Most golfers today have at least one hybrid in their bag. Over the last ten years or so, hybrids have become a mainstay in golf and it's because they are usually a lot easier to hit than long irons. Even professional golfers have made the transition to hybrids, so it's important that we all understand how to hit them with the best results.
Gerry Everding has a habit of pulling his hybrids to the left. He believes that his ball positioning is the reason for his misses and is looking for some help on exactly where the ball should be whenever he's hitting a hybrid. Ball position could be what's causing his pulls, but I'll also list a few other common mistakes that can lead to similar shots.
Surge,
I enjoy getting your email golf instructions. They have been helpful in improving my game. However, I have a question on ball position, specifically with the hybrid #2 and hybrid #3. I hit these clubs solidly but tend to pull to the left. Can you enlighten me on the correct ball position when using these hybrids?
Thanks,
Gerry E.
Ball position is certaintly critical on any golf shot with a hybird, iron, or wood. Let's say that you've got perfect alignment. If your ball is too far forward, even with perfect alignment, the clubface will be pointed out to the left by the time you make contact with the ball. Remember, with perfect alignment our toes, knees, hips, shoulders, and eyes are all parallel left. Even with that, if your ball is too far forward, you are effectively aimed left.
Correct ball position is so important. You basically want to always play your hybrids somewhere at or slightly behind the forward heel. Because we flare our feet in the PPGS setup, we cannot use our toes as a gauge for ball position. Instead, we gauge the width of our stance and ball position by our ankles.
Another thing that could be causing Gerry to miss left is turning too much in the backswing, which can bring you out and over the top. Even with good ball position and proper alignment, you can still be over releasing and sending the ball out to the left because you've abandoned your dynamic balance with too big of a turn.
One last big issue would be alignment. If any part of your body is not aligned parallel left of your aiming line, it's probable that you're going to hit the ball somewhere other than your intended target. Make sure that everything is lined up parallel left every time you swing the club.
Whenever you're trying to fix a flaw in your game, always start by checking your alignment. After that, check your ball position. Once those are both correct but you're still having trouble, check to be sure that you're not turning too much. All of these elements will effect where the ball goes.
Keep it vertical!
The Surge
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Comments
ball position with hybrids
Per the PPGS manual, the pivot point of the swing is at the top of the sternum. The swing itself produces an arc of a circle. Given that the PPGS is an arc of a circle on a vertical plane, there is only one point which is closest to the ground ( in math it is called the point of the arc tangent to the ground). Also in PPGS, we are trying to hold the set up body position fixed until after impact. Should not the impact point be, ideally, at that tangent point ? If so then for balls resting on the ground, ball position should be at that point regardless of the club being used. I can see that for balls on a tee that the ball should be positioned further forward because we are trying to get the ball up in the air.
Not exactly.
You're forgetting that each individual club has a different amount of shaft lean built into it, so the optimum place for your HANDS to be at impact doesn't change, but where that puts the club head at the time does vary.
Ball position
I am a bit confused by your comment. If the club shaft is setup for the shaft to lean forward, how is the loft measured? With the shaft leaning forward or with the shaft in line with the leading edge of the club? I thought loft was measured with the shaft essentially in line with the leading edge.
Loft vs. Lean
Loft is determined by the angle between the face of the club and the shaft. Shaft lean is created by the angle between the sole of the club and the shaft. Yes, in theory, the lean of the shaft lessens the loft of the club somewhat, but that's taken into account in the gapping from club to club.
Ball position
gundling, I see your logic, however the swing has been described as eliptical or an oval. That gives us anywhere from a few inches of ideal hitting area to several inches of an ideal hitting area. This is why the "on on on square and solid" approach is great if we can learn it because it helps us stay on that aiming line a bit longer through the hitting area than some other swing styles. It is what helps us hit a straight shot even though we may be a fraction fat or thin (hitting a bit behind the ball or bit after the 'tangent point' you speak of.
Here is perhaps the best lesson on ball position we ever received on this web site.
https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/ball-position-and-hands
Here is an oldie but goodie on why the ball moves slightly forward as the club gets longer and has less loft. basically we want to hit the longer less lofted clubs with an ascending strike to optimize height and distance.
https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/ball-position-critically-important
Having said all that, one of the best ways to determine where the best ball position is FOR YOU is to simply make note of where your divots start and end. Though they should be shallow ( bacon strips rather than pork chops) we want to hit the ball just before the spot where our lowest point of arc (or tangent if you prefer happens through the impact area). That will be slightly different for each individual because of out personal arc and where we bottom out relative to out sternum. Yes, some trial and error is needed. Ball first contact is ideal in most situations except when hitting out of a green side bunker.
Robert M - Hands and ball position
Thanks so much for that video showing the hand position in relation to the different length of clubs by Greg M. Wow, the lightbulb in my brain flashed brilliant. I've been hitting driver really well and even my 3 wood off the turf but my irons have been breaking down. My hands have been moving forward, in my setup, with the different lofts until my hands are forward and as a result, my irons have been weak. I can't wait to get back out there and apply this. Thanks Robert for showing this because I missed that one.
Pair that with Surge's posture daily today and I'm confident I'll win my winter league tourney tomorrow. So cool.
Greg C
Ball position
Robert,
Thaks for the reply. I agree that the swing is an oval but I think in the PPGS that it is an oval after the impact point. Prior to that it is the arc of a circle. I think it looks like part of a race track. Up to the impact point the swing is on the turn. After impact it is on the straight away due to weight shift and the effort to keep the club on the target line as long as possible.
I believe the only way one could flatten the arc near the bottom of the swing, before impact, would be to pull the arms in slightly. I don't think PPGS does that. The head of the club will be on an arc as long as the radius from the top of the sternum to the club head stays the same.
Impact position
In addition to things already said "the set up body position" is certainly not fixed until after impact. Not even close.
At impact the shoulders are more open than at address. The hips are more open than at address. The hips are further ahead of the top of the spine than at address (if you do it right, which I currently don't but I'm working on it). The legs are in a different positon than at address. And the positon of the arms is not even close to that of address.
Impact is a totally different thing than address and to try to make it the same as address would be robbing almost all power.
As Robert said the arc of the club head is not a circle. The weight transfer and the position of the arms and the club allow the club to travel more in a straight line both horizontally and vertically through the impact zone than the rest of the arc. It's why a divot or mark in the grass can be in a very straight line and very shallow.
My club head is so shallow for so long through the impact zone that it can actually be a disadvantage and a problem in more grassy lies or when the ball is sitting down. On those occasions I have to intentionally make a steeper swing.
Ball Position
You may have found my problem. I have been trying to return to the set up position when I swing. I do this because I have found that I have a strong tendency to let my arms lag too much. This yields an open club face and a push or slice. I have an awful lot of trouble getting a shot to land left of the target line. From what I understand, in the rotational swing the body is fairly close to being faced to the target when impact occurs. In the PPGS I guess the body is only slightly past the set up position when impact occurs. Yes?
Impact
There's really not a cookie cutter answer to that question. It is unlikely that any of us are going to have identical impact positions (and quite a few can work very well).
For example Surge and DJ look nothing alike at impact. Surge's hips and shoulders are more open, his left arm is pointing quite a bit at the ball, his spine is still relatively straight, his butt doesn't come off of the original butt line very much and his hands are higher than at address.
DJ's shoulders aren't open very much at all, his left arm is completely vertical (which VERY FEW of us can do), his spine is hunched over, his hips fire inward causing his butt to go inside of the original butt line and his hands are very very close to where they were at address.
My best swings have a few components of both of them and I don't consider any of those things swing flaws. Unfortunately I also add a couple of things that I do consider swing flaws. Too much head movement in general and especially raising up too much before impact.
I'm working right now on keeping my butt more on the butt line and keeping my head and spine angle down until impact. Even though DJ also doesn't stay on the butt line and raises his lower spine he stays down with his upper spine and his head. So I'm not sure where my attempted changes will lead.
Ball Position
The best notion I ever found on where the world is in front of my feet came from the Carl Pelz Short Game Bible---to put my feet together so that the line between my heels and shoe soles is the pointer to straight ahead of me; then I can know where the ball is relative to that and move my feet to get the ball where I want it to be. Simple but very quick and direct. Thanks for this great lesson about hybrids.
Ball Position
I agree, Robert.
I have been having great success of late hitting the ball where I want it to go. Accurate distance up around the greens is still an issue, but as I get more consistent, I'm hopeful that I will be better able to choose the right club.
A recent daily from Surge focused how he gripped the club. I was in the habit of setting the club on the ground square to the target, and then taking my grip and stance. The change that I have made is in the set up. I followed Surge's tip to hold the club out straight from the shoulders, taking my grip so that the club's leading edge is perpendicular to the ground. Then I lower the club and as I get into the master set-up position, parallel left, PLHR, I set the club to where the leading edge is perpendicular to the aiming line. This posture then dictates the position of the ball.
From this angle of view, each club has a different look. My ball position is where the face will be perpendicular to the aiming line at impact. A consistent grip gives me the confidence to swing through the ball naturally.
This extra step in setting up the grip has been huge for me. I now know that if I pull it, or slice it, it is most likely my alignment. Those ponds on my course that have ball magnets in them are less intimidating. I just focus on setting up more carefully and trust the swing. It seems to be working.
Cheers, Deb
Thumbs up
Thumbs up on your progress Deb. good stuff. I set up and take my grip very similarly to what you've described. My feet don't move at all after I walk in. The alignment is set so it is only my posture, PLHR and grip that get last second adjustments. I too set my grip and square my club face according to that chosen alignment. Holding the club up in front and aiming the handle (grip end) toward my left hip is ideal for pre setting the angle of the shaft. Then simple lower the club behind the ball with the spot just in front of the ball to hit over and I'm ready. I normally do not look up any more unless it is a short shot (30 yards or less) and I want to reconfirm the exact spot where I want the ball to land on the green. Otherwise I just give it a brief waggle and go.
I agree with that consistent grip thought. In fact I have gotten more and more inclined to treat each club, especially from iron to iron as the same in every aspect. I swing my 4 iron the same as my pw. The only time things are slightly altered are of I need to hit it low or higher or fade or slice on purpose.
Trusting the swing is it indeed. Does it always come off right? hell no:0 But more often than not. What a game. love it.
With Surge and our cool family here, we have a road map that always brings us good results to the extent we listen and apply it.
Glad to here from you. I always enjoy your comments. sounds like your game is coming along great.
Note; That accuracy around the greens is really important as you said. Make your practice sessions mostly about that. Spend most if not all of your practice time before and or after rounds of golf on and around the green. The short game is where scoring happens as you know. I am always amazed at most golf courses I go to that you see golfers pounding ball after ball (bucket after bucket) on a driving range and only two or three players are putting and or practicing their chipping. I'm the opposite. I rarely hit balls on the range. I play so often now that my precious practice time is close to 100% around and on the green.
Here's an idea for you. Get really really great with one club around the green. For me it's the 9 iron. It's my go to club for nearly all chips from 15 yards and in. For my wife Cindy it's her 8 iron. After you master that then work on those tougher shots like the short flop over a trap with a lofted wedge. Soon you'll get better at others too.
Thumbs Up
Robert, As we say around here, Yeah you right!!!
From 100 yards in, club choice is problematic for me. With consistency an issue, if I hit poorly, nothing, but if I hit it well, then it's way over the green. This was making choosing a club a guessing game. I have bought a yardage finder, which helps both with selecting a club, and judging results. It has made golf that much more fun. Worth every penny.
I love your suggestion for chipping. It's the 9 for me. Kenny's video is great for this. It's such a bummer to get down the fairway well, and then blow it. Working on consistency is my primary focus. As my confidence grows, I am striking the ball with more authority, and having a blast.
Thanks for your encouragement. See you on the blog. Deb
Midrange
The least practiced part, even less than pitching and chipping and putting, is the weird midrange feel shots. I take about a third of my actual range time practicing hitting each club to varying distances up to their comfortable maximum. I practice high stopping shots and low running shots from 50 yards to 100 yards, and sometimes less than 50 if I can find a good target, and I'll hit with each club to know how far it will roll compared to how far I carry it.
Midrange
You are way beyond me on the touch shots. I'll be happy just to advance the ball, and not lose ground!!! My course is rather difficult, though. Alot more difficult than the situations in Kenny's video. I wish I had simple approaches. Greens are elevated, and lots of undulations around them. No simple bump and runs. Greenside bunkers look like St Andrew's. Anyway, that's my excuse.
Not complaining. The simple holes on the course are boring by comparison.
duplicate
dup:0
birdieeeeeeee eagle
dj birdie eagle start !! go onnnnnnnnnn !
Nice round
Good to notice DJ shooting a -7 65 today in Puerto Rico.
Changing To Hybrid/s
I have been using hybrids for the last 3 years. Within the first 12 months my handicap improved from 7 to 3. As usual - another good article from the surge !