After answering many of your questions here on the daily video blog, I'll often receive follow up responses. Many Surgites say thank you for taking the time to discuss the particular issues they wrote in about while others like to hit me with other questions. Today, I'd like to share a follow up question that was sent in by Daniel Larson. It has to do with the way my son, 2-time PGA TOUR Champion DJ Trahan, sets up to the ball.
I have seen an old tape of DJ and noticed that his hands are not forward at address with the driver as has been the norm of other instruction videos. That is, his hands are behind the ball and not straight down the left arm and when nudged forward at address. Something new to try????
Well Daniel, not really. As you all know, DJ is a high level athlete and sometimes they can do things better than most of us because they have superior talents that they've also honed through diligent practice. They can often get away with things that amateurs cannot.
I've always stated that when you hold a club in your hand and you stand up straight, you'll notice that both hands rotate inward naturally. One thing I always try to check in my setup because of this is that the "V" of my right hand is over top of the ball line. DJ is a little different. His right hand is behind the ball, but his left hand is not. He does not have a shaft "back" position. He has a slight shaft "forward" position but he's still able to hit good shots consistently.
Now, one of the things that I've been working on with him is that he sometimes walks in to the ball shut. So, if you tend to aim to the right a lot, moving your hands back behind the ball might make you feel like you can swing down the line a little bit easier. That's an unconscious compensation that a lot of golfers might end up making without ever realizing it. DJ and I are working very hard on this particular part of his setup. I'll do another daily soon to update the status of what we're working on. Sometimes you have to take small steps to get in the correct position.
I strongly urge you to watch the video today because it's a very visual type of lesson. It's a lot easier for me to show you the arm and shaft positions that I'm referring to rather than explaining them on paper. Besides the fact that it's important for you to know where your arms and hands shoud be, today's video should also remind you that even the best players in the world can struggle with the game from time to time. Keep that in mind the next time you're having some trouble.
Keep it vertical!
The Surge
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Comments
Understanding
Hi this is Malcom Rawle Your roving Director of Golf in Europe
Reading the Blog a few days ago, I saw some people were getting a little hot under the collar in regards to being confused and misunderstanding the Daily Videos
1. OK remember Don does not have the same time, as he would in giving a lesson in person
2. Certain questions sent in, without an accompanying video,
Can be answered easily, as per Over the Top, others that are personnel to some people are not easy to define so Don has to give an overall answer covering a lot of aspects. So listen carefully and when he is going from BUS to FUS, remember he knows where to go, so sometimes when he is talking he moves backward and forward but he is showing a position NOT THE FULL SWING, hope this helps
3. The picture in question is to show the finish of the swing but we have to include momentum as in a swing from start to finish, then Don would be at the top between 12 and 1, This I showed in a video on the site
4. Correct the camera, also shown by me, looks different at the toe and aiming line, giving the impression of into the SBG, when it is not
I am going to Spain for a Winter Break over Christmas and the New Year, by the way compliments of the season to all, I will make some videos to put on the website and will include Full Swing in Slow motion with all the points you have been raising especially MOMENTUM – SUB CONCIOUS MIND relating to Golf, these will also be put on the European Site www.swingsurgeoneurope.com
I am also having 3 day schools in Spain in Feb & March 2013 for beginners of the PPGS swing and Intermediate/Advanced, and if enough response from Asia some Schools in Singapore January
Anyone interested please contact me
To all who I have seen please let me know how you are progressing and if I can help at all
Regards
Malcom
Thank you, Malcom! Yeah, some
Thank you, Malcom! Yeah, some folks get a little sharp in their comments, then others take offense and get more sharp. Message boards are terrible for transmitting nuance and we're all pretty good at taking offense where there should be none. Also, some of us regulars can get a bit snippy and/or protective. It's good to be reminded to slow down, give people the benefit of the doubt, and try to treat everyone as we'd like to be treated ourselves.
I know I'm really looking forward to seeing more videos from you, Malcom. I love the global perspective. Have a joyous holiday time in Spain.
Head Start
It has always been a dilemma how to achieve the “head start” we need to make the back swing as easily with longer clubs as we do with the short clubs.
The short clubs already have the head start built in at set up because the ball is further back in the stance.
There are three primary ways we consciously or subconsciously try to get the head start. We use those techniques by themselves or in combinations.
The first is to set the club several inches behind the ball at address or have the starting point of the back swing several inches behind the ball when it starts.
The second is to place the hands more forward of the ball than is recommended at address and start the back swing with shoulder turn for the first few inches (which in effect does the same thing but with more continuity of motion and mental contact with the actual ball position.
The third is to have a slight forward press just before the beginning of the takeaway, which actually puts us in the same position as the number two technique.
I have noticed the dilemma all year and have (fairly unsuccessfully) tried combinations of the three, but it is number one on my list to get straightened out before next golf season.
Surge is very active before the shot and his actual position right before takeaway is the club further behind the ball than I use (sort of like Moe Norman).
DJ is not as active before the shot (sort of like me) and he doesn’t use any of the three techniques, which puts his right hand behind the ball. Fortunately he is plenty good enough to pull off the shot without the head start but, as Surge mentioned, it can cause some problems even for a player of that caliber.
My best guess right now is that I will settle on having the club further behind the ball at address because it fits my demeanor, but the most important thing is to settle on something and do the same thing every time. I have been convinced for a long time that it' is one of the major reasons we can hit the short clubs so much easier than the driver.
Funny thing is that we are only taking about a few inches. Amazing that a few inches head start can make that much difference.
Setup
Thanks, Steve for the very well written blog. This is a topic that I have also experimented with over the years. I've managed to play decent golf with variations in setup even more extreme than the ones that you have mentioned. My goal is to have an address like Surge teaches but it is probably closer to DJ"s. I think that for me, it is more important to have a very clear idea of where I want the club shaft to be at the top of the BUS, than to worry too much about a "head start" that might interfere with the flow of the swing. The "head start" would have to have a "natural" feel.
Thoughts on the head start
"Amazing that a few inches head start can make that much difference." Had to remind myself this is a family friendly board...
Anyway, this got me thinking. Back when I was a rotational player, my backswing, particularly with the driver, began with a forward press as in your #3. This led to all kinds of inconsistency, as it was difficult to get the exact same press every time, and the motion tended to make my wrists more active, which as we students of the Surge know adds more room for error.
What I've been working on is always keeping the butt of the club pointed into my left hip pocket. With the driver, this tends to give the feeling of the hands being much further forward (they are further forward, but not by that much). When I do this properly, I strike the ball well and cleanly. When I fall back to old habits of starting the hands more toward the center of my body, I often find myself whacking the ground first or hitting the ball too high on the face or too early or late in the swing, leading to pop-ups, pulls, slices, and all sorts of other fun stuff. This is especially true when I let my right arm get out of its proper drooped position.
Very interesting
I chose to rewind and replay several segments of this video (in order to understand everything) and will likely re-watch it several times again as I re-evaluate my own set up and swing, especially with the driver and the longer clubs. I will need to video tape my set up and take away again to see what my tendencies are currently. I particularly took note of those points on hand positions and the club face as I too tend to play with a closed club face almost exclusively with my driver and not the irons, unless I am promoting a draw or hitting a lower shot with a slightly hooded club face. Other wise I work on a completely square position. Again it is with the driver that I have that similar position that Don was discussing. Is it because I am aiming a bit right? I'd like to say no as I check my alignment process carefully. Yet it could be and that's why I need to do more video tape asap. Fascinating though and i look forward to Don's follow up videos concerning this.
I really enjoy these deeper looks at the subtle nuances of the swing.
Very Interesting indeed
The one thing I will be trialling on the hallowed turf this very day, will be the position of my left[lead]arm in relationship to the clubshaft. I mentioned this a few days ago.This video gave me another way of ensuring that I have the shaft pointing up my left arm at address. So much in today's video rang bells in my febrile brain, when Surge was discussing DJ's aiming and set up problems. LUCKY 13th of December here in sunny Wellington NZ
Thankyou again Surge for your unstinting help in solving our problem areas in this fascinating, and frustrating game. Now for the test.....DH
Spine Tilt
I just reviewed my setup with each club. What I have been doing, fairly successfully of late, is starting with the driver in the middle of my stance, as with my 7-iron, and the ball off my left (forward) instep. Once I've got my proper setup, I then tilt my spine to the right (rearward) just enough to move the club head forward to the ball - about 5 inches. While doing this, I keep everything else in the same relationship as before the tilt - lower body, arms, hands, etc. The only thing that moves is my spine tilting. As a result, my hands stay in the same position relative to my sternum because the sternum is in line with my tilted spine. I try (operative word) to do this consistently with all my longer clubs, the object being to swing every club the same. I'm managing about 63% consistency at present and aiming for 80-90% by Spring. Two impediments to this are (1) random looseness in my wrists and (2) moving my shoulders relative to my spine; things to work on.
Left arm position update : - ]
The smile says it all. To the course, to find it absolutely over run with players.A couple of big competitions starting Fr/Sat/Sun.Snuck in on the 11th hole,which was clear and played 6holes only after arriving at 17 to find the mother of all log jams, with 3groups of 4 waiting to tee off. Worse on the 1st, so homeward we went on a high.
From the first hole, with the 'new' set up left hand grip, straight down the middle of the fairway with the driver.Exactly where it was aimed. Next shot the 24deg Rescue middle of the green laser like aimed at the pin and that is where it finished, on the pin but short. The first time I have hit this green in regulation : - ] and so it continued. Next hole the drive again went exactly where it was aimed. Thought it might have made the edge of the rough. Imagine my surprise to find it nestled in the middle of the fairway having filtered down off the slight left to right slope : - ] Rescue club again, deadly straight. Not as long [a tad quick in the FUS], slowed down on the next shot and it went straight down the middle onto the edge of the green [again on the pin] This continued the whole 6holes. Had only driver, 3W, Rescue,8,9,PW,SW and putter in the bag. Didn't use the 9iron at all. The PW once only when trying out a shot with it right down the grip, instead of the SW to see the difference. Otherwise it and the 9iron were redundant. I could have played all the holes with driver,Rescue and putter IMO! Only used the 8iron for chipping, could have used the Rescue.
One thing is for certain, the grip change with the clubshafts running straight up my left arm seems after this one short outing to be, for me, a game changer. Owe it all to PPGS and the Surge Clan.
Off now for another swing session on the range mat. Keep on hitting them longer and straighter, more consistently. A VERY happy DH in NZ
Making shine
Surge
Great video. I am going to play with the hand position at work tomorrow on the simulator.
You know by now how my mind works, so this should come as not surprise. Are your neighbors behind you burning down the place, or are they making moon shine. Lots of smoke and people running around. If that were back in the Ozark mountains where I grew up, that would a good indication that they were starting a fresh run.
Just asking,
Dick
Moonshine Til Dawn in Bloody Bibb County
My family heritage. LOL
This was written by my mother's first cousin, and several family members are in the book.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1693&p=18224
He came over to Paw Paw's place one day to buy a mule. Paw Paw had a white mule and a brown mule, but the white mule was a lot better mule. VD wanted to buy the brown mule and Paw Paw kept trying to talk him into buying the white one but VD wouldn't do it. Finally he did get the white one but went to Tuscaloosa and bought some brown shoe dye and dyed the mule brown so people wouldn't see him going up the side of the ridge to his still.
He also had a little white dog he dyed green. LOL
P.S. He was also the smartest kid in his class and the Valedictorian. Moonshiners ain't as dumb as they appear. Ha ha ha!
Smoke
Having been an editor for graphics and print I tend to notice things that others may not. At 8:05 to about 8:15 or so you can see someone coming at the camera and then going to the left, operating a machine that was creating a whole lot of dust.
I thought the fire department was going to show up in the video, but it was only someone vacuuming leaves or tilling dry soil. Maybe something else. A real kick to see how the back yard changes through the year.
Figured it out a bit late
I watched it again and figured it out too. Looks like they were running a riding mower or something like that. Maybe I just had a batch of shine on my mind.
Dick
Aiming too much to the right
I have hit to the right too much, probably like DJ, and I have come to accept that I'm aiming over there. You have frequently mentioned that our hands come back to six o'clock, so I decided to take a look at my hands instead of the club head to see where they were at the start of the swing. While doing so, I noticed my feet. What I saw looked messy. I decided that I should see a triangle--equilateral or isosceles--between my hands and feet. When I trued myself up, I just felt that the line from my feet was going the wrong way, usually to the right. So, I adjusted my feet, then looked at my target, and maybe adjusted my feet some more.
I also decided that I had to change how I assessed where that target was once I thought I was ready to swing. Since you're facing the target at the end of the swing, I thought maybe I should face the target, or better, parallel left of the target when deciding whether I really was lined up correctly. If I had to turn a lot, I knew I was pointing the wrong way. More feedback, a new source of information. I hope a new habit. My aim did improve and so did my swing, because I wasn't trying to compensate so much for bad alignment.