As long as I've been teaching the Peak Performance Golf Swing, I've had rotary golfers insist that my methods are wrong. I've always been able to handle the critics, especially because my swing is the only swing that is based entirely on the laws of physics, physiology, and anatomy. The PPGS is based on facts, pure and simple.
John Butcher has been improving his game after switching to the PPGS, but he isn't quite sold on every aspect. He submitted a comment suggesting that swinging "up the tree" isn't anatomically correct. So, I'll spend today demonstrating why a vertical swing is the better swing and how the PPGS was developed to match the way the body is designed to move.
Hi Surge,
I have followed your teaching for over a year and have profited from your tips. But I'm not sure that swinging vertically, "up the tree," as you say, is anatomically correct. Isn't the plane really being established based on proper shoulder elevation, flexion of right elbow and rotation? And doesn't this "rotary" swing take all the timing out of the motion and allow us to move anatomically to a powerful position to unload? Maybe we just have different ways of swinging. But I have done better with this simpler backswing. It sets the club on its proper plane. There is no guess work as to how "vertical" the club needs to be. My club is still "light," especially when it comes down into the slot. And isn't that what matters?
Thanks,
John Butcher
Columbia, Missouri
Swinging with a big turn just isn't in harmony with gravity, which means you won't have an optimum impact position. By using your body the way it was designed to move, you can avoid the big miss and injuries. Your path and plane should be vertical so that the club remains light. A light club is a lot easier to swing than a heavy club. What type of club are you swinging?
Keep it vertical!
The Surge
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Comments
club lie angle
Hi Surge,
When changing from around the body swing to your vertical path swing
would this create a need to alter the lie angle for one`s irons??
Wondering,
GB [Aus]
Lie angles
GB,
Your thinking is logical. However my experience has been that our arm length and posture through impact establish the lie angle as much as our swing being relatively vertical or more rotational. For example Surge himself says that his lie angles on his clubs are set a couple of degrees flatter (not standard or more upright). Surprised? His explanation (if memory serves me right) is that it is because his arms are long for his height and body. So having a more upright (vertical) swing may or may not change your actual dynamic impact club head angles. However, having your irons checked with a quality fitter is paramount for all golfers. I check and adjust mine several times a year. I do this because having our lofts and lies correct for us and our swing is more important than most appreciate. Keep in mind that this needs to be done dynamically on a lie board.
GB, I know that was a long, round a bout way of answering your question but the main point is that adapting the PPGS swing may or may not cause a need to change the lies on your clubs. The back swing is more vertical and the follow through is more vertical but not through impact.
Here's a previous answer to your question
https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/determining-lie-angles
THANK YOU SURGE
All I can say is the PPGS method has transformed my swing and my game in amazing ways that I never dreamed possible. Thank you Surge...........
Iron slump
May or may not apply to anybody else:
I was in a slump with my irons for a couple of weeks and couldn't figure out what the problem was.
Today after a horrible ball striking day I went to the back yard to figure it out (or quit the game...Just joking!)
Turned out that my back elbow was falling too much in front of my ribs when falling into the slot making it extremely hard to square up the club face. As soon as I figured it out I was hitting the ball very well.
Funny how much difference an inch or two can make.
The Funny Bone
Steve, one time I tried passing the elbow in front of my ribs as a means to generate more lag/power, all I was doing was blocking or or dragging the ball, not very funny, LOL.
Funny Bone
My funny bone needs to touch my side at the center of my body from a down the line view. Instead it was touching my side about an inch front of center.
I'm pretty sure that ideal point would not be the same for everybody, and it appears that it's not even the same between DJ and Surge. The ideal point for me is likely closer to center than for many people. BTW my submarine throwing motion also has the throwing elbow closer to center than most people that throw equally as hard.
I'm not sure it's a technical advantage one way or the other but more of an individual thing. It's worth the effort to find what's ideal for us.
funny bone
Steve, thanks for your comments. As the season ends here in Michigan, my driver is doing well, but my irons have become inconsistent and I haven't been able to pinpoint what is off. Your comment got me "feeling" what may be off and this could be it. Hope to go out tomorrow and give it a try. Thanks, Paul
Rotary swing issues
I have used a rotary type swing for years and have done fairly well with it all things considered but Mr. Trahan has what I believe to be a very good argument for a vertical type swing. I have always had trouble getting the right elbow trapped behind the body and that has resulted in me getting too inside out in the downswing, which has resulted in a lot of pushing with the driver. Try as I might when I try to get the 90 degree shoulder turn the right elbow will get behind the body to some degree, EVERY time. For anyone with flexibility issues such as poor external shoulder rotation and others, a more vertical swing should be looked into and I certainly plan on doing it.
Practice swing/s prior address and strike
Hi Surge,
Couldn't find another site to post this on.
I am a Brit, have been following your method for over 3 years and have saved nearly all of your daily videos since I started. Unfortunately over that time I have played less and less regular golf. Consequently some old habits creep in but I do my best to correct them. I have more success with "in catchers mitt to up the tree" with mid irons and certainly hit them straighter. Wish I could still play to my 12 handicap more regularly.
What I see though in my travels is players practicing swings that they do not
actually use when they hit the ball. For example Putters set themselves up ,swing the club short of the ball (ie nearer to their feet) and then just move their putter behind the ball . Iron players swish around the ball and then get themselves ready to hit it differently. In my mind they are, in effect, practicing to hit it incorrectly . I thought the idea of a practice swing was to feel the shot you wanted to play.
What is your advice on any pre-shot routine?
Thanks , David Littlestone
pre-shot routine
Here some answers;
https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/surges-pre-shot-routine
Here's a follow up;
https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/all-clubs-use-same-setup
practice swing;
https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/how-make-perfect-practice-swing
and....
Having played with Surge a couple of times I would this about his routine. He normally uses a range finder to help evaluate his shot and club choice. Also he plays very fast.
Interestingly (to me any way), last time out I did two things different. One, I did not use my range finder all day. At the Muni we frequently play they have the 100,150,200 and 300 yards marked by various colored stakes. It is fairly easy to guesstimate the yardage. It simplified my assessments and allowed me to get into target mode sooner. Secondly, because we had groups ahead holding us up (as we often do on this busy course) I decided to just relax and be less 'intense' than usual. I took more time to visit with my wife and talk about things other than the golf at hand. then when it was my turn I then went through my set up routine quicker than usual. Choose club and shot, judge alignment and target, step in, took one practice swing (yes a full normal swing), then stepped, and with a few seconds hit the ball. I shot a 37 for the nine (really good for me) and so I have been reflecting on my process and what worked well. I think the simplified set up routine was key.
if its against anatomy and science how does it work then?
not read all the comments so sorry if this is repeating what someone else has said. i;m a big fan of Don but his continual statement that the rotational swing is against science and anatomy simply defies logic. a few weeks ago Don stated that he was on one side and 99% of other golfers and teaching pros were on the other rotational side. by that logic 99% of golfers should be finding it impossible to hit the ball. do they?. by Dons reckoning most pros are performing daily miracles even if they go round in 80 rather than the mid 60s that most of them do quite regularly.. the PPGS may indeed be easier to execute for the average golfer but Don should surely stop saying that the rotational swing is against science and anatomy, if it was it wouldnt work at all.