Picture Worth A Million Words

I don't have a question to read today. Instead, I've got a statement from Don Keyser about a picture he saw on the website that managed to put the whole swing into the proper perspective for him. What picture you ask?

Don,
After 4 to 5 years this one picture made the whole swing work for me!

This picture can be found on the homepage, as it's one of the first things new visitors to the site will see. It's me demonstrating the unique vertical takeaway of the Peak Performance Golf Swing.

I'm glad that this picture helped Don K. because a lot of times all it takes to finally grasp a concept is being able to visualize it. Many times pictures and videos can help us see what we're supposed to be doing and it puts the swing all together. Whether it's a picture in your mind or a real picture like this, anytime you can see what's supposed to happen, it will make the swing come easier.

If you've got any of the videos we sell in Surge's Shop, you're used to seeing me demonstrate the vertical swing. After watching the videos or reading the fully-illustrated manual, try going outside and taking some pictures or videos of your own swing. The reason for this is because you may think you're swinging the correct way, but the images you take may tell a different story.

I'm glad that this picture helped Don and hopefully it flips the switch in your head as well. But, in order to really see how your swing stacks up to The Surge, you need to see it for yourself.

Let's develop better pictures to get those good feelings and you might amaze yourself with how consistent and straight you start hitting the ball.

Keep it vertical!

The Surge

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Blog Tags:

Golf Instruction

Vertical Swing

Backswing

Comments

Backswing

In the picture above it shows you with the club at 12 o'clock, but when I watch you in many videos your backswing at the top is laid-off to at least 1 o'clock or even to 2 o'clock. Yesterday, in your video, you even tallked about having your forearms and club laid-off into the SBG. This is really confusing for me as it seems to me that the picture above is what you teach, but it is not what you do. Can you please clear-up these confusing differences between what you teach and what you do. Thanks, Don Anderson

To Don Anderson, On Being laid off

Let us first start by allowing Surge to have parameters and not Have To Be Perfect with every swing he makes. The parameters of the PPGS allows for 11 O'clock (anywhere between 11 and 12) to be an acceptable parameter at the top of the BUS. When the bump occurs at this top of the BUS, the secondary spine tilt and additional laying off which occurs can easily put the club from 11, into the 10 O'clock area. Some refer to this as dropping the club into the slot for the inside approach. What you have described as confusing is perfectly acceptable within the parameters of the PPGS, as none of us are perfect every time, not even Surge. I hope this is somewhat helpful in clarifying the confusion rather than adding to it.

GREAT ANSWER

I think we sometimes think we should do things exactly as stated or shown but that is impossible. My hands are generally anywere from the balls of my feet to my arches with the club at 11:00 from down the line. We just need to find what works for us.

hands and heels

in a previous video about the SBG it was stated that although the upper forward arm remains on the toe line, the hands and clubhead should be on the 'heel line'. now maybe its an optical illusion but in that picture it actually appears that Dons hands are outside his toeline. i;m assuming the photo was at the top of the backswing.
cheers richard in the uk

Confusion on backswing of PPGS, SBG

Agree with Don Anderson's comment-please clarify backswing & SBG.
Seems that to generate any driving power you need to get the shoulder and left elbow back to the heel line. Ie; I need slight rotation and an inch of head movement back to go forward with speed. PPGS works well in my short game but needs slight adjustment for long game. Tom H. Minneapolis, MN

DO YOU REALLY SEARCH and have an OPEN MIND ?

To COWBOY
barrowcloughr
david.williams
donalda
Tom H.
and anyone confused.................................................

First, I have some questions for you that may lead to your truely seeing, feeling and understanding this swing.

1) Do you have the basic lesson videos and the manual?

2) How often do you use the SEARCH box which can lead you to an absolute gold mind of dozens and dozens of carefully thought out FREE answers to every and ALL QUESTIONS current and past?? If you are new and don't know what I'm referring to, this box is located on the far right top of this page just below the log out log in word(s) {above the word Support} and is a rectangular space with a little magnifying glass. For example, if you put in the word 'vertical' you will see page after page of articles and videos that Surge has done on every possible question you now have or likely will have on the matter.

You see, we have constantly new people coming to this site and so the same questions keep coming up again and again as golfers make an honest effort to understand. We are thrilled at your interest and happy to help answer your questions. All of us were new at some point and had similar questions.
If you can think of the question related to this golf swing, 99.9% of the time it has been answered multiple times.

ONE OF THE OTHER PROBLEMS IS some of you are mostly visual and can't HEAR what Don says as he explains. Others are primarily auditory and can't easily SEE what he demonstrates in his lessons. So extra effort is needed if you really want to learn.
AGAIN, enter in the key word of any topic and the sit back and be amazed at the vast library of answers that are available to read and research. It is my humble opinion that this is the most under utilized resource available to us.
Are you all using it when you have a question? It should be the FIRST place you go when you need extra help. I dare you to start using it!

3) DO YOU HAVE AN OPEN MIND and heart?
I say heart because invariably about every three to six months we get at least one contrarian (not you all so don't take this the wrong way) we get someone one who will constantly comment and question without ever listening to the answers given and he or she really doesn't want to change/learn any how. They just visit this site for sport. Are you willing to put in the time and effort needed? Anything great takes effort to realize, wouldn't you agree?

Often, several of us will give very studied, clear answers with attached videos and comments and references we have carefully searched for to back up what we are saying in hopes of honestly helping others understand.

A good place to start is to simply watch todays video again and "Engage your mind" eyes and ears to what Surge is conveying. Then if you really want to understand and see with your mind, make the real effort that it takes.
USE THE SEARCH box.

Please continue to also so ask your questions as we almost always have an experienced Surgite willing to assist you if you are ready to be the student.

sbg

cheers for that extended reply robert. ive been on this site for about 3 years now. ive got the manual and a few of the videos. i know about the search box too. i suppose youre now thinking that makes my question even worse lol. but you didnt actually answer my question a bout the photo where dons hands appear to be outside his toeline, maybe it is just an optical illusion. the recent video ' sbg defined' was a revelation to me. i think when Don states you swing to the toeline , then its all lift confuses people , it certainly has me. i took that to mean u lift straight up from the toeline resulting in the wrong position Don illustrates in the video. my swing was a sort of 2 piece movement , to the toe line, then straight up from the toeline, whereas its all one movement.maybe i;m easily confused or maybe Don should somehow re-phrase his description. cheers again

barrow....

I realize that you and perhaps others were(are) not amongst the new visitors to this blog and swing. I still feel that most "don't get it" new or long timers because they don't put in the research and dig for gold as I detailed above. Have you noticed that I rarely if ever ask a question about the lessons? It's not because I am a know it all or because I have perfected the Surge swing. It is because I love to, absolutely have a deep passion for researching. Yes I'll spend hours looking stuff up and as Terry suggests, Reviewing the manual and paid for videos.
As to your question, which you could find an answer for on your own through CAREFUL research and effort (which by far the most effective and long lasting way to understand ANY subject- along with experience applying and video taping your efforts) ..... the picture is taken from an angle which does make Don's hands appear out in front of his toe line. Even if they are, this is still ideal and a great visual for us to shoot for. With correct bump and move with the lower body first it is actually the best place to be at the top in order to come back to the ball slightly from the inside as all pros do.
My comment above was meant to reach and motivate others to do the work needed with heart, head and body if you really want it.
So again, if it motivated anyone to learn how to learn great. If not, just carry on as usual and and you'll continue to have what you have.

SBG DEFINED

A plane is defined in the PPGS as swinging on a maximum, vertical, incline plane for one's posture. Posture is determined by the various lengths of the body parts (arms, legs, etc.) ( When we start the swing into the catcher's mitt (slightly inside the aiming line) and we turn to the toe line, the part of the body that we are checking to see if we turned 70 degrees to the toe line is only the upper arm from the elbow to the shoulder. )This is because once I'm turning on an incline plane and I get my forward arm to the toe line, there's no more turn. From that point, it's all lift, but I'm lifting on an incline plane. So, the club and my hands are still going a little bit around my body because I'm going up.

(If I kept my left arm over the toe line, I wouldn't be able to hit a ball very good from there because my arms would be too far out in front of my body.)

It's because of the incline plane that the hand, the shaft, and clubhead are all the way to my heel line. So, let's simplify this...

We turn only to the toe line in the backswing. But, the only part of the arm that truly determines this is the elbow to the shoulder.

This is not in the manuel or videos but people need to search for things and review them. This was done acouple of days ago.

not straight up

cheers mike. this is where i have been going wrong. i have misunderstood Don when he says once the toe line is reached its straight up. i have been literally going straight up. arm , shaft , hands clubhead . everything. its probably my fault but i still think the way Don explains it can be miscontrued. now i think i understand i hope to see things improve especially distance .

richard in the uk

lazy me

thanks again Robert. you have me sussed, i am indeed a tad lazy and maybe a tad arrogant. i think i know what i am doing when perhaps i don;t i;ll strive to do better.

You'll be fine

And keep in mind, my observations were meant to help. It applies to all including myself. We just do the best we can right.

Re: SBG

Barrow,

What Surge talks about is the hands moving like they are on a ferris wheel - as vertically as possible - while turning to the toe line. While doing that, the forearms should rotate slightly to keep the palms perpendicular to the ground. In doing that, it may appear that there is a two-piece movement, but it isn't. If you concentrate on maintaining firm wrists and getting the hands to the correct position at the top of the BUS, you will have a one-piece movement of the hands, which will get the club in the proper vertical position without conscious thought.

It took me quite a while to learn this, but once I did, it became almost second nature. The position of the hands (do the cactus drill) and the position of the knees are the 2 most critical aspects in the swing, tied to the 3 critical points of set-up, top of the BUS, and T-finish. If you consider that the butt of the shaft in your hands is on the toe line (rim of ferris wheel), when you start your limited turn, your arms, hands and the club should lift automatically due to your spine angle. When your upper forward arm gets to the toe line, just continue lifting your arms up to 3/4 swing. It's all one piece; just go from setup to the top of the BUS with turn and lift.

Hope this helps.
Kevin McG

sbg

thanks kevin . it was indeed most helpful.

sbg

barrowclough,
Perhaps you are being confused. Asking Don to somehow re-phrase his description? Are you for real? You are not a primary school pupil [hopefully hahaha]. The onus is on us to interpret things in life ourselves. Don is Don and has a homespun way about him in all things. It takes a little to get used to, but your over analysis of everything he does or says is self defeating. Chill out sunshine and smell the roses, cactus or whatever. I have a vision of people like you at say, The sermon on the mount, excuse me Jesus, could you just re-phrase that for me, so that I understand it more?
We all have problems, but as Robert Meade said, have you an open mind? You may have, but your responses lead me to think otherwise. I wish you every success with the PPGS swing. Before you watch in future, grab a coffee or a cold beer, take a couple of deep relaxing breaths and then watch. You might surprise yourself. DH

Wow

DH, while that made me chuckle a bit, i though that may have been a bit rough:) We don't want to scare others from commenting or aking any questions. Point well taken though and hope things are well down under. Mid-summer there isn't it? Your golf sason must be in full swing.
Keep em' in the short grass.

wow

all i can to say to that is lol. but i know you mean well. i;m an atheist btw.

Do you really search and have an open mind?

Amen to that brother. Robert, I couldn't have put it better myself. Impatience is the today's golfers pandemic! "I WANT IT NOW!" the modern mantra in all things!
Since I concentrated a bit more on being patient, I see more and hear more. My 'Let's get the so and so!' attitude, is still there, but under control more. Next week, the weather is meant to be more co-operative here and we will be looking forward to further improvements on the hallowed turf.
Surge and the stalwart Surgites have given me help I could never have dreamed of, in my quest for consistency. It is still a work in progress, but the improvements are becoming consistent more and more.
It is now much easier to diagnose what was not done correctly when the [now] occasional shot goes awry.
Those who carp and moan at Don's explanations, and nit-pick all the time, leave me pitying them, rather than scorning them! If they put a smidgeon more effort into doing as you suggested, they would 'see the light' much earlier.
I for one will remain an ardent student of Surge and the PPGS swing. For me like many others, it is the most body friendly swing on the planet. It is a joy to finish a round and have no aches and pains afterwards. I will never be able to challenge McIlroy or McDowell, but will be more competitive than I have been for years.
Thankyou for all your sterling help and advice to me and others of the Surge Clan.
Hit them longer and straighter more consistently. Respectfully yours, DH

i think its you who need s to calm down

since when has asking a perfectly reasonable question become carping and criticism. i really don;t need to be lectured by you thank you very much , thanks to the people who answered me without feeling the need to be patronising a nd condescending , much appreciated, as to the others . well ........

I thing it's you who needs to calm down

Tut!tut! smack the back of my hand. By the language you have used in your response to my comments, you didn't have any problem understanding what I said.
It would seem that you are averse to criticism. That is a pity, as it is usually a way to make us stop and think. That was my intention, so mission accomplished. Your response was expected.
As for me calming down? Hahaha! Cool as a cucumber. You are of course entitled to your opinion. That is what free speech is about.
I wished you well in your quest to improve. Guess you missed that too.
Now I am off to have a swing. Hit them long and straight where ever you are. DH

smugness

lol you sure are one smug chappie arent you please stop making assumptions about me , you know nothing about me.as to me being averse to criticism, if you read my posts i actually criticise myself rather a lot. enjoy your swing and bye.

CONFUSION OR ILLUSION

I echo the comments of Robert Meade. The confusion is indeed in the eye of the beholder. The truth is out there and only needs to be SEARCHED FOR or PURCHASED through the many available videos and Manual. We have all been, where you are at, BUT, we decided to invest in the program. It's the only way to properly learn the PPGS system.
Without the proper learning materials, you will forever remain confused. The search block does indeed help, but it is so very convenient to have and study the entire system from beginning to end with your own materials, instead of by bits and pieces, with questions and searches. The choice is yours!!!! There may even be another sale reduction before Christmas.
https://swingsurgeon.com/shop/products/starter-set

Earlier post

In reference to my earlier post; I am a little dyslexic and sometimes reverse thoughts. Inferring to Mr. Trahan’s backswing being laid-off at of 1 and 2 o’clock – what it should be from 12 o’clock is 11 and 10 o’clock.

CONFUSED

I am not trying to start anything but.

Don stated in the daily Sacred Burial Ground Defined .
QUOTE
"If I kept my left arm over the toe line, I wouldn't be able to hit a ball very good from there because my arms would be too far out in front of my body. It's because of the incline plane that the hand, the shaft, and clubhead are all the way to my heel line. So, let's simplify this...

We turn only to the toe line in the backswing. But, the only part of the arm that truly determines this is the elbow to the shoulder. If those start getting inside your toe line, that's the sacred burial ground. This was super observation on Don's part so it's good to define what I mean and explain it in more detail. This also helps me make sure my defintions are correct because I know you guys are checking my swing closely! The part of the arm we're checking is only the elbow to the shoulder of the lead arm."

This is not the same as the picture above. I think this is were the confused is coming from.

I agree with you guys that people need to buy the material and use the search box like we do to fully understand the swing.

This maybe a simple case of do as I say not as I do. That photo may be off a little also.

SBG

Mike, Spot on, the pic is misleading. Surge explanation a couple of days ago made all the difference arm to shoulder over toe line, club in line with heal.

Optional, not optimal

One other point I think needs clarification for people who are confused here. Surge said that the hands would be inside the toe line, and the club head COULD be as far back as the heel line, not that the hands and club head would necessarily get that far back. Our goal is to be as vertical as possible with the palms perpendicular to the ground and the elbow of the lead arm on the toe line.

10 o'clock is WAY too flat. That's 30 degrees above horizontal, meaning 60 degrees from vertical. That's almost Ricky Fowler territory. Just focus in the BUS that you're trying to swing your left arm around the base of your neck and keep your palms perpendicular to the ground.

As for making adjustments with longer clubs, especially the driver, I would be willing to bet that the fault lies with the clubs being too long to properly swing vertically. I cannot stress strongly enough or often enough that you need to get your drivers checked for proper length. Most off-the-shelf drivers you will find in stores are WAY too long. Don't blame the swing for a fault of your equipment that you're unwilling to check. (That's a generic "you," not a specific, so nobody take offense.)

to Terry Medley

Thanks Terrry, that helps a lot. I will be 69 soon and on courses with tee boxes less than 3000 yards for 9 holes I useually shoot under 40 using the PPGS - I can only hit my driver about 200 yards now. I even had one par round this past summer. I have been working on this for 3 years and have 9 of the videos but have always been a little confused about laying off the club. I live in ND so I have to learn everything from the videos and the daily videos. I have no problem with the club being at 12 o'clock with wedges - maybe up to my 7-iron, but with anything longer I find that I do better with the clubs laid off to about 11 o'clock. Now I just won't worry about laying off with my longer clubs and feeling that I am doing it wrong.

Laid off

I wouldn't worry too much about it, unless you're having problems and looking for reasons or answers. Truth be told, we are all probably well outside the perfect PPGS swings. As the saying goes, perfection is unobtainable. However, we continue to strive towards it, ever moving closer and closer to the mark. There are very few of us who are ever happy with our games or swings, that's what moves us continually forward, the knowing WE CAN DO BETTER, in golf and in life.

Good Grief!!

Wow. Some of you act like you don't even want to understand the swing.
It is very easy to slow down any number of videos and, if you like, get the V1 program and you can draw lines on the videos and see for yourselves every position of the club and the body throughout the swing.

You can use the site with all of the still photographs and find a picture that will answer almost any question imaginable about positions.

After studying what is going on with positioning throughout the swing the only questions left should be on certain aspects of feel or how to achieve techniques, most of which you will have to work out for yourselves.

All this "heel line" and "laid off" talk makes me scratch my head in disbelief. Don is NEVER, EVER, NOT EVEN IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD of being "laid off", and his hands NEVER EVEN COME CLOSE to his heel line...PERIOD!!!!!

I go deeper than Don and even my hands never get to my heel line. About the middle of my ankle would be deeper than usual and as deep as I would EVER get.

GOOD GRIEF

I agree. But Don is the one that through out the heal line term. Mine may get to my arches.

Heel line

He said that because the original question stated that in his videos he went to the heel line. Is club head does in fact get that deep before coming back at the top. His hands do not.

Not sure what the "laid off" and references to the clock face on this page are but seems to be not understanding that "vertical" is from down the line and not face on. As I said Don is never laid off (from down the line). You can't get more vertical from down the line than Don is.

The thing is that any question possible can be answered by looking at the pictures and videos.

Another problem I see on this page is not understanding how the camera angle makes the back swing appear, so here it is:
If the camera is on the toe line it will give a fairly accurate view of the depth of swing. The farther out toward the ball/target line the camera is the DEEPER the arms, and club will appear to be. Most videos we see have the camera in the neighborhood of the ball/target line, so the swing is NOT as deep as it appears. I can put a camera on the toe line and another camera on the ball/target line and make a swing and the one on the target line will look much deeper than the more accurate camera on the toe line shows.

Anybody studying a swing MUST be aware of that, and take it into account.

Therefore: Camera angle is absolutely NOT an explaination for the picture in question not going to the heel line (or anywhere near it). Fact is in that picture he is, in fact, not getting anywhere close to the heel line, and probably isn't even to the toe line in that pic.

We can stay that far out with an iron with decent results but gets less likely with a driver. When we are that far out it is almost inevitable we are going to come across the ball sooner after impact, which isn't much of a problem with shorter clubs for good players but becomes more and more of a problem as the clubs get longer.

Another set of eyes

I was thinking, that the one thing I could use is another set of eyes. Any surgitites in the Charlotte area like to meet at the driving range?
Let me know.

Another set of eyes

Leednc: I have the same problem as you - no other surgites or PPGS instructors to watch over me here in Utah. Next best option is to get yourself a video camera and tripod. I got one a couple of years ago and use it on a regular basis to see what my swing is doing. Very easy way to find out what is really happening with your swing. And very easy to compare your swing to the Surge's, per Steve's comments. I check both my set-up (GBSAPS)and swing on a regular basis. It's fast, simple, and really lets you know when things are out of PPGS parameters. Hope this helps a little. R2

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Picture Worth A Million Words

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