Do Not Hit Down

I like good gravy. Especially over nice fluffy mashed potatoes, maybe a serving of buttered noodles on the side, yum!

You say you absolutely need to hit with a descending blow. That is not entirely true. Not even in the strictest sense of the process, which is what you are trying to prove. The bottom of an arc or circle segment, does have a bottom. Any circular object can be set and balanced on the bottom of it's arc. If there is a bottom to the arc, it is possible, though very unlikely, that you can make contact with the ball at the very bottom of this arc, where, for that split instant, the arc bottoms out and begins it's upward assent. I maintain, trying to come as close to this point for ball contact, achieves better ball contact, control and distance, than trying to smash the ball into the turf. It does require better tempo, timing and skill though. Much the same as that of Moe Norman, one of the best ball strikers of all time, even so called by the great Tiger Woods. Give his ball picking, not digging, SWING, a little Utube study. In regard to getting more distance from hitting down instead of up or level into the ball, give that a try with your Driver and see what happens. Everybody knows that more distance is gained with an upward or LEVEL CONTACT, then you will get from a downward contact which imparts high backspin and a ballooning ball flight. If hitting down gives you the best distance and control, you should be hitting your driver into the ground also, and NEVER EVER, use a tee on a par three. Just my thoughts on the subject.

T,

Unfortunately, there are those who believe that, if you are giving part of it away for free, you must give it all away for free. I sometimes wonder if these "discussions" would go on, and on, and on, if everyone on this blog had to belong to the Inner Circle to make a post and all non-members could only read what Inner Circle member posted. Would they pay to be an Inner Circle member? I think not.

Kevin

hello SURGE NATION:

   another installment in the continuing travails of a "wanna-be" golfer:

    hit 10 of 14 fariways, 175 yard driving average.
    4 GIR resulting in 5 pars and 6 bogies.
    but the bad side: 1 bunker and 2 in the water!
    4 - three putt greens vs only 1 one putt resulting in 39 putts used. I can rememeber when I have used that many putts.  When the putter "takes the day off" the score really soars. Specailly after I was making everything from everywher on the practice green before the start!

    49 + 46 = 95 -- highest round in at least 3 months.

     I also made the obsevation that a SUPER shot can get you in as much trouble as a poor shot. on the first hole, my intended 6 iron layoup was struck so pure, that ir flew further and my normal 5 iron total distacne -- hit hate and bounced stragint into the canal!   And that was jsut the beginniig!!
 
     Keep hittting them STRAIGHT and LONG

     Amos

I would agree hitting excessively down creates problems for most folks, but I do not understand how you can take any divot (shallow or deep) in front of the ball unless you hit down on the golf ball.  Hence, a descending blow on the ball is required.  It is my observation that the steepness of the shot decreases as the club increases.  The least steep being the driver and FW woods, and steepest being the wedges and short irons.  I have also read that the maximum divot depth should be 4" in front of the ball.  However, I do like the flight and control of all FW shots when I take a slight divot of 2" in front of the ball.  On occassion I have noticed I have hit thin or bladed shots and still made a divot which puzzled me.  Thanks for the post, they are always informative and helpful.

Mine was a bit rushed too as the batteries run low, I wanted to video more.
I will again next week for sure. 

 Steve,

How big are the heads of your drivers? A friend of mine went back to hitting a drive with a head the size of a 3-wood because he just couldn't hit the large ones. He took one he had from the '70's and put a new shaft in it. Maybe it is just a visual thing with you, too.
BTW, he also hits a 1-iron better than his FWs.

Kevin

Steve

I did not know what else to call it.  I know it is the generic pic they give you if you don't want your real picture up there.

Maybe that is the way he really looks, and he is just doing a cameo appearance.

He sure knows everything about a bunch of stuff.  I am surprised a man that busy being an expert on so much stuff has time to waste being on here trying to get us all straightened out.
Dick

OK, No sense in trying any further. We will agree to disagree. I will continue to hit up, and you continue to hit down.

I just finished my best front 9 of the season/EVER(41) , the back 9 is a different story,(mental melt down)  but since making the transition to Surges Peak Performance... all I can say is Thanks Surge and DJ. Maybe, one day I will be able to put together a front 9 and back 9... 

Amos, bruttal my friend. I hit the ball much better this morning. Played my 9 holesbefore 8am and work at 9am. Fair results,43 but could have been much better because of a poor short game on at least 3 holes. Bad scoring start. 6,6. Then 4 on the 175 par 3. Followed by a bogus then a birdy on the par 4 14th. Beautiful drive, nice high 5 iron to back right middle of the green. Pin wasback left so I still had a 35 ft putt. Bingo left to right bottom of the hole. Finished bogie, bogie, par.
The great thing about the round is I confirmed the ball striking progress my wife(coach) found on the driving range. There were several times when everything went right. I hit every fairway today. Most of my drives were straight and long(long for me- 235-245). Hit several good second shots. I missed 4 putts under 6 feet. Make those and I shoot 39. I can see it coming folks.
I am playing again tomorrow morning. Need to get in as many reps as possible before I meet my club fitter on Tuesday morning at 8:49am at the muni @ Palo Alto for our initial meeting and 9 holes of golf before my calgolflab.com fitting.
The two biggest reasons for my recent improvement is the master set up and setting up my FUS by getting into a better takeaway and more vertical at the top@3/4's.
PMG
Robert Meade

Ian,

go away

The quote was "even God can't hit a 1 iron" and it was made in context of what to do if a storm came up, this after having been struck by lightning. Answer: hold up a 1 iron and the quote is the reason.

For those interested in tracking him on Shot Tracker, DJ is on the 10th tee now.

Sometimes when I hit a bad shot I need to give myself an uppercut!  I like this swing thought of my right arm powering the club into the forward mitt and up the tree, thanks.

Good luck tomorrow, Bob

They are not any fun to golf with or bowl with, or do anything with for that matter. I golf and bowl with that type from time to time. They want to coach you on everything you do even though you are scoring better than them. Unsolicited advice and critique on what you are doing wrong and what you need to do to correct it. They just love to be the know it all about everything, and can't wait to get their fame by telling you. Hey buddy here's what you're doing wrong, come over here and I"LL show you how to do it right.

If DJ is so darn good, why doesn't he ever win an event?  Start talking about him after he wins something.

Robert:

    I understodd you. My goal goal is to eliminate ONE side of the sourse but which side varies with the hole being played.  Most of time eliminating the RIGHT side of fairway is great, but we have two or three holes where eliminating hte LEFT side of the course is vital.
    These golf course architects are tricky devils -- give you a really inviting wide fairway target down the left. Looks really cool until you get there and find yourself with a difficult approach around a tree and ove a bunker. Where the right side of the fairway is harder to hit, but offers a much easier approach shot.

     Keep hitting them STRAIGHT and LONG

     Amos

Boog,
That's a tough deal that your son has Aspergers. I had not heard of it so just did a google search. As parent my heart goes out to you and your son. From what I read, sometimes ones withy this condition become especially skilled in certain areas. Maybe golf can be one and it seems that you're hoping to share that with him. I too would love to attend a Swing Sugeon school. Who knows, maybe we'll meet at the same one some day. Thanks for your great attitude Boog. Your comments are heartfelt and like many of the guys here I can sense you're a good guy and probably a passionate parent. I wish you and your family the best.

Nice eagle on #16 (his 7th of the day)! Keep it going DJ!

Surge,Amen! The "trigger" I am working on in my swing right now, is after completion of the backswing and the slight weight-shift bump, the image I have is like I was delivering a hard upper-cut punch to the chin to someone standing on the target line, just forward of my left side. If you do that without a club in your hand you will end up in the perfect T-Finish-hands high above your left ear, forearms forming a perfect equilateral triangle with the elbows on the base parallel to the ground. With this swing thought you can control the club head speed at will. Sometimes you're just landing a punch on the chin, sometimes, you want to land the knock-out punch. Clearly, your hands (and the clubhead) travel downward from the top of the backswing, but if you want to deliver the knock-out punch, it's not what you're thinking about.Keep It Vertical Soars With Eagles

As Robert F pointed out, the club impacts the ball at roughly the bottom of the ARC. Pardon the caps please. They are meant as an attention-getter, not shouting. An arc has a smooth curvature. There is no "flat" at any point, so what you and many others have a misconception about the swing (I used to have that misconception before Surge enlightened me). If you are turning about a center, in order to have a flat spot, you would have to stop the turn, move at a tangent to the curve, and then resume the turn, all in less than one thousandth of a second. If you try to create that flat spot, I doubt that you can make a correct swing of any type, IMHO.

I have recently learned to do what Surge says and swing from the top of the backswing (TOBS) to the T-Finish without being concerned about what is in between. The club will take care of the ball. I try not to even think about the ball, other than it being in the middle of the path through which I want to swing. Unfortunately, my brain cannot follow the club hitting the ball unless I do it in extremely slow-motion.

I guess the really simple answer is don't hit the ball. Swing the club and let the ball get in the way.

Kevin

 Glad to hear you have a similar style. I guess, I just lucked out with the recent purchase and inquires, having them send me one for free. I kind of thought it should be included with the purchase in the first place.

It is already here. You only get so much for free Don. Sometimes you have to actually pay for the good stuff. Because you were not sarcastic like some of the others though. Here are a couple links which show Don and his son DJ, who plays with this swing on the PGA tour, swing each club in progression. Cheers

Don
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

DJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Surge Nation

Good night lads.  I have to get up at 0430 hours to get ready to work at the course tomorrow.

I hope everyone who is blessed to get in a round tomorrow has a great game.  I can't wait to hear all about them.

I am going to check tomorrow, just to make sure the rednecks who are running the course know how to operate those sprinkler things.

Going horizontal for a few hours before I have to get vertical again,
Dick

Ian,

If you don't think Surge is a "normal" golf instructor, why don't you go find one who you think is "normal"?

Personally, I like him the way he is. I can see my local PGA professional, who doesn't believe in the Surge Swing and won't teach it, if I want normal. He would have me back in the rotational swing so quick that my golfing life would be over due to back and knee injuries.

Please, go find someone with whom you can agree and leave the rest of us with Surge.

Thank you for your kind consideration. I pray that you choose wisely.

Kevin

Keith,

What you need to understand is that most of us beat-up, decrepit golfers have to adjust the swing somewhat to fit our bodies in order to play decent or good golf. Having said that, here is my take (I know Steve will disagree, but we do that a lot anyway ;-)).

According to the Foundations Manual for the Peak Performance Golf Swing (pg 97), the mitt is on the Target Line behind the ball - not on the toe line. The turn is not yet complete until the left arm (for a right-handed golfer) is parallel to the toe line. What should be obvious to you, based on geometry, is that, at this point, the clubhead should not have reached the toeline yet, but the turn stops and the lift continues vertically (or as close to it as we can manage - we're not perfect.). The lifting action, combined with keeping the palms perpendicular to the ground will bring the clubhead onto the toe-line. Looking at this segment of the backswing gives the appearance of the clubhead passing from the outside edge of the tree to the inside edge of it. The outside edge is the toe line and the inside edge is at the ankles.

Now, here is where we get into the problem of semantics and parameters that is the cause of the disagreement. On page 101, paragraph 5 states: "A line drawn from the butt of the club to the ground, is within acceptable parameters if it passes through anywhere from the top of the right shoulder to the base of the neck, as seen above, and down to the top of your shoelaces. The line can go as far back as your ankle, but if it goes behind your heels, you are too flat and inside, in the sacred burial ground. If it goes anywhere beyond your toes, you are too upright and outside."

According to Don, the SBG is "behind the heels." The parameter at ground level is from the toes to the heels. At shoulder height, it is from the base of the neck to the point of the shoulder joint. If the butt of the shaft (and your hands) are between your shoulder and your neck with the butt of the shaft pointing between your toes and your heels, you have made an "acceptable", although not "perfect" Surge swing.

So, in a sense, you are both tripping around the parameters of the swing. You are at one end of acceptable, while Steve is at the other end of the parameters. BUT, you are both within acceptable limits.

Kevin

Brian

Yes, you did explain your thought very well. 

Great point.
Dick

When I said there were several holes when everything went RIGHT, I meant it went correct or good:) Im eliminating the right side.Tis my goal:)

so go PAY for lessons

I'm here whenever you're ready.  I'd suggest getting to a place that has a launch monitor and use a club (driver) that is completely foreign to you.  Whenever you want to know the information and procedure for me to build you a driver, I'd be more than happy to email you the fitting questionnaire.

We hear a lot of these same arguments every time Surge advises against the swing thought of hitting down on the ball, first because most people don't understand that he's talking about the THOUGHT of hitting down on the ball. All of Surge's thoughts that he tries to get us to employ are to get us to focus on the SWING, not the BALL. Hitting down focuses on the ball.

In the physical act of the swing, the ball is best struck as close as possible to the nadir of the swing arc, preferably just before it with most irons and just after with fairway woods and driver. For irons technically the club is still traveling down at the moment of impact. For a successful swing, though, focusing on the moment of impact is actually a bad thing. As the video a couple days ago says, "Impact Happens." If you set up correctly and swing correctly you will hit the ball where you want most of the time (also assuming you have the right club for the job).

Kevin, I hope you have better luck with that sleep thing than I did, lol

According to your teaching the function of "HITTING DOWN" on the ball is taboo. Please explain how backspin is achieved unless an element of downward striking is employed whenplaying  the ball especially with the short irons
ThanksTony Brass UK

If 9 out of 10 of the best pros take a divot when hitting an iron, I am going to suspect that the best iron shot is to take a divot. Hitting down means not trying to hit under the ball. Making contact with the ball before the arc at the bottom is reached produces the spin that tends to keep the ball on the green. I think we are overreacting to the "hitting down" verbiage. Playing on a well groomed course does not cause pain when taking a divot. Only a hard surface causes that. I suspect that many of the devensive minded responders here are playing on very dry courses. 

The camera, like your shadow, tells no lie.  Golfers, pass on the "shadow" test

More, more , more.....and thanks

John

Don,

I lovethe lessons and tips. Thank you.

Please trim that branch that you keep hitting in you follow throughs. 

Keith,

I totally understand that frustration - been there, done that. Believe it or not, it actually is as easy as skipping a stone. We, especially me, tend to make it more complicated than it is. That is why there are so many golf instructors, coaches, analysts, and trainers out there making millions every year, trying to keep us in that mode. Then, along comes Don "The Swing Surgeon" Trahan, who tells us that it really is that simple. Look at what happened to Charles Barkley with all the thousands of swing thoughts. I know it can be difficult to get it all together, but the KISS principle actually is best. If you have already learned the proper set-up for the Surge Swing, get in front of a mirror, preferably full-length, and put yourself in the top-of-the-backswing position. Compare your position to Surge's position. Once you have a comfortable TOBS (I just love acronyms;-D), then practice going from the set-up position to TOBS without thinking of anything else. This will get easier fairly rapidly. When you have that semi-ingrained, put yourself in the T-Finish position, and go backwards to the TOBS position. Swing forward to the T-Finish. Practice going back and forth until you can repeat the two positions fairly consistently. After that, just work the sequence: set-up, TOBS, T-Finish; set-up, TOBS, T-Finish; set-up, TOBS, T-Finish. Lastly, let a ball get in the way. Don't start thinking about hitting the ball. The only things to consider: set-up, TOBS, T-Finish. That is as simple as it gets and it works. When I do that the ball goes straight, high, and long, right at my target. If I don't, then ...

Don't give up, just refocus. Start looking at the forest instead of the trees. Develop a "Feel for the Swing" and then "Swing the Feel."

Good luck,

Kevin

I am going outside to attempt to perfect all the knowledge and wisdom that Surge dispenses on this unworthy member of God's creation ;-P

Kevin