The Science Behind the Swing: Part 3

Surge--thank you very much for parts 1, 2, and 3 on the science behind the swing. Now we have the reseach data as well as the science analogies that you use to explain the swing. Now I have evidence for the gang around the lunch table after a round. You may not remember, but we talked on the phone for about a hour 15 months ago, but we didn't get to this level of "proof." Given my past history in research, I now feel complete, and you cannot imagine how that makes me feel. I am grateful for this view of the Surge Swing in relationship to golf as an experiemental science. Furthermore, to hear it from you in such an informal setting added so much value to the information, Reading it on my own woud have been one thing, but hearing it from you has made it a much richer experience. Thank you,

Type your comment here.Hi Phil
Many thanks to you and the other PPGS followers for your kind help to my enquiry.
Looking at the swings it looks as if the take away is pretty much picking the club with the wrists and not in a one piece take away..........is this correct what I am seeing and thinking or is this wrong ?
The clubshaft should not go behind the toe line on the backswig is this a good thought ?

Look forward to your feedback and sincere thanks for all your help

You busted Amos. Glad you are on to him. I figured that out a long time ago.

Amos is just like dad. If you turn your back on them, it is all over.
Dick

Janet

"Madame clerk, you are out of order." That is what the judge said to one of the clerks cause she ripped into him because he was going too fast with his orders at the end of a long day. We all had a great laugh about it, but I will bet it was a little tense around the court room for a few days.

You are right, there are bad apples in every barrel. I never had any problems coming down on a dirty cop. I worked internal affairs a lot. It is bad enough when a citizens breaks the law. When a cop does it, that is even worse. I helped some bad cops find another line of work and even put a few under the jail house. Bad cops hate internal affairs cops. We had a little group of guys who knew I was closing in on their operation, so they decided to go after me and try to cause me trouble to get the heat off themselves. Their motto was "Dick Lee, before he Dicks you." They lost. I still have my "Retired" badge, and all they got were matching mug shots and ID numbers.

Dick

Albert,
I respect your opinion and your desire to see more free demonstrations. However, using words like "Please" and phrases such as, "Could you" or I would really like to see" rather than demanding what you want is likely to yield more positive results.

Stay verticle,

Kevin Pouder

Great work, Dean!

DAN, Thanks, I just discovered that through Google search. I actually discovered a good site with picture instructions to follow, which i am going to post the link to for R2. Here it is in case you want to save the link.
http://conservatives4palin.com...

The problem is you don't understand vertical as it applies to the swing. In the correct position at the top of the back swing the club is over the shoulder and not the head. If you do the swing correctly it will not cause a shoulder injury.

Bob, I've been having the same problem.I have a p 3pro swing simulator and found that I have a slight outside in shot that will go left of the target and then come back to the right. What I found that fixes it is that ( like what serge says) you have to hit the bell at the top of your swing. Your hips start towards the target first which delays the timing squaring the club face instead of the club face being closed causing the pull. Hope this helps did for me

Hello Harry and Steve,

Back last spring, when Surge was recovering from his heart surgury, Doc Griffin gave a very good lesson on exactly how to interpret the concept of 'in the mitt and up the tree.' I did a search, but the audio portion of that days blog apparently did not make the trip from the "dark side" over to this site.

I'll paraphrase what I remember, and hopefully, Doc will chime in and fill in the blanks.

In the origional illustration of the catcher and the tree, the tree is not located in the correct spot in the picture. The outside of the trunk should be in line with the catchers mitt and the inside of the tree trunk should be in line with the toeline. When we lift the club into the mitt and up the tree, we actually reach the mitt on the outside of the tree and sweep the club up diagonally until reaching the inside of the tree, then straight up. The motion which occurs between the outside of the tree to the inside of the tree corresponds with the turning of the shoulders and the rotation of the arms, "needed to get the toe of the club facing up." Once the inside of the tree, "the toeline," is reached, the shoulder turn ends but we continue to lift our arms and the club straight up the inside of the tree.

This is truly a one piece takeaway, as Surge describes in the foundation manual and the training videos.

Once again, if you haven't purchased the videos and manual yet, you are going to struggle with the terminology and learning the swing. The cost is a pittence when compared with the money you would spend on instruction from a pro and the corresponding range time needed to groove the swing by doing it on the cheap.

Hit'em Long and Straight,
Bob

avguy- welcome to this site : Some good people, some good swing thoughts found here,
as we all work on finding a comfortable, functional swing.

Thanks for your perspective above. I share your concern for impact on the shoulder, but
am not qualified to formally address that subject. However, I do understand MY
shoulder injury, and it was caused by....you guessed it, repeated vertical lifting.

Lets see....18 holes, 3 practice swings per...that's a freakin' lot of "keeping it vertical."
The potential for repetitive motion injury seems significant. Rolfer Golfer,
weigh in on this one : isn't "slightly laid off" an easier motion?

On this site, I have repeatedly put forth that a slightly laid off swing, for many reasons, is a highly effective alternative (for me). I can't be alone on this, but the response, in general, has been lukewarm. On this point, I think CJ Goecks has a viable perspective.

It matters not. Don's mantra to "keep it vertical" is noted, but that element is not helpful for me. Ya gotta go with what works, yes?

Simply Gol

Belated Happy Birthday.

Yes, the golf gods are indeed a fickle bunch...lol.

Lynn42

Dafried, Jim Wile is right on the money
Just to add to his clear thinking - How do you putt?

I'm incredibly proud of him. He's turned out to be one of the wittiest, smartest, most clever, most fun, handsomest, athletic, nicest, coolest, most sensitive, and all around best guy that I've ever known, and I'm proud to have given birth to him. Everybody he comes into contact with loves him. And he hits a golf ball well over 300 yards (unfortunately, it lands three fairways over, but what the hell). He's gonna be somebody.

Maybe Mr. Wilson has 60 each of the same shirts and pants. Kind of a golf uniform. I love Surge's videos, especially since they're non-scripted. Very homey. Makes me feel like he's talking to ME.

Don, been with your swing for almost 2 years and all I can say is THANK YOU! I am a firefighter for 30 years and have had several injuries which give me long term back and neck issues. Until I found your swing I could not play 2 days in a row or even 27 holes in a day. Now that I have found the Surge swing I am playing more, hitting it better and without any pain caused by the swing.

To Kevin:

As to:. If I attempt to get my leading arm parallel to the toe line any sooner, then I am "crushing the cigarette pack," as Surge would say, and go way into the SBG.

Flare out your right foot more or even warm up with a deep hook stance (pull your right foot way back) until you can reach the toe line. Use more right leg promotion of the turn (as Surge says).

Then use the Derek Hardy tip and you barely dip into the SBG

Yes, I realize the club even in my own videos gets to around 1 o'clock or so.All I know is that the serge swing works well for me.

What is wrong with being a great lawyer?

Vertical does not mean steep. If you look at Don's swing tapes, you see that he has a normal arc that he swings on a plane that is closer to a true right angle to the ground than is a rotational swing. While he does make a partial turn, he does not close the arc like the big rotational swingers do. So, the width of his arc promotes a shallow swing that should not cause too much stress on a shoulder. However, I think the word "vertical" often promotes people to swing very steeply instead of just moving a normal arc to a more vertical plane. At least, that's I how I have come to understand the science of this swing.

Hello Harry,

If you are trying to learn the Surge Swing for free, you will probably not be satisfied with the results. For the price of a lesson with your local pro, you can buy Dons videos and the foundations manual. You will be well on your way to learning the swing. Believe me, it is money well spent.

Hit'em Long and Straight,
Bob

CJ Goecks recommended the book 5 Keys to Distance by Eric Jones and I have found it fascinating. You can do most of what Eric suggests either using the CJ Goecks swing or Don's. I got into Don's swing first and found his go vertical at the toe line (mitt) to be really helpful. CJ Goecks seems similar but layering it over Don's ideas hasn't been possible for me. But Eric's ideas and Don's ideas can be integrated -- difference on knees though. Eric tells you how to balance on the right leg in the turn and I have found lots of distance this way (as opposed to wide knees).

Comment Removed, Duplicate.

Dick:

I know it has been many years since I played in any meanful competion - but "best ball" used to mean that each player played his ball individually, but only the "best score", allowing for handicap, counted. So they should have playing their own shots anyway.

Sounds to me like they wanted to play a "scramble" against your ball.

Keep hitting them STRAIGHT and LONG

Amos

This is where my eyes glaze over. Must have something to do with why I'm so uncoachable. I wish all of you guys would make an audio tape of you all discussing this issue so I could use it to help me get to sleep every night. Can't you discuss something really interesting, like how to avoid getting "hat hair"?

Dick Lee:

Of course ! "Old Age and Treachery ......... " LOL

Amos

Surge

Put me down as living proof that the Surge Swing increases your club head speed. I was unable to play for 18 years due to major injuries. I would say since I was not playing at all, my club head speed was 0 mph. I have been using our beloved swing since the end of September of 2010. Last week I played 6 rounds of 18 holes. Tomorrow I have a 10:07 am tee time to play my 4th round this week. NO PAIN. After my round today I stopped off at a local golf club to visit with the folks there. They asked me to bring in some clubs to show them how the Surge Swing looks. Now that right there is funny. Me being chosen as the poster boy to show the locals out here how the Surge Swing looks. I usually only swing at about 80%. If I get much more than that, I start loosing accuracy. They clocked my driver at just under 90 mph. They could not believe anyone, especially a guy with a broken body like mine, could swing a driver at 90 mph only turning 3/4 and bringing the club to only 1 to 2 o'clock. They all checked my driver to make sure it was not some "magic club." I told them it ain't me or the club that is magic, it is the swing.

So, the moral of the story is that using the Surge Swing, my driver club head speed has gone from 0 to 90 in 6 short but very enjoyable months. That is better acceleration than I got from my Vette.

How many people have to explain to the nay sayers that the Surge Swing has given them back the game we love so much and that we play without pain to get it through those thick heads?

Great topic with the 3 videos in this series. We all knew the Surge Swing works. Now we have a better understanding of how and why it works so well.

The rest of you can play any way you want. We will be here waiting for you when you are able to start playing again after your next surgery or injury. Or, you could just put the doctors and hospital out of business by switching to the Surge Swing now. Your choice. As for me and my back, we will follow the Surge. Sorry Lord, I really needed to borrow that verse to make my point.

Keeping it vertical, and playing a lot of golf with NO PAIN, in Oklahoma,
Dick

Steve

I have often felt that you are better to be guilty with a technicality to fall back on than to really be innocent and just not be able to prove it.

Unfortunately, sometimes it is having the money to bring in the big gun attorneys that helps the guilty walk away. And yes, sometimes an innocent person falls through the cracks.

All things considered, I feel we have the best system going.
Dick

Albert, are you Paul's brother, or just a real good friend?

How about I just rent it out to you on important occasions? ;-)

Tom,

Most of the science I've seen regarding the rotational swing starts from the proposition that the rotational swing is how to swing a golf club (based on the experience of how people have swung a club for 150 years) and then determines how to maximize the effectiveness of it. Only two people I've seen started with the physics and then looked at how to effectively do that with a human body: Ernest Jones and Don Trahan. Both have many similarities, particularly in the avoidance of active hinging, and the idea of a golf swing being similar to a pendulum (or rock on a string) rather than a lever. Of course, in the 100 years since Ernest Jones learned the game of golf, there have been a lot of advances in equipment technology and in understanding the mechanics of the human body.

Hi Steve,

I'm not sure if this will post in the right place, but your reply didn't give a reply option, so I posted it here.

I'm not chewing anyone out, so please forgive me if it came across that way.

It seems to me, that if your arms were locked in front of you, and all you did was turn your shoulders, that this would result in something like the 'square to square' technique which Don described the other day. Is this what you are trying to achieve in the takeaway? If so, then I agree that it would be almost impossible to reach the toeline and lift the club without a great degree of difficulty with just a 70* turn of the shoulders. You would end up rocking your shoulders into a forward tilt and have tons of problems.

By rotating the arms, from the shoulder sockets during the takeaway and into the mitt, you would then be able to lift the arms without having to rock the shoulders.

I hope this doesn't sound too much like Bill ;-)

Hit'em Long and Straight,
Bob

Happy birthday!

RobertF, you may not be impressed with your swing as a Surge Swing but I am
I have referred guys to look at your Utube vids more than once
I'm glad you weren't my teacher when I was a kid - Hard marker or what?

Hello Albert,

Welcome to the Surge Nation! Paul Wilson is a great guy, but as you can tell from most of the responses that you have gotten to your comment, We are extremely proud of and protective of Don Trahan. You see, he transformed many of our lives from frustration, to absolute love of the game.

I have been a citizen of the Surge Nation for well over a year, and still remember when Surge only did essays for his daily lessons. The grammar nazis came out of the woodwork and attacked him almost every day for his various spelling and grammatical errors. They hounded him to produce daily videos instead of essays. No matter, we still loved him in spite of his inability to write like Ken Follett or Tom Clancy, (My two favorite authors;)

Finally, Surge began visiting us from the back porch, and all was well with the world.

My unsolicited advice to you, is to enjoy the free show, buy the videos, learn to swing pain free, and discover a love for the game like you have never known in your life.

Hit'em Long and Straight,
Bob

Good morning all -

I've been reading all the comments concerning Paul Wilson's site and the rotational swing; more videos and less theory; easier on my back etc. Some comments are by newbies and some are by the "regulars." I've got to say that after playing this game for over 50 years and adapting to the Surge Swing and getting fit by a an excellent clubfitter, I simply play better golf, period with less time on the range and more time on the putting green. The regulars, while appearing to be somewhat protective of the Surge Swing (maybe a slight understatement), are that way for a damn good reason: Surge is the real deal! He knows exactly what he's talking about and dellivers it with a passion and sincerity all too uncommon. today. His program really is clear and the theories sound.

For those folks that like Paul Wilson's style & message, I urge you to pursue his system; for those that want more videos and less theory, there's always You Tube; and for the keepers of the Surge Swing - YOU GUYS ROCK!

Bruce

WK, What brass balls you must have. How can you dare to call anybody self centered. Everybody on this blog knows that YOU are the most self centered Narcissistic individual to post on this blog. You my friend should practice what you preach. Too bad a skunk can't smell their own stench, because you my friend are stinking to high heaven. Telling others not to be so self centered, what a laugh indeed, you poor miserable creature.

Heh. I thought about going to law school to be a criminal defense attorney, but when I got Son of Sam off in a mock trial, I decided that wouldn't be a good thing to do in real life. ;-)

Doc

Yes, inquiring minds, at least this one, want to know.

Dick

Hi all
I've been trying to learn Surge's technique for about a year now and seem to be going backwards. Today I scored only 9 Stableford points -- that's not a good day at the office. :-) I have lower disc problems and even after trying to use Surge's swing my back really hurts after a round. Some friends today thought I was doing everything with my arms, and if only your arms are involved then you're never going to hit well. So, I thought maybe I should ask the club pro for some tune-up lessons, but he believes only in the full rotational swing saying distance only comes from body rotation. Question: is it worth booking a couple of lessons anyway and asking him to help with with a shorter swing just so I can get more than my arms involved, or should I carry on muddling my way through the Surge videos I downloaded? All my practise swings feel great, but that rarely seems to translate into a good shot. I live in the UK and getting over to a Surge school is out of the question costwise as it getting down to the one now being offered in the south of England --- my wallet isn't fat enough. :-(

Hi Robert,I have just watched your swing video and am most impressed by your finish position - just like Surge advocates. However, it may be the camera angle, but I perceived your feet to be aligned pointing to the fence and not straight down the range but then again porhaps you were aiming at a green in that direction, it was difficult to see. I wouldn't mind seeing a shot of you aligned parallel to the fence. This is not a criticsm, it is an observation. I am desperately trying to get to grips with the Surge swing but cannot get it right consistently In frustration yesterday I reverted to my old rotational swing and hit a couple of decent length straight drives. However, I soon ended up with the old back pain so I went back to the upright swing before any more damage was done and I started pulling the ball left again!

I am obviously not getting it right but, living in the UK, there is no one here from whom I can get a 'hands on' lesson.I think I am doing what the manual says, but obviously not. Oh for Surge to have an instructor here!

Ian

oz:

People should go visit the video on the golf school - pretty pathetic swings.

Kevin, I was scrolling through some old comments from yesterday and realized that I probably didn't answer your question fully about the RSS Feed page. The link should get you to the page, but, if you're using Fire Fox as your internet browser. The RSS page can be changed to Google Reader and that's where the good benefits comes in at. Let me know if you need directions on how to select Google Reader. Sorry for the confusion yesterday, I must of been having a senior moment.
http://swingsurgeon.disqus.com...