Do Golfers Need A Backswing?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 14:00 -- Don Trahan

If you've ever thought about skipping your backswing and just starting your swing from the top, you're not alone. Steve Ruis sent in an interesting question about the possibility of cutting out the backswing all together. He equated the idea to how a baseball player starts a swing with the bat at the top.

However, there's one big difference that enables batters to do this, and it isn't the size of the ball. Any ideas?

This may be the oddest question yet submitted: why bother with the backswing (upswing)? Has anyone ever experimented with skipping the backswing and starting at the top? The backswing doesn't seem to be needed for tempo (slow backswings are often coupled with fast downswings) and also seems to be a source of error by getting people out of position at the top. Could not we, like baseball players, start the the top, take a slight hitch, make the Bump, and swing away? Of course one would have to learn/find the correct starting position, but we have to learn all kinds of things to effect.

Steve Ruis
Chicago, IL
Appreciative owner of almost all of your videos!

You need to hit the ball with the club accelerating at impact. The transition from the backswing to forward upswing provides you with even more acceleration, so it's a big part of building power. If I were to just start at the top of where my backswing would be and swing, I've got no where near as much power. I don't even think there's any way that I could generate the same speed I had with my transition on a full swing.

There's a few things you have to remember when making a comparison with baseball. In golf, the ball is stationary. In baseball, the ball is being pitched to you at high speeds, so it's already creating acceleration before you swing. You're also swinging on a horizontal plane, not a vertical one. 

Overall, I think it'll work, but you're going to lose a lot of distance and it's just not very practical when it comes to golf. The fluidity of motion in the transition with the bump helps increase speed, so you shouldn't cut it out of the swing. It might be a good way to practice your positions, but I wouldn't incorporate it into your game.

Keep it vertical!

The Surge

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Comments

Robert Fleck's picture

Submitted by Robert Fleck on

Not only do you lose distance, but I've always found it difficult to get the right spot with the club if I don't start from a standard address position. There are enough chunks and thins in life without trying to add to them. ;-)

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

A foul ball is not a big deal in baseball but a foul ball in golf is an ugly sight.

About like taking a whack at a nail with a hammer just starting out from the top.

NeilofOZ's picture

Submitted by NeilofOZ on

When I first read the bloggers comment, I was thinking he may have a point, but after Surges response, he just blew it out of the water. The thing about baseball is that you never know in which direction the ball maybe coming from, so you far less time to react, in which case starting from a position that
takes the less time is paramount. Being an ex chippie, I concur with Steve's nail & hammer theory, ie you start from your finishing position so the brain
knows where the hammer has to go, then wham. Being an ex chippie, maybe
I should think about hammering the ball into the ground, but then that would obliterate the FUS theory, LOL.

NeilofOZ's picture

Submitted by NeilofOZ on

Steve, hows that action going keeping the forearm and club on the same angle in the FUS, any more progress. This week I had my first trial on initially keeping the butt going down to the ball, but there's still going to be some variation on where I release and or where the butt continues. I ended up with a 41 off the stick while playing in drenching rain, so it was a good test. Most pleasing aspect was the short clubs going 10M-20M further that previous and straighter.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Not good!

There's always tomorrow. Ha ha!

Lynn42's picture

Submitted by Lynn42 on

Interesting subject for me. I few years back I played with a gentleman who held his set at the top of his BUS for 4-5 seconds and hit his shot quite well. It worked for him, but as Surge says I think he may have been giving up distance. I'm sure my slower/more deliberate tempo in my BUS may well be costing me distance, but seems on most days to give me better ball contact and accuracy.

I'm sure a faster tempo will give me much needed distance, but the question becomes is the tradeoff worth it. There is a happy medium and as Surge and others have said it depend on one's personality. I've tried increasing my tempo and when I get the timing right the results are great. I haven't been able to get it right often enough. My Irish side won't let me stop trying, but it's a struggle. Just one of those things that makes golf the game we all love to hate. ;0)

Michael Schmutzok's picture

Submitted by Michael Schmutzok on

Carrying the baseball analogy even further, starting from the top of the swing would be akin to hitting in t-ball. The batter swings at a stationary ball. I'm not a professional baseball player but I have to think that I would get more distance from a ball pitched towards me than one that is stationary (or tossed upwards and hit, like one would do in practice settings). I would think the same principle applies for golf. We can't get the ball to move towards us but we can add more speed/strength to the swing by the act of reversing momentum at the top of the swing.

Robert Fleck's picture

Submitted by Robert Fleck on

There's a physical limit to how fast a human being can swing a bat, but the muscles can apply more force than that. When a ball is moving toward you, the relative difference in speed between the bat and the ball is much greater, allowing more of that force to be transmitted and thus sending the ball further. It's one reason it's easier to hit a home run off a fastball than a slider (aside from the relative difference in actually being able to hit the ball).

westwood's picture

Submitted by westwood on

I am sure that I saw a picture of an ancient golfer addressing a ball. He had (I guess) 70% of his weight on his back leg which was deeply bent at the knee with his foot pointing in the normal direction. However his forward foot (30% of his weight?) was pointing at 90 degrees to his back foot, ie Toes pointing to the target with a lesser knee bend. I had to try it at the range and it gives a very restricted backswing but a very full follow through and hip turn to the T position. It strangely worked best for my driver but I am too happy with PPGS to play with alternatives for too long. Happy golfing!

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Had a once in a lifetime and possibly a one in billion event yesterday. In fact if most of you choose to not believe it I'll be alright as I am still trying to comprehend it.

My brother and I played the challenging Royal Links Golf Course yesterday. It is a UK Open replica with each hole a copy of a famous hole from several different classic locations in England, Scotland and Ireland.
The particular hole was the 504 yard par 5 #9. It is listed as 567 yards but we were playing from the middle tees. It is patterned after #5 at Muirfield.
My tee shot was good but seemingly unevntful. After striking it I saw it was flying fairly straight but down the cart path valley. I remember thinking to myself, 'I hope it gets a favorable bounce'. As we know if it did hit the cart path it could be good or a nightmare. At that point I wasn't sure where it was but we looked down the right side in the 240 area. We looked left,right,short, long. It seemed the golf gods had swallowed it up. After searching for 10 minutes I finally drooped a provisional and hit a nice 5 wood that left me about 90 yards for a third. Hit the third just on the edge of the green and as we walked up on the green we noticed another ball on the green about 40 feet short and left (nearly pin high)of the flag. Walked up to look at it and unbelievably it was my original drive. It actually was a Titlest #7 with two little stars aside the ball # marked by it's original owner. I had found it just two holes earlier in the thick tall rough/gorse. My drive had some how bounced down the cart path, likely several times before ricocheting up onto the green. On the green in one on a 500 yard par 5. What?! I just missed the double eagle putt by 1 foot and tapped in for the eagle three.
Crazy?!! The sad thing is we had no clue and never saw any of the ball after it bounded over some hills in between a valley where the distant cart path was hidden. Of course neither of us wanted to believe it and I am still dumbfounded. How cool. Took 55 years to happen and I will likely get swallowed by a Tiger shark sooner than ever experience anything close again.

Believe it or not:) Golf

I will post the hole that includes a tour of that hole. The picture before the video starts actually shows the cart path while the video does not.

http://www.royallinksgolfclub.com/course/hole-by-hole-video-tour/#9
notice, after the clip of the #9 it moves to #10, the road hole at St. Andrews.
Click back one to see the cart path of #9

Robert Fleck's picture

Submitted by Robert Fleck on

Is that like a double-greenie or something? Beats the hell out of my longest drive of 380 yards off a tile-roofed house. :) You cannot put odds on a thing like that, really. It just happens. Sounds like part of a really fabulous day.

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Thanks Robert. Yes it was a fabulous day. It was appropriate that my dear and only brother was there to witness the rarity. Actually Phil did something similar earlier this year. the difference was that they caught it on film and it ended up down by but not on the green and still on the cart path. That was the amazing part to me because my ball actually had to bounce up and left to get on the green and there are actually several bunkers by that green too. God only knows.

This was Phil's shot off the cart path after his 450 yard drive (cart path assisted distance too)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFNJH13wo7o

http://usgolftv.com/pga-tour/phil-mickelson-hits-450-yard-drive-down-cart-path-at-wgc-cadillac-at-doral-pleases-frankens...

Dave Everitt's picture

Submitted by Dave Everitt on

Robert that is really amazing! The angels were flying! How do you top that? There can't be that many people in tne entire history of the game that have had the opportunity to put for a double eagle.

All the best,

Dave

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Thanks Dave. Wished I'd actually seen all the bounce and rolls that must have happened with god like precision for it to get between and or over the pot bunkers near the green. I could comprehend it easier if it was a flat hard and fast fairway but it was rather plush unlike the hard dry muni I play most often. it had to be all cart path from my driver until the final bounce up onto the green. Though it was a Titleist golf ball I still wont bring myself to spend the $50.00 on a box of those. I play em if I find 'em! lol:)

I posted Phil's 450 yard drive and chip off the pavement under Robert F's comment. Golf rarely gives like that as we know it normally takes away! therefor we need to accept those rare bounces that seem miraculous:)

Fun indeed and a story to tell my future grandchildren.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Definitely longer than any ball I've ever hit. I've hit a lot of cart paths and got extra distance off of them but nothing close to that neighborhood.

I lost 270 yards because of a cart path one time. The ball got on the path and the path had curbs on each side and it rolled all the way back down the hill to the tee box where I had hit it from.

I guess cart paths giveth and cart paths taketh away. Ha ha!.

CharlieY's picture

Submitted by CharlieY on

About a month before Surge posted this video, I was having a lot of problems with making bad contact with the ball, around 12 to 15 times a round. I have a vision problems--double vision which results in very poor depth perception. On the practice range, I decided to use a tip I saw on starting the swing with the club already at the top, and my contact improved almost immediately. The best reason I can come up with is that my head was a lot more still, and I could locate the ball better in 3D space. even worked on unusual lies. I almost could convince myself that the ball looked bigger and brighter. So, I decided to see a full swing with a long pause at the top would have the same effect. It did. Net result--for the next several rounds, I reduced the number of bad contacts to the 4-6 count. Maybe absolute distance is sacrificed, but my average distances on each club have improved due to fewer thin and fat shots.

Lynn42's picture

Submitted by Lynn42 on

Nice to hear from you Charlie. I've actually experimented with a long pause at the top and I agree with ball contact improvement. Distance is an issue for me and I tend to move off the ball in my BUS trying to reach for that little extra whic leads to some rounds of iffy ball striking.

The key to better ball striking for me is a smoother BUS and less forced transition. The key is getting it right consistently and hoping I live long enough to get it right. ;0)

CharlieY's picture

Submitted by CharlieY on

Thanks for the comment, Lynn42. I stayed off the blog for months because my game collapsed, and when I disn't feel good about my game, I didn't feel like I had much to say.

But back to swing changes that go with the longer pause at the top, I slowed down my FUS 25%, and it also made a big difference in terms of quality of contact. At first, I was trying to use the instruction to swing at the speed that you final swing to be at, and learn to improve contact quality, but I'm finding out that I'm better at the opposite, to swing at the speed that you can make the quality contact you want, and then learn to swing faster. My main problem is maintaining the tempo. As the round progresses, my swing speeds up.

Lynn42's picture

Submitted by Lynn42 on

Charlie, we can all relate to game collapse at one time or another. I think I may hold the record on that score..lol.

Swinging under control can be tough for me especially when looking for extra yards. I try to make my practice swing exactly the way I want my swing to feel. ("feel the swing, then swing the feel"). Don't be a stranger and let us know how you're doing.

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Charlie and Lynn. Always nice to her from you experienced gentlemen. Seems you're not the only ones that hesitate to comment when you're playing less than your best. I am sure most and likely all go through phases of ups and down with more downs than ups! Physical health, aches and pains and just not having the time or circumstances to improve hold many of us back. Still it's those occasional good shots and fair rounds that bring us back to this game. Frankly even if I'm playing crappy I still enjoy joining the conversation with my fellow Surgites here and when "long timers" like you two and the other guys that have been here for several years.

I totally concur on the need to be aware of not over swinging or rushing from the top. I find a lot more in both distance and accuracy if I keep it to 3/4's and just mainitain that lower body quietness we often talk about. Timing and tempo beat out any search for power. Charlie, I'm with Lynn (of 42:) in hoping you continue to contribute. We love to hear from you. With warmer weather here you may find your game improving too. Hope you both have a pleasant Spring and Summer.

Terry Medley's picture

Submitted by Terry Medley on

It's good to hear from you again. Glad to here you are still in the struggles of this love/hate golf relationship. I know exactly how you feel about posting. I have only broken 90 once so far this season, and like Lynn I struggle with distance off the tee. My usual drive is well below 200 and closer most times to 175, Soo, as you can see, I've not much to post in regards to positive game results.

I too have a much slower BUS than FUS and find that it seems to work best for me. My sometimes problem area, as to speed, is getting too quick in either the BUS take away or the transition at the top. Getting too quick or jerky in either place is usually a top or chunk. I like the idea of a pause at the top of the BUS and think it might get rid of that sometimes jerky too quick transition to the FUS. I recall Bob Murphy always having a pronounced pause at the top of his BUS which seemed to work well for him. The biggest problem with my excessive scores for now is far too many 3-putts. If I can improve my putting and chipping and eliminate the majority of 3-putts, I would have no problem breaking 90 on most rounds and might even be pushing the low 80's now and then. That's not too shabby for 175yd drives and 160yd 2nd shots and needing a 3rd to get to almost all par 4's.

I seem to be running on here, but just wanted to say, Glad to see you posting again, as Slick Willy would say, I feel your pain.

While here though, I have to say WOW to Robert on his cart path assisted drive. How nice to have your brother present to share the event with. I am always excited, when I get some cart path assist and end up close to the other Guys in my groups. It's my only chance to exceed 200yds off the tee. I can't imagine reaching a par 4 in one, let alone a par 5. Congrats!!!

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Terry,

I agree we need to swing in rhythm and not go for more than we should to get results. I don't try to pause but follow more of a "one thousand.. two" tempo. Also, in hearing your thoughts on not hitting it over 200 often it does remind me of the best short game I ever was in the presence of, yes my dear old Dad. He was automatic any time close to the green. Yet after closing in on 60 he did well to hit it over 165 off the tee however he was always down the middle while I was searching for my ball 275 in the forest! Don't take that wrong, at 55 I'm not that far off from shorter drives and shorter fairway shots. Meanwhile it is my short game too that makes or breaks me. As much as I play I feel I should always get up and down within 100 yards. Do I? Of course not but it is always the aim. I spend almost no time practicing anything but my short game. Chipping and putting is where it's at. Chip it close and tap it in" is my mantra.

Thanks for the WOW pal. It means a lot to hear it from you:) Hey, the way I look at it, the golf gods take more than give so I'll take it even though it was a complete accident and 99% luck. It was nuts. I can only guess the way the ball must have bounced and ricocheted to get there. If only there was a camera involved from a blimp or something, lol!! I guess if one plays enough golf we will see many strange things. I still have not had a hole in one yet but after that bizarre drive I half way expect to see one soon.

BTW, I think there are plenty of cool events out there on the golf course for all of us. Go play!! Cindy and I are teeing it up at 3:30 this afternoon.