Posture is so important because it has to do with your setup and as you all should know, your setup determines the motion of your golf swing. But, in order to have correct posture, you've got to have clubs that will allow you to put yourself in the right position over the ball.
Peter Ghagan was having trouble hitting his driver and he says that his friend noticed he was raising the toe of the club off the ground at address. He made an adjustment in his setup and he started seeing better results, which I think relates exactly to his posture.
Hi, from Surrey in the UK. I think your daily advice is the best and at 74 years of age I am enjoying my golf more than ever. Recently, I was having a problem with hitting my driver straight and losing distance. A friend noticed that I was raising the toe of the club off the ground when addressing the ball prior to commencing the swing. It occurred when making the movement by dropping the hands. Once I altered to being flat on the ground with the clubhead at address, much improvement resulted. Can you pass judgement please?
-Peter
Well done on your adjustment, Peter. Although Peter had this issue with his driver, the same problem can happen with your irons too, so that's what I'll use in today's demonstration. My guess is that Peter was out of posture and out of dynamic balance because his head was down. If any of you are wearing bifocals or trifocals when you play golf, you need to get rid of them because they cause you to tilt your head down.
Just remember that you want your arms to be able to hang down naturally and this stems from clubs that are the right length for you. A tall golfer doesn't necessarily need long clubs because it's not based on height. It's based on your wrist to floor measurement, which is something all of our certified fitters here at Swing Surgeon measure.
Lastly, it's always good to get yourself on film so you can see that you've got good posture. If you don't have a camera, have a buddy take a look at your swing. Then, you can return the favor and see if his or her posture is good too. Clubs need to lay flat so you can get those nice clean divots and relatively straight shots. Good luck!
Keep it vertical!
The Surge
If you can't view the YouTube video above try CLICKING HERE. You must allow popups from this site for the link to work.
Comments
DJ playing well
DJ had a clean scorecard including 3 birdies, one eagle and no bogies for a 67!
Sitting in a tie for 37th right now.
http://www.golfchannel.com/tours/player/dj-trahan/
Good tournament
DJ had another good day and looks to finish tied for 10th. Great to see him playing well.
Posture
Posture is so important. I both check mine by video occasionally and have Cindy remind me about it nearly every week. Played with a gentlemen last week and he was as Surge described. Was really bent over with hands set super low. He was hooking most of his shots. He was certainly striking his shots with an extremely upright club face but most of it was inflicted by his extreme set up.
As we know, a little toe up in the set up is fine as it may or may not reflect actual dynamic impact but when it's extreme it only makes sense it would.
Vertical Swing
Ran across this as I was looking for set up positions from different players concerning the head/eye position and the position of the lower spine and back.
I hadn't seen it before but I thought it was very good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ics5aZ8wqo4
As to what I was originally looking for: All of the older players I can find are looking at the ball at set up, and during the swing, through the center of their eye sockets, and had a rounded spine at address. Edit: My search took me to "Foveal vision" (makes sense now).
More modern players such as Adam Scott that had a straight spine and the head up matching the spine angle have recently very obviously changed that in their set up and now are also looking through the center of their eye sockets.
Vertical swing
Steve, great video. Really interesting to see the side by side looks of Surge and Jack, and the similarities in their swings. Goes to show you, we're on the right track. I'm thankful I stumbled on this site so many years ago, because I have improved, and my game at present is as consistent as it's ever been by applying the principles that are espoused here every day. I always look forward to the next installment, and the next nugget of information I can glean to help my game. Again, thanks for sharing. Mike
Thanks Steve
What a super evaluation of Jack and Don. We all should save this one. I'll be watching this again and again. Great stuff.
EDIT......
Steve, after getting home from work I had more time to watch that video of Jack and Surge. I then found Mikes part one video that goes into even further detail of Jack's upright swing and it is again a great study and watch especially for any fan of the PPGS swing and more on the how too's of a 3/4 limited turn upright swing. I wanted to add it on here for those that may want to watch it. I for one was (am) fascinated by both vids,
Thanks again for posting the original link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=LVMeoRR4T2A&NR=1
Posture
Hello Surge,
I found this a very valuable tip. I am now 65 and know that my posture has been changing a bit. I intend to use this advice when I play next. I also did not know
about club fitting having to do with your arm length. My arms are longer than normal so a club fitting is probably important. Do you know if there are any Peak Performance certified fitters in Calgary, Alberta, Canada?
Thanks,
Roy
Foveal
Hi Steeve,
The link you sent is indeed a treasure, thanks.
I came across this site to understand 'Foveil vision',
http://illusionoftheyear.com/2008/dramatically-different-percepts-between-foveal-and-peripheral-vision/
Can you elaborate, I still do not understand what you are trying to convey with regards to looking at the ball at address.
Regards
Foveal vision
I'm certainly no vision expert but from what I've read we are seeing something quite different in our peripheral vision and even the act of looking up or down to try to get objects into the foveal view effects depth perception.
If you look at most of the players from the past they had their spine rounded allowing them to see the ball through the center of their eye sockets, much as any of us would do if we were reading a book. It's very uncomfortable to read otherwise.
Somewhere along the line a completely straight spine with the head up and in line with that spine was thought of as the perfect position. Adam Scott was the poster boy for that position and pictures of him from around 2002 show it. Pictures now show that even he has changed that.
The reason I started trying to research it was that I am very uncomfortable with my ball striking unless I am looking through the center of my eye socket.
Turns out that it's not something I thought up first (or a figment of my imagination) and some instructors have already recognized it's importance.
If you look at the video at the top of this page before you start the video you will see that the still frame shows Surge also has the rounded spine. Not quite as much as Jack, Sam Sneed, or Travino but certainly not straight.
BTW I love the test on the link you gave. The first time I tried it I didn't see a change but then figured out that I wasn't focusing quite high enough above the computer screen. Then the objects that were moving from side to side in my foveal vision were moving almost up and down in my peripheral vision.
(Weird).
Foveal
Adel,
Very cool stuff. My how the eyes do fol us. Thanks for sharing that link.
Test
That test makes it easy to see how we might as well be playing blind if our eye line is off, and especially if we are moving our head around catching glimpses of both and trying to focus.
Foveal
Thanks for the link. It is interesting how the movement of the object seems to change, However, I note that this is with vision of an already moving object and I'm not quite sure how or if it would apply to a stationary object such as a golf ball. When I try the experiment with non moving items on a blank page they remain in the same position relative to center. It seems it would or could apply to a thrown object you are trying to strike, but still not sure it would apply to a stationary object. I think the motion is the key.
On another note, you'll be glad to hear we have a fresh 6" or so of the white stuff from over night. Lucky us. I think I'll go out for 18 regardless.
18yds of snow shoveling, that is.
Test
I don't think that anyone would say that the golf ball would be moving around like that test showed (although if our head was moving I wouldn't say it's impossible for some of that to be going on).
That test was put together to show that there is a difference between foveal and peripheral vision (nothing to do with golf).
People talking about foveal vision in golf are talking more about a slight loss of depth perception and/or being uncomfortable with a natural urge to get the point of focus back into the foveal view (sort of like trying to have the discipline to read a book with peripheral vision or even with the eyes rotated in the sockets).
(On that point I would almost bet the ranch that they are right).
Missing your strike point by 1/8 of an inch with a wedge on wet ground can be the difference between a great shot and a bad shot and a birdie and a bogey. Doing it once a day for 4 days can be the difference between winning and losing.
Would certainly explain why someone with as much forward head movement as I always had could still hit the ball just fine as long as I was constantly in a position to be using foveal vision, but made it next to impossible if my head position was off enough to cause me to use peripheral vision, or go back and forth, or have my eyes rotated in their sockets.
Everything in my experience in my own swing says they are correct and research of the great player's swings backs it up. The things they have in common are a fairly still head and angled to allow foveal vision.
I always knew what I did, and that I absolutely had to do it that way for any consistency. I just didn't know enough to be able to put 2 and 2 together and equate my head movement, my eye line, and my foveal vision (which I had never heard of) as cause and effects.
Now I not only realize the importance of a still head (which we have had drummed into our head for years) but why we might or might not have some limited success if we don't follow that rule but unlikely to have great success if we don't at least come fairly close to following that rule.
Vertical Swing
Hahaha! Thanks again to Steve Smith for posting the link on the similarity between Jack Nicklaus's swing and Don Trahan's swing. Coincidence! This very day I caught up with my old army golf mate from Christchurch. During his playing in the Army Inter-Regional Competition 10days ago, he forgot a golf book I had bequeathed him!!! I went this morning and gave him it back. He was back in Wellington for a conference. The book? Jack Nicklaus's Playing Lessons. Having two copies of it, I promised him a copy some time ago. Mission accomplished at last ; - ) Then home for a swing session. Looking forward to the next visit to the hallowed turf. Logged on to check mail etc, and saw the comments and links on Foveal vision and the video of Jack and Don. Great first time viewing. The similarities in their swings is quite noticeable.
The Foveal vision test was very interesting. My 'Lying eyes' are much less a pair of liars now I don't wear my spectacles on the course. Keep hitting them long and straight.
Next challenge. Have resurrected my old favourite wooden woods. Smaller headed driver etc. They are in excellent condition. It will be fun giving them an outing. On the front yard grass they perform the PPGS swing well. Having shortened my BUS swing, the swing through the ball up to the FUS and recoil is becoming second nature. DH
DH
Hello DH, I too really enjoyed the postings of Steve and the discussions on Jack, Surge and vision. About your small headed wooded clubs. I too still have several. I'm afraid they'd crack if I attempted to use them now. Several are over 40 years old and our desert heat has left them brittle. I might have them refinished and then give them a go. On that note I have re-organized my clubs and have found that I have 9 drivers of various vintage. Many only 8 or less years old and in good playing condition. Of the drivers, one of the most precious is the original "Big Betha" driver that I inherited from my dear old Dad. It is smaller than my 3 wood and yet was considered giant 30 years ago. It was one of if not the first metal driver of it's day.
Here it is (as pictured on e-bay)
http://compare.ebay.com/like/190815550494?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar
Seems tiny now
I also have 4 sets of very playable iron sets along with a great variety of assorted hybrids and fairway clubs. Not to mention my large assortment of putters and wedges.
The less than funny part is I still am yet to shoot even par with whatever clubs I use. Never ending quest. The Indian still needs more work and certainly don't blame my (arrows) clubs!
It is fun to have them properly organized and ready for use by me, my son or whom ever needs to use them in the coming days.
In any case it is a pleasure to look through all the older clubs and reflect on experiences back in the day. Good times with my Father and brother playing golf.
More memories to be made yet. Perhaps that even par round (or better) will still happen before I'm done :)