The Big Question: Graphite or Steel Shafts?

My game has gone South after 2 years of PPG SUCCESS. Does anyone know of a PPG instructor in Concinnati area.

RANDY

TM:  Thanks for coming thru with the great reference.  I knew you'd have the answer - you are amazing!!!!!  r2

I saw that and thought the exact same thing. :)

been with PPG for two years now and want to know how far away does Don set up his practice driving net, from the pad?? thanks  Ron

Randy;
The cirtified fitter in the Columbus area, also gives lessons. He is very personable and has built clubs for me.

 http://swingsurgeon.com/Academ...

Ohio

John Dranschak
Swing Surgeon Certified Fitter
Dead Solid Perfect Golf Clubs, LLC.
284 Woodchuck Drive
Sunbury, OH 43074
513-505-5241

www.deadsolidperfectgolfclubs....
john@deadsolidperfectgolfclubs.com

Why do people get locked in on distances if they are not hit fairways ?
Should be about hitting fairways and greens.

It is very possible with a couple of cheap items to occasionally check your own loft and lie. For the lie, you want dynamic lie, Just put some tape on the bottom/sole of the iron and stand and swing on a piece of plywood. The tape should scuff in the middle area. For checking your relative loft. I say relative because it is not precise, but good enough for the average week end player, get yourself one of these.

http://www.golfworks.com/produ...

Red:  Seems like someone asked that question a while back, and the answer was, the front of the net is about 10 feet from the the front edge of the mat.  r2

Hi Surge

Great video regarding swing speed and the use of graphite for the older golfer. I have been using graphite shafts for around 15 years (now 68) And have found that my swing speed has reduced quite substantially. I recently acquired some G20 irons and decided to receive professional advice to see what heads and shafts suited my swing etc. and was informed by the Professional who used computerised equipment my main problem was that I was standing too close to the ball and thus not giving myself sufficient space to swing smoothly and with pace. Since acquiring my new irons my swing speed has increased quite considably and I am hitting the ball further and straighter. Interestingly he suggested that my swing was not compatible for using long irons up to 5 and that I would be better suited by using a 7 wood. This has had a profound influence on my play.

New, I may try a smaller head driver some day. Congratulations on your good distance in your 70's. hope i'm there too at that age. As for your results and better legnth, it could be several factors. yes, as you have been playing now for a couple of years and learning the PPGS you are likely improving. Too you not only are swinging a different club head but another shaft, Likely a different swingweight. Perhaps the loft is different too. In addition the shaft likely is more suited to your swing. It may have a better bend/kick point for your tempo and swing speed. Likely the shaft is not as stiff over all too.
So yes there are plenty of possibilities for why.
What ever the reason(s) are just enjoy the good results. Happy golfing!
BTW, your name is??

Doc;

We have not had a house call in a while, I hope all is well at your end. I was wondering if you would kindly comment on a few of the questions raised by Don in this video, with one of your House Calls. Namely, the differences between the making of steel vs graphite shafts. Are the flexes closer to the marked flex in steel due to closer tolerance maintenance etc.. And, is steel truly more consistent as to shot accuracy over graphite. I have no intention of switching back to steel because of arthritic hand problems, but I am very curious as an amateur club Assembler. I know there is a vast difference between a fitter and an assembler, but I like to tinker, it is in my nature. In addition, what about the steels like Sensicore and the half steel/half graphite recent newcomer. I am also curious as to, other than getting the ball up, what determines a players need for, low, med, or high flex/bend point graphite, in their swing.

EDIT:
Please read the edited blog version, not the error clad email version.

Thanks

I'd guess even Doc started as an "assembler" at some point. Those are some good questions Terry. I am going to 'tinker' with the steel verses graphite question with the project X that I recently mentioned (and have yet to purchase), and the set of sensicore I already got but have not used. I could simply put them in my old irons but would rather practice fitting and 'assembling' with a new set which seems more appropriate to my tempo and swing speed (the 5.0's). I'll use my Maltby KE irons heads.while I have everything apart I will spine and FLO them. After I will then compare the over all feel and performance to my graphite iron set I currently use.
I will also look forward to Doc's consideration of your questions. Hopefully he won't make us wait for a video blog on it but just answer in detail here.

To graphite or not in our irons? I went with graphite when I had my PPGS fitting last year in San Fran. Matrix Studio 64 and 84 Gram. 84gr in the pw-7 and 64gr in the 6-4 irons. I have found them to be as consistent as the true temp irons I played in mt last set so I think it depends on the quality and inherant consistency of the graphite shafts. I do understand that steel may be easier to control the consistency. It is true though that they make super light steel shafts now and you vcan have dampeners such as the sensi-core offered by both golfworks and golfsmith. Additionally, there is alot of help with arthritus and other 'itus' hand and elbow issues with various grip choices such as Chamios, jumbo tour wrap by golfpride and the Jumbo Max for example.
I do plan on trying the Rifle Project X HL 5.0 with the set of sensi-core's that I bought. I will then give you all a first hand report on steel verses graphite after 50 years old :)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rifle-...

http://www.golfsmith.com/produ...

Getting set up to build my own clubs is allowing me to become made golf scientist of sorts. Only time and money limit the possibilities. I still don't have the flight radar. It may be a long time or never for that but I will get a swing speed and tempo tool soon.
Maybe something like this;

http://www.intheholegolf.com/M...

Meanwhile one way to find out what your best over all fit is can be had by stoping by a golf store that carries and sells Mizuno clubs. They have a swing analyzer that attaches to the clubshaft and then is plugged into a computer that gives you several good shaft options. It's not as good as going to a PPGS fitter but can give a fairly accurate snapshot of what may be best for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Locally for me they do this at golf gallaxy

Thanks for the info Robert and T Med. With the 460cc heads I get roughly 30-40 more yards carry than with the smaller heads. FH is about the same with either head.

 Redsclimbr

Here is a video from Surge on his net. He does not deal with the distance from his mat, but I think the 10' mentioned by Roy sounds reasonable. You may have to experiment with your own ball height to arrive at your particular beneficial distance. I hit a rather high trjectory ball, so 7' suits me better.

http://swingsurgeon.com/DailyV...

I switched my TM R7 irons, 5-pw, from steel to tuned graphites, D5, Earned faster swing speed (5I=85) yet with inablity to get a steady "draw". My shaft guy, has all the tools and recommended I increase lie by 5 degrees...now I draw my 5-9 consistantly and have been able to "depend" on it. My "new" drives, TMR-9 has been tuned for my swing, is 11.5 degrees, upright/left...hits straight to slight draw, no slices. I'm 69 years old, and have a 15 handicap.

You sure you have the proper shaft in your small headed driver, I have a old callaway Great Big Burtha 9* driver with a firm flex callaway shaft that I hit as far as the 460cc head I have. Would not think there would be that much difference in distance.

Thanks Doc. Sweeper or Digger...more likely just a lousy hacker. Actually, the 460cc is 11.5* and the 350cc is 13* loft. I guess one of life's mysteries in gaining more distance. Will chalk it up to maybe I'm learning the swing much better and hitting it more solid. Thanks again for the info.

An interview with Stuart Appleby on the practice range saw him with a band around his knees. He said it was to force him to put outward pressure on his knees, like riding a horse. He said it stabilized his lower body which was a key to solid shots. Sounds like a surgeism, right? Pretty cool!

I very much doubt that's entirely the size of the head, and is more likely related to other elements like loft and shaft differences. Also, the other question is how consistently you hit the two where you want them to go. Distance of a perfect strike should never be the sole determinant in choosing your clubs.

R2,
That sounds about right. I had the same net and would stand about 10 from it. really couldn't hit lofted wedges as i didn't want my neighbors to wonder why golf balls were falling from the sky like hailstones!
Actually the brutal winds we had (along with the super dry hot air gradually rendered the net usless and I had to take it down. only $80.00 so no great lose but I do plan on buying a sturdier one in the future.

I to am over 70 and have had problems with consistency once I switched to graphite shafts.  I recently bought a book on club fitting which contained an interesting discussion on shaft length and swing weights.  The long and short of it was that in order to maintain swing weight with graphite shafts manufacturers had to lengthen the shaft.  I am experimenting with my graphite woods and hybrids at this time by cutting the butt down to give me the same overall club length as with my steel shafted clubs.  I had to add lead tape to the clubhead area to get back to the swng weight it was before. Most significant improvement has been the increased consistency in hitting the sweet spot.  Also, I can now manuver the ball with less effort.  I have not lost any distance, in fact, I think I have gained some as it seems easier to make my swing.  I am now going to work on my irons to see what would happen with them.
Brett Enid OK

The smaller driver was fitted to me about 3-4 years ago. The 460cc is an off the shelf driver.

Thanks for the instruction on Muscle mass loss after 40. I realize I am not hitting as long, weigh the same however, probably more fat and less muscles. So, although I was playing much better with steel, I have to stick to graphite. About 3 years ago, I played Ping G2's steel really well. As I have the Changinite disease, I discarded them and regret it but it is too late.
Gaetan Roy Fort Lauderdale

The 460 is more likely 15 to 16 slightly above center where the ball is hit.

Sounds like you did really well in adding weight until you started hitting the sweet spot. Very cool indeed. Lead tape is one of several ways to add weight and one Surge has used for years. He calls it magic dust I have had success using lead tape too. What ever works. Good, creative work Brett.
PMG

Surgites

I have been off line for a while. The camera angle seems to have changed. I see mostly trees and Surge in the lower right quadrant. Does anyone else see what I am seeing? Or is there something wrong with my computer?  Any help would be appreciated.

Doc,
As far as frequencies and consistences in flex  and profiles, which graphite brands/companies have you found to be among the best??

 Baschriever;

Don has covered the use of lead tape before in the daily's, Here is one of his older ones, from Apr 2009, in which he calls lead tape Magic Dust. I just thought you might enjoy it, since you have been experimenting with it. I have an R9 driver with weight ports that I've also been experimenter with.

http://www.swingsurgeon.com/Ho...

Steve, with your knowledge and experience I have no reason to doubt you but something is happening since I switched from my fitted 350cc (ss of 85mph if I remember correctly) head to an off the shelf 4600cc. For 2011 my avg for 29 rounds was 169.45 yds and FH avg was 7.76. In 2012 using the 460cc driver my avg so far for 8 rounds is 194.26 and FH 6.88. Could it be that somehow I am just getting better with the swing and hitting it more solidly? In 2011 I would rarely get a drive in the 200 yd range and the longest was 218. Now I hit 200+ quite often with the longest being once at 234 yds. Maybe I should mention besides being new to golf that I am in my early 70's and usually shoot in the 109-115 range. I just picked up the game for fun and a little exercise. I wish I had a logical explanation for my increased distances. All I can point to is the increased head size.

Tried it one more time from the top and it seems to be working ok.

 What part of the country are you in? Here in north central Ohio, there wasn't a day last season that the fairways weren't soft from rain. There was virtually no bounce and roll. This year with the drought, the balls are rolling forever. You'd need to hit the 350 and 460 clubs under the same conditions to compare distances.

FOR DOC...How often would you advise someone to get his loft/lies, etc. checked?? If a person was fitted 3 years ago, and assuming his SS has decreased, would it be a good idea to go through another complete fitting to see if adjustments need to be made or even possibly changing out the shafts to graphite??  Also, I know you are a proponent of "bigger is not always better" for clubheads but do you build 460cc drivers?? If so, if someone has a "fitted" smaller driver head and wanted to go to 460cc could he just have the fitter pull off the smaller head and replce with the 460cc or would this change all of the original measurements from the original fitting?
Thanks and keep up the good work.

Great questions bend profile needs are angle of attack and club head speed release
You can buy graphite as good as steel process has improved greatly since inception
To get as low a torque, it gets expensive
Sensicore has a small section of plastic tube like a straw wrapped in a thin piece of foam this lessens vibration would love to see the numbers on that steel and graphite mix has been around now for 8 years or so graphite top with steel tip not a bad idea the other way around as adams had no reason for

RM:  I tried my net at 10' and had the same problem you had.  It was good for up to my 7-iron, but for the more lofted ones, I had to move closer, about 7,' as T Medley noted.  I don't even try to hit my wedges into it.   I'm able to keep mine in the garage so it has lasted well for the past two years.  Should get another 3 or 4 years use before getting another one. r2 

Hopefully Doc, or others with more knowledge will come along and add to what I say. In terms of lies and lofts, they should be checked about once a year, depending on how often and how roughly you use your clubs. If any consistent mishit comes up for one particular club, you should definitely have that one checked. I wouldn't think a complete new fitting would be required after only three years unless some major physical event happened, though checking to see if your swing speed has decreased significantly wouldn't hurt you. The other dynamic elements of your swing are not likely to have changed.
As for a 460cc driver, my question is why you would want to put a head on your club that makes it harder for you to square the club face consistently?

Depends if clubs are forged or cast, or if player is sweeper or digger, or he plays often or sparingly

Ss does not necessarily decrease in a span of 3 years if in doubt, check it out

I have not built a 460 except for dj because he has to play one in years absolutely no point in it bigger does not equate to further even though u picked up some yards with a new driver that is larger

Chances are the new driver has a loft that is higher than the small one even though they may say the same could also be a difference in materials there are several things that could come into play but a 460 will not go further than say a 360 just because it is 100cc bigger

Yes the shaft can be pulled and put into a larger head