I've often used the acronym NOB when discussing head position in the setup. It stands for Nose Over Ball. But, I've had to rethink this because I believe it's sending out the wrong message.
Curtis Wegner posted a question on our Facebook page asking where his head should be with all the different clubs in his bag. For example, where should the head be when hitting a driver as compared to when you're chipping just off the green.
Head position on irons vs. driver vs. chipping: When I set up with my nose over the ball using a driver I don't do so well. I learned to start back and stay back on drivers. Start ahead and stay ahead on irons.
Those are both great sayings, but I think that one of the issues here is that Curtis is using the term nose over the ball. Initially, this is my fault because I always used to say the acronym NOB, for nose over ball. But, I've come to find out that students tend to bend over more and have been trying to get their nose directly over the ball. Instead, I actually want it directed at the ball. So, it should really be NAB, nose at the ball.
Unless you are left eye dominant (right handed golfer), you don't want to cock your head back either. Whether you're right or left eye dominant, I want your nose at the ball, not over it. How do you know if your nose is at the ball? Well, all you have to do is get in your setup, close your eyes, then open them and the ball should be at the center of your focus. If you've got your nose behind the ball and check it by opening your eyes, you'll be focused behind the ball.
As I move to a longer club, I turn my head a little bit to the point where my nose is pointed at the ball. I have to turn my head because with a longer club, the ball position has moved forward and my head is more behind the ball, so I must turn it so the nose is pointed at the ball. You never want to be NBB, nose behind ball.
The key is that no matter where the ball is at in your stance, you want your nose at the ball, NAB. So, this one is my bad because I've always taught it and described it as NOB, nose over ball. I came to realize very quickly that NOB was not the correct way to share what I wanted. It's critical to keep the nose in the middle of your focus.
Bad ball position and looking in the wrong place are going to give you a big problem and you'll struggle with hitting the ball with any kind of consistency. With the ball too far back, you are effectively aimed right. If the ball is too far forward, you are basically aimed left. Having your nose at the ball is a key component to eradicating a lot of your problems and getting the setup down to a simpler technique. It's optimizing you to see the ball in the center of your vision.
Keep it vertical!
The Surge
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Comments
Translation is different things to different people.
Surge,
Thankyou for confirming this very important point. I had problems some time ago with knowing where my nose was pointing [don't laugh you ratbags hahaha]. I have a long, flat, blue tee peg,which I used in practice, by clamping it lightly between my teeth, under my nose. This was helpful to me. I was able to keep my head steady until the top of the FUS. I will revert to that again today to see if there is any diffference from what Surge has described in today's video. Still on cloud nine after yesterday's round. A happy chappie in NZ. DH
Blue Tee
Sooo, DH, if I ever find myself on a course in NZ and spot a guy with an attractive caddie setting up PLHR with a blue tee in his teeth I can assume there is a good chance it might be you? ;0))
Here's hoping you stay on cloud nine.
Or it may be..
Or it may be one of his disciples learning from the wise one :)
Nose over ball vs Nose at ball
This makes more sense to me. I'm getting new glasses (one set for golf without the trifocals. I'm sure this will make a big difference in my aiming.
you understand
Bingo!
You understood what I was trying to say.
Surge has been on the alignment so long that he automatically dials it in despite the back shoulder being so much lower than the front shoulder.
Was it my eyes or?
Watched round two of the Sony Open in Hawaii this afternoon our time here in NZ. Did the course and competition committee have the German car manufactures for the great advertising at the end of the 16th hole? Hahaha. The four palm trees beyond the green and almost perfect facsimile of the VW Logo!
Yes or no? The eyes have it ; - ) Alignment, alignment, alignment. The comments from those explaining their views of the alignment of the eyes in relationship to the upper body, were very interesting.
On the subject of the eyes. I have progressive lenses. After watching previous videos by Surge and for some time now, I have been playing without them on at all. Only use the spectacles for reading and driving the car. I can now see the ball up to around 200+yds after striking it. Even into the sun, I have a pretty good line on the ball and can march on that line without any bother. My good looking Caddy is my eyes and a great help. Noted again today, that Keegan Bradley when lining up a putt, looks to be turning his head to use his dominant eye to check the line while squatting behind the ball. Was that it or again, were my eyes lying to me? DH in hold on to your hat Wellington NZ
Aloha whoeeee
How about those two rookies leading the tournament? Ah paradise. Sure is looking lovely in Hawaii compared to last windy/rainy week! Loved the sound of the ocean. Miss it here in the desert. I think we're ready for a little island time.
Kind of going the opposite way next week as we head off to the mountains where lots of fluffy cold white stuff is waiting. Been getting my ski legs ready in the gym lately. Morning workouts 4 days a week and two afternoons does the trick. Hope the wind calms down for you DH so you can have another go at a record low round of chasing that little ball around the golf lands.
Cold in Las Vegas tonight - 26*f. It'll be 12* in the mountains. Brrrrrrrrrr.
Break a leg mate!
Robert,
Have a great ski-ing holiday this coming week. I miss my Winter ski-ing trips to the centre of the North island ski fields on Mt Ruapehu. Some hilarious and scary moments. Being airborne upside down 12feet in the air on an un-intentional ski-jump, certainly focusses your mind! ; - ) or the time someone yelled 'rocks' and I deliberately became airborne, wrapping myself around an attractive, wide eyed young lady. Had I not done so, I would have had a very steep drop to contend with. We both laughed. No harm done. In all the years I was lucky never to have had a real injury. So you two be the same. Come back ready for better weather and better golf.
DH in very wet and very windy Welliington NZ B*gger, the sun has just broken through, Hallelujah! Now stay there, pretty please.
skiing
Learned to water and snow ski as a child. Actually years before golf. 11 years ago went to visit my cousin in sunny Southetn Cal. In March. After a day at the beach he told me he had an appointment up at Big Bear ski resort for a try out as an alpine ski instructor. What? Really? Yes and I might as well join him and try out too. Thought the idea was not practical as I lived 4+ hours from the resort in the Las Vegas desert and was working full time from Mon-Friday. What the heck, we would get a free day of skiing out of it.
Surprise ....... they offered both of us a job as part time instructors. We went for it and I ended up doing it for two seasons in 2003/4 and 2005/6. Was so cool. Awesome experience. Turned out I only had to show up three week ends a month. So I would head to the mountain at 4am from LV and with no traffic and a lead foot get there in 3 1/2 hours. Ski and say Saturday, all say Sunday and back home Sunday night and at work 9am Monday. Ahhh.... to be 44 again:)
I'll tell you about my bad wipe outs another day.
skiing
Learned to water and snow ski as a child. Actually years before golf. 11 years ago went to visit my cousin in sunny Southetn Cal. In March. After a day at the beach he told me he had an appointment up at Big Bear ski resort for a try out as an alpine ski instructor. What? Really? Yes and I might as well join him and try out too. Thought the idea was not practical as I lived 4+ hours from the resort in the Las Vegas desert and was working full time from Mon-Friday. What the heck, we would get a free day of skiing out of it.
Surprise ....... they offered both of us a job as part time instructors. We went for it and I ended up doing it for two seasons in 2003/4 and 2005/6. Was so cool. Awesome experience. Turned out I only had to show up three week ends a month. So I would head to the mountain at 4am from LV and with no traffic and a lead foot get there in 3 1/2 hours. Ski and say Saturday, all say Sunday and back home Sunday night and at work 9am Monday. Ahhh.... to be 44 again:)
I'll tell you about my bad wipe outs another day.
Enlow Grips
Reply to Robert Meade, TM :
Finally made it to dome after busy holiday season in Chi Town. Could have been outside on course as temps were pushing 55 degrees!
Installed Enlows on Driver and 8 iron. Prior to dome just made practice swings in basement. Only was able to spend half session.
Convinced grips are real deal. Prior bad shots would hook left. Not today...
Most shots were dead straight with occassional push right.
Looking for input as to why no hooks?
My thought is that size of grip prevents me from turning over hands excessively?
When on tried hybrid with midsize grip, felt weird. Never going back now to standard or mid.
Going to install Enlows on rest of set.
Thanks again Surge for recommendation for game improvement!
Phillip
Tee On 13 Golf
Can't go back?!
Philip,
It is difficult to convey here in words the feelings of a truly big grip to our fellow Surgites. But I feel the same as you and most others who have commented about the large jumbo grips. I had my opinion confirmed on my only second time out with the Enlows. Particularly with the scoring irons , 7-gap. On the par 4 #1 at muni I had 105 to the pin that was only 12 feet from the right side of the green. Hit my pw to 3 feet. On the par 5 # 2 hit my 7i from 142 to 20 feet. Next hole, par 3#3 hit the gap to 8 feet. That actually was my favorite because it flew so high and straight over the top of the flag. looked like it had a chance to hit the stick. So it takes a little getting use to these grips but after you do, I agree it especially helps keep the wrists and especially the right hand quiet through impact.
Glad you like 'em pal. I must admit I still like my Jumbo Max too. I am calling it about a tie between the two. So if anyone really hasn't decided, they may want to get one of each (as Terry did) and try both for a comparison.If anyone is worried about the swing weight effect, I don't think it is enough to cause a problem, to the contrary it may give you a feeling of easier speed of swing.
Nice report Philip,
hit 'em long and straight!
You can't have it both ways
Surge Nation
Looking at todays video from a strictly scientific perspective, would tell me that only with 7i, which has the ball positioned in the center of our stance, would our eyes be parallel to the target line or the toe line. If the ball is in the center of our stance, and our nose is pointed at the ball, then our eyes would be parallel. If we stick to what Surge tells us to do, and move the ball even with our left instep on the driver, it would put the ball 4"-6" left of the center of our stance. In this case, we would have to move our nose a couple of degrees to the left to make it NAB. That means our left eye would move behind a line parallel to our toe line, and our right eye would move ahead of that line. This means our eyes are no longer parallel left of the target line. So, it can't be both eyes parallel left of the target and toe lines, and NAB, except when the ball is in the center of our stance.
Do you "See" what I am saying?
Keeping it vertical, and NAB, in Oklahoma,
Dick
Have it both ways!
Hey, Dick,
I'm trying to keep my eyes focused on the line on the carpet and my banana split at the same time - not working too well LOL!
I was going to do a long scientific analysis but I don't have a supercomputer. The short take - if I keep my head still in reference to my shoulders and tilt the shoulders, the head should also tilt and change where my nose is pointing accordingly. At least that is how it seems to work for me.
Keep your priorities staight
Kevin
No matter what happens to the ball, or the target line, ALWAYS keep your eyes on the banana split. You can always just buy another dozen balls.
I know what you are saying. I was kind of being "thong in cheek." Sorry, can't help myself. Nice play on words, and a nice thought too. Wonder how that would work as a swing thought. Probably just distract me with the mental picture.
I don't have any problem grasping the idea. When the right shoulder drops during the PLHR, the eyes are still parallel left, but not level. But, when we turn our head to the left to put the NAB with the driver, we are turning our head counter clock wise a couple of degrees. The eyes are no longer parallel left. I personally don't have a problem with it. I think it is such a small amount that it shouldn't make a difference. I think it is more important to be NAB so we have a clear view of the back of the ball.
I think the banana split tops the root beer float. But, since I don't have the fixings for the split, and I do have the stuff to make a float, I will settle for that right now. Thanks for reminding me.
It is time for the mid night run on the fridge,
Dick
Midnight Run hahaha!
Eyes parallel but not level is my read on the position. Just checked with the Driver.
It may be midnight for you, but for me it is 7pm the day after. Fridge run? Never been a problem for me, hahaha! My Dragonlady makes sure of that hahaha!
Only viewing the Open in Honolulu and interior warm ups here at the moment. The sun just broke through after lots of the wet stuff and very high winds.
I am trying not to fill my overloaded brain with too many thoughts. It seems to be working thankfully. A firmer grip and not pulling the club inside too early in the BUS certainly worked wonders the day before yesterday, Friday!
Now to be patient and wait for the guy upstairs to be the good guy he is and lighten up on the weather ; - ) Hit them longer and straighter in Oklahoma. DH
Over my head
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5aW08ivHU
I'm a see ball, hit ball guy.
Funny. You may be from the
Funny. You may be from the Twilight Zone.
From
Could be. All I know is that my head starts spinning every time people start getting into all of those parallel eye lines, 90 degree lines, shoulder tilts, head cocks.....(Wait a minute I'm dizzy again). LOL
WOW
To much to think about.
The greatest player to play the game had his head turned to the right during his swing.
Stop complicating things
Okay, people. You seem to be getting wound up with a lot of excessive worry about stuff. I'll just say one simple thing. When I make sure I have my nose pointed at the ball, I hit a good shot. When I chunk the ball, I inevitably have my nose pointed behind the ball. Simple as that.
Yes, Jack Nicklaus turned his head to the right. He was left-eye dominant, meaning that he could see the ball just fine with his head turned to the right. Unless you're one of the small percent of right handed people who is left-eye dominant, doing as Nicklaus did will cause you mostly trouble. Nicklaus also did that so that he could turn his shoulders further. As we don't want to turn our shoulders further, that's another reason NOT to do as Nicklaus did.
Not Me
Okay, people. You seem to be getting wound up with a lot of excessive worry about stuff. Not Me
Actually Jack said he learned to look down the left side of his face to see the ball never mentioned he was left eye dominant and yes it was to make a bigger shoulder turn but it kept his head still not shifting around
I was not suggesting anyone here do that was making a point.
Yes a lot of the people here do worry about things to much and forget to just go play golf.
My swing is in a pretty good place right now yes its a vertical swing and it is my swing with a lot of Don's ideas incorporated and I own it.
I am not going to set around all year to try and make it perfect because nobody has a perfect swing.
What I will be working on is 125 yards and in and course management thats were I will be able to lower my scores going forward.
Sorry
Didn't mean to sound like I was particularly thinking about you getting crazy, Mike. Sorry. That just popped up as a second thought in my head because your comment about Nicklaus was just above the posting box. ;-)
So many players could improve their scores a lot just by learning some course management. Look over the hole, know where you want to approach the green from, and then figure out what you need to get there. Remember what your best clubs are and figure out whenever possible how to get yourself in a position to use them.
No Problem
Robert
No problem my friend.
I totally agree with you. IMO people take these dailies as great as they are and nit pick them apart and they might not even apply to them and tend to try every tip that comes across with out realizing when you are trying to change things in the golf swing it could take months. There were things that I worked on last spring that did not fully set in until late last season.
I guess what I am saying we as students make things way more difficult than they need to be.
125 and in.......
Hey Robert and Mike,
I really like the reminders to work on course management and the short game. the thought of getting ourselves in the best position to hit our best clubs is right on it. Crazy how I'll forget that at times and then pay for it by giving myself an awkward yardage like that 45-75 yard range. I am just altogether better from around 100 yards. So unless I really have a chance to reach a par 5 (or leave the ball where an easy chip and run is open) I am so much better off laying up to the side of the fairway and distance where I can take a full swing. Much better chance for birdies and pars. Same with par 4's. A driver is never automatic on a shorter par 4 under 350. I might hit a great drive 280 and then have 70 yards over a trap to a tucked flag. Rather hit a fairway wood, hybrid or 5 iron and have 95-120.
I have the most confidence in my 9, pw and gap.