Did you sell your business to Revolution Golf? If not, are the two companies intertwined?

Today reminded me that trying

Today reminded me that trying to relieve stress by going to the driving range results in more stress when you try to crush the little white balls like they're the idiots who've pissed you off. Lots of lunging and other bad things.

I did finally manage to get myself swinging groovy by the end of my bucket (left a few sitting there as I was satisfied with my work for the day). Unfortunately, I didn't get my best swings on video. Just some of my mediocre and bad ones, and one okay one.

It did occur to me that one of the problems I'm having at that range is that the club house restaurant has music playing, and it carries to the range tees. And the tempo on most of it doesn't match my tempo.

Robert Meade:

ÃÂ ÃÂ "The value of a good wife is FAR above rubies" --- SOunds as if you have a "keeper" indeed

ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ Amos

Simply Golf,Another thing to

Simply Golf,
Another thing to keep in mind is that both Don and DJ are very often slightly across the line at the top. Then it really does become critical for the "loop" to happen as there is almost no way to get the club head back to the ball from across the line unless you made a really bad looking move above the desired swing path that would actually be over the top. Fortunately when we do get across the line (which Don has said is a good thing) as long as the hands start back down on the toe line the club will loop back to where it belongs all on it's own without us having to think about it.
I usually don't get across the line but occasionally I do. Most of the time my shaft is from vertical to about 11:45 with irons and (although I don't like it) from 11:30 to 10:45 with a driver. I'm looking forward to getting some more video of my driver swing because I have changed it since I saw it. Also ALL of the driver swings that I make on the course that I play call for a draw (at least that is the safer play) so that causes me to not get quite as vertical as I would like to see.
Maybe with my last change it will be better.

P.S. My most powerful shots are when I do get to vertical and as the hands drop toward the toe line the club head loops to the inside very slightly.

Praise the Lord and the green

Praise the Lord and the green grass he lays down for us to wack the little white ball with our "weapons of grass distruction,"

We do not go to the top and

We do not go to the top and then as you say DROP the club into a laid off position. The laid off position at the top, occurs on it's own as a result of the BUMP and the secondary reverse spine tilt. WHAT we need to do, is fight the urge to let the club become TOO LAID OFF as a result of this action. The natural action of the bump and the secondary spine tilt, IF, controlled properly will naturally place the club into the proper slot to bring it down on. If you haven't seen the Awfyl Flying Right Elbow video, please watch it at this link and pay close attention at around the 1:50 min mark.

VIDEO PRESENTLY INACTIVE:
http://www.swingsurgeon.com/Ho...

Hey that's really good Dan.

Hey that's really good Dan. Maybe next time you'll knock that triple off of there and really have a good one. Sounds like you are making some birdies.
I'm not making enough birdies or eagles lately. I'm staying away from any big numbers and the bogies I'm making are "easy" bogies but too may pars and not enough birdies. (Maybe next time).

Sorry to go off topic, but I

Sorry to go off topic, but I have a question. Lately I've been hitting it pretty solid off the tee, with most of my strikes being close to the center of the clubface. I played the last 2 days, and my shots with the driver have been toward the top half of the clubface, so I have lost some distance and direction. I don't know if it's tee height, or ball position. My irons have been fine, it's just my driver that has regressed. Any suggestions?

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