I don't get a chance to talk about putting all that often, so I thought today would be as good as any to answer a question on the subject. Brian Sullivan sent in a question about plumb bobbing via our customer support page. Plumb bobbing is a putting tip that has been around for a long time. Some people swear by it while others think it's a complete waste of time.
Name: BRIAN SULLIVAN
Request or Help Needed: How to use plumb bobbing with putter on the green
I'll provide my opinions on plumb bobbing today, but I'd also like to hear from you. Have you ever tried it? If so, have you had success with it? Use the comment section below to share your experiences.
This is actually a controversial subject as I've mentioned above because some people think plumb bobbing is a great way to line up putts and others completely disagree. I think the reason some people may not like it is because they don't necessarily know how to do it properly. Personally, I plumb bob when I putt and I think it gives you a good idea as to how the putt breaks.
You'll have to watch the video above to learn all about my technique for plumb bobbing. Though I would recommend plumb bobbing to anyone struggling with the putter, I will say that there's no real exact science to it because putts have more elements than just the way they break. Putts need to have the right speed as well. So, it's really a matter of whether or not you think plumb bobbing can increase your odds of making any given putt.
Because I think it provides me an advantage when reading putts, I choose to plumb bob. Give it a try your next time out and you might just feel the same way!
Keep it vertical!
The Surge
If you can't view the YouTube video above try CLICKING HERE. You must allow popups from this site for the link to work.
Comments
Plumb Bobbing
Regarding today's feature on plumb bobbing---
I've used it for more than 40 years. On relatively flat greens, it provides a certainty of the break.
At a new course, it gives comfort that the read I've made is correct.
If you are able to match speed and the break, the confidence level for the stroke is maximized. No question plumb bobbing 3-10 foot putts is effective for those who have a consistent stroke.
Plumb Bobbing
Serge: Watching your video on plumb bobbing with a putter, a couple of times you mentioned that you use your "dominant eye" but didn't mention how you determine which eye is your dominant eye. New "plumb bobbers" might not know how to do it so here is the simple way. With both eyes open you point at a nearby object with your forefinger and your arm extended. Then close your left eye, if your forefinger is still pointing at the object then the right eye is dominant. If your forefinger is still pointing at the object when your right eye is closed then the left eye is dominant.
Plumb Bobbing Putts
Serge: This still makes no sense. Even the comment references "on a flat green". On flat greens it is always straight. Whenever I plumb bob, the putter shaft ALWAYS lines up straight with the hole because I am lined up directly behind the ball. I guess I must be one of those who doesn't "understand" but I can't understand because it doesn't make sense. You can always draw a straight line (or line up a putter shaft) straight to the hole but that doesn't show you any break that might exist.
That's my take,
LarryK
North Barrington, IL
Plumb bobbing putts
I have a friend who plumb bobs and is quite successful although he has never been able to explain it to my satisfaction and I have never been able to make it work according to his explanation, much the same as Serge's. If you consider just the physics of the plumb bobbing, the putter hangs under the force of gravity so if you don't bias the plumb with your grip it should hang vertical assuming the shaft is straight, when you stand directly inline with the hole and hang a vertical in the plane that includes the middle of the hole, the vertical (putter shaft) will be in line with the hole, and according to the explanation the putt will be straight. However these conditions exist whether the green is sloping left to right, right to left, or no slope (flat). So, I don't believe the plumb bob works to tell break, although the dominant eye may have something to do with this technique that I have not tried. I do plumb bob, but only with the label on the shaft laying over the hole, I align the top of the label with the hole to see if the hole is sloped. Works for me.
Gsquared
Plumb bobbing is useless and faulty ,slows down play
Just consider the geniuses of putting ,the greatest being SEVE BALLESTEROS and TIGER WOODS sometime ago ,before the "events ".Do theyor did they plumb bob ?
Never !
You have your answer .
I'm a seasoned golfer ,age 78 ,I play to a 7 Handicap ,my putting averages 28/32 strokes per round.
I never plumbob ,I don't fuss around the hole ,looking sideways ,from behind the hole ,counting my steps to the hole etc,etc..
I just make one parctice swing behind the ball ,looking at the hole ,I line up ,and then Bang it goes !
As said LEE TREVINO "MISS'EM QUICK "
birdie/bogie
poor old DJ. every time he gets a birdie he seems to follow it with a bogie or worse. must be very frustrating
DJ needs a new coach. What he
DJ needs a new coach. What he's doing clearly isn't working. It's the essence of foolishness to keep doing the same thing expecting different results.
Speaking from the couch
Bennie, It's really easy to have an opinion sitting on your couch. As someone who's watched DJ play up close and heard more first hand, what DJ may need is more work with a short game coach, and more work with his coach, Don. Given that Don worked with DJ leading up to his tournament a couple months ago where he finished T-8 and a couple weeks later when he finished T-15, it seems to me the coaching isn't the problem. You and I have no idea what's going on with DJ beyond a bunch of statistics. He's 8th on tour in Greens in Regulation, hitting more than 70%, so I'd say the long game is not where he's having the issues.
DJs game
I have commented on this before but think it is still relevant. DJ has a tendency to recoil the putter head after striking the ball. Deadly fault, there is no way to putt with this method. He needs to correct this fault and he will be fine.
Putting
Perhaps, then, DJ needs to spend a little time with Steve Stricker. A brief session with Stricker certainly helped Tiger.
Plumb bob
I have been plumb bobbing for as long as I can remember & usually just over the ball to see where the hole is. Will sometimes line the hole over the ball to double check, if in doubt. I believe it is only a guide & that I still need to see the putt in my mind when set up over the ball
Plumb
If it makes you feel good and makes you think you have the right read by all means do it. If you don't do it, don't start it. Find something more productive to get you in your Zen mode.
It won't make you know more than you already knew because you can make ANY putt line up with the vertical putter shaft.
http://puttingzone.com/MyTips/plumb.html
http://www.drputt.com/deardrputt/plumbob.php
Plumb bobing
That is exactly what I feel. You can make ANY putt line with a vertical putter shaft no what the contour of the green is. But I also agree with those who thinks it helps them. Putting is all about confidence and everyone should do what makes them feel comfortable over their putt. AND, usually, if you can see a break clearly, there probably isn't much of one there.
Old "Bob"
This is why Old "Bob" will lie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzpl6OeZ_ao
Interesting reading
Thanks for those links Steve. Interesting reading and educational with some opinion thrown in.
Not opinion
The only way a vertical line can show the slope is if you put the top of the vertical line where you intended to hit the put all along.
Absolutely any putt can be shown as a straight putt or to break either direction if you ignore what you already sense and let the line go from the ball to the hole along that vertical line.
How vertical one can hold their putter has nothing to do with it, as the level in the video I made clearly shows.
I'm not trying to change any plumb bobber's minds because that's never going to happen and no amount of evidence will change it, but just to show others that it's a complete waste of time.
Bob away if it makes you feel better about the read.
Absolutely
I agree completely. Not sure why you think my reference to the both entire articles and everything they said as specifically agruing about your first sentence. I always use the end point "top of the vertical line" as my intended line to hit along. A lot more was said than your key point which I heartly agree with. They also drew conclusions and mentioned what they feel are the pros and cons of plumb bobbing, much of which I agreed with too.
However there were statements that I did not agree with and others that made it seem like all who plumb bob are narrow minded.
For example, in Geoff Mangum's article I personally disagree with his very first primise about plumb bobbing which was, I quote, ".... it only confirms what you already sense,
and doesn't make you a better reader of the break or make your sensing of the start line any sharper."
I feel that that is opinion, his conclusion based on his study, practice and likely his experience too. I respect that. But I completely disagree because I absolutely believe that it does help me see how much it will break and I definitely believe and it has been my experience that it does make my sensing of the start line much, much sharper. I never ignore what I sense and normally the plumb bobbing confirms what I see and feel under my feet and with my eyes.
Here's another example of his lack of knowledge about every ones technique when they plumb bob, "..... The biggest problem is ..... it actually indicates the slope under your feet-- not the slope AT the hole and not the slope BETWEEN the ball and the hole."
TRUE, I agree with that statement but he is not accounting for players like me who do take into account the slope at the hole and between the ball and the hole. I always walk all the way up to the hole and then plumb bob with in 5 feet of the hole then say at 15 feet and 30. I carefully check high and low points. I look for multiple breaks, up hill, down hill and much more. So his statement assumes that those who plumb bob are shallow and don't consider slope by and between the ball and hole. His opinion on what plumb bobbers do was dead wrong about me any way and perhaps many other long time golfers who understand that there is a lot to putting and reading greens,
I'm not going to continue to go through his whole article and the other informative one you posted. Again, they were educational and informative but not every word was gospel or truly reflects what many astute golfers consider when putting. There is room for understanding that we are not all the same in our reading putts whether we are plumb bobbers or not.
Articles
Articles? I didn't write them I just posted them.
I arrived at my conclusions after plumb bobbing for several years and then doing some fact based experiments to come to my conclusions.
I agree with the article on the points you disagreed with but I disagree with the article on the points where they give plumb bobbing WAY more credit than I do.
If the video I made doesn't convince someone that the plumb bob can't determine what you don't already know then nothing ever will. It's a right to left slope of 5 inches of drop over a 24 inch wide span showing a straight putt. Any plumb bobber would have moved to the left making the plumb bob show what they already knew. Good thing because if they didn't they would look like a fool when they played it straight and it broke a foot.
Vertical line shows slope
Steve, I really enjoy reading all your comments. When I plumb-bob, which is not all the time, I am looking for the angle between the shaft and the ground on the line between the ball and the hole. If I see a right angle, I can be pretty sure the putt will be relatively straight. If the angle of the ground line to the left of the shaft is greater, then I know the break is from right to left. The opposite will be true for a left-to-right break. The greater the angle, the more break is present. As has been said there are many other factors involved. One that I look very carefully at is the Fall Line on which a ball that starts rolling will roll straight down hill to the hole. Knowing that and the angle of the slope, I can pretty much get the line right. My problems almost always relate to speed control.
When I was playing with my brothers 2 weeks ago, I had a putt of 6 feet directly at the hole. Unfortunately, my ball and the hole were both on a slope that had about a 4-1/2 foot break (as observed from one of my brothers putts. I found the fall line, plumb-bobbed the slope, and from the two determined that I should play a five foot putt uphill to the fall line. When the ball reached the fall line, it almost stopped and then rolled straight down to the hole. I have done this several times in my golfing life and it continues to amaze those I play with. I wish I could do the straight putts as well.
Not surprised
Steve, sometimes you seem a bit sensitive(I guess we all are at times). I read both articles and noticed that aside from the interesting facts and great information that each seemed to feel a certain way about there over all conclusion. That's what I meant by opinion. I did not say they weren't accurate in there assessments and conclusions. By no means did I say all of what they wrote (not what you added I was talking about the articles you posted) was opinion. On the contrary, most of their facts were facts. I just feel that at the end of the day we all are still persuaded by our own experience and opinion through personal experience. Your saying it is a complete waste of time indicates your conclusion and that's perfectly okay just as mine, Surge's and the experience of several other players that have responded strongly conclude that plumb bobbing absolutely helps them make putts. It's not a perfect system as I readily said when I mentioned that there is a lot else involved, ie. double, triple breaks, over all slope, break close to the hole, wet, fast, slow, grain, et. Plumb bobbing is just part of the reading process.
When all is said and done those that have personal success using the technique are of the opinion (based on experience) that it works for them, others like yourself conclude it's a waste of time. Your saying that there is no bias or opinion at the end is condescending. You definitely have an opinion based on your study and experience. Others have a differing opinion based on their experience. Can't you allow for that?
BTW, my response to your post was meant to be complimentary and appreciative of it. That's why I said it was interesting and educational. You always post helpful info just as many others do.
Sensitive
It's not sensitive to totally disagree with you (and Surge).
It seems that any dissenting voice that doesn't fall in lock step with everything Surge says is always "sensitive" or worse.
It's fine for you to write multiple paragraghs extolling the great virtues of plumb bobbing but it's being "sensitive" when I think it's complete quackery and say so.
Only a game
Now that is funny. I think the only way to settle this, once & for all, is handbags at dawn.
Settle
Nothing to settle. Bobbers will bob and the rest of us will stay dry. ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwzK6x-dZJg
"Quack Quack"
Steve,
That's not the first time you have refered to the "lock step" or a similar comment.
The only thing that really comes to mind is Nazi's and Hitler.
I was using the plumb bob long before I started with the PPGS. Oh, I am guilty of normally agreeing with what most of what Surge teaches and recommends for sure. Dissenting voices are fine. It's only when people are rude that it takes an ugly turn ( not you, I am referring to the trolls we have had in the past that only want to tear down, not encourage or help others here). It's too bad you misunderstood my first response after your posting the videos and links. I was actually complimenting you on the educational and informative thoughts shared by you with those in depth links. You thought that I was referring to your home made video and that one thought about a vertical line when I said the word opinion which I wasn't. I was only referring to the additional links of which of course I know you didn't write. In those two there was some great info and yes they did give their opinion on the pluses and minuses of plumb bobbing. Yes they did put plumb bobbers in a narrow minded category that assumes we don't consider the many aspects of reading greens but simply judge the putt from behind and down the line. That was one of the opinions that I did not agree with. BTW of which I did not condemn either you just assumed I did. Any how, I found your reference to 'lock step' very offensive, particularly on Memorial week end when we are honoring our men and women who have served and given their lives to free us from those like the German Nazi's.
Like DH, you won't need to expect that I'll ever reply to any of your comments in the future. I'm all done.
Correction
Meant to say if you "can't" see a break clearly.
Bob that Plumb ...
OK - I read a while ago about the theory of plumb bobbing, and have used it a lot ever since, especially on greens where the direction and amount of slope is questionable. I might mention I have used the same putter for years, know its balance well, and how it hangs vertical, so I KNOW when it is telling me left or right and by how much. I do agree that it is not necessary, but more of a conference builder which is everything in putting.
"Put the ball in the hole" - what my Dad said when I asked him how to putt.
Down the middle,
Jon
Plumb Bobby Plumb
Yes I plumb bob. I have found that I can do it quickly and efficiently without holding any one up. I am in the "it works for me" camp. I do find that it does help me figure out the break and then if my speed is correct and I roll over my spot it will often go in. My misses can be contributed mainly to too much pace. I sometimes power through the break rarely missing on the low side. I use a combination of computations aside from plumb bobbing including uphill, downhill, wet, fast, lowest part of the valley (in the Las Vegas valley they say everything breaks toward the Stratosphere Hotel which is along one of the lowest points in our huge valley.). If it is a longer putt, anything over 10 feet I will check closer to the hole at say 5 feet because most of the major effect of the break happens closer to the hole especially as the ball slows down. Then too, sometimes there are two or three breaks over the 30-40 foot putts. That makes plumb bobbing from 40 feet away worthless. Hence, that's another reason why I walk closer to the hole to see what's happening those last 5-10 feet. again, I do nearly all of this long before it is my turn. In any case I calculate quickly and go. Some times it looks like a straight putt from behind but with in that 5 feet even a slight slope will move the ball left or right at the end. I agree with Dave Stockton who says that while both are important, pace/speed is paramount as we don't want to have a long second putt should the first not go in. Having said that I never think in terms of lagging but always have a sink it mentality. That is why I likely have more one putts and three putts than some golfers because I am always going for it. I am working on more consistent pace and distance. Having 5,6 feet left can be painful.
So to plumb bob or not? This Bobby does it all the time and am a believer. One thing for sure, it helps me commit to a line. Without commitment any thing that goes in would be just a good guess.
One note: I don't do what Surge mentioned when he says he holds the putter vertical and has the shaft in line with the hole to see which side of the shaft the ball is seen. I just do the second part which is to hold the shaft so that the ball is seen at the lower half and then I can see which side and where it plumbs in relation to the hole. Then once convinced I pick my spot with in 1 foot on that line. At that point if I go with it and hit my mark I often sink it. If I second guess myself re-lining again (there's the lack of commitment) I will miss it most of the time. First choice and following through gives me the best chance. Then it's all about pace and speed.
Plumb Bobbing
I've plumb bobbed for over 40 years, and I find it informative. It's not time consuming, and can be done while someone else is putting. It's a much better method than the "walk around Sue" method some of the people are using to maintain pace of play. Aiming your putts and getting the line is all about personal preference, however some are less time consuming than others. "Everybody has their own preferences." said the old lady as she kissed the cow's behind.
plumb bob
I crouch behind the ball and use my dominant eye to line up ball to hole. then I put the putter vertically over the ball and the shaft indicates the correct line of the putt. all I have to do then is hit the ball exactly on that line at the correct speed! May your putts be few.