Can't Hit Some Of Your Hybrids Well?

Might just be me, but I'm getting a "No Video Available" through your link, even though I'm signed in to Utube

Thanks for the clarification on shoulder rotation and not forearm rotation. I sort of feel mine is more of a pivot/hinge of the shoulder than an actual rotation, but nothing I deliberately have to focus on, it just happens, as Lynn below says. Like you, it is the FUS, that I fuss about the most. I have been working hard on allowing gravity more control at the beginning and it seems to be helping.

Couldnt agree more! I use a 23* & 26* and if Itry and hit them it will all go wrong. Hit them at anormal swing speed and they go 180 to 200 yds no trouble so i always tell myself "slow it down,downt try to HIT the ball just swing" and hey presto . ball position is at bottom of arc, nothing technical but 4 me the swing tempo determines the success of the strike & distance with any club, pair this with a good set up and Success! straight and true.
Biggest fault is trying to Hit the ball hard then it will go wrong.
As for arrow or indian I tried out a set of #3,4,5 hybrids that were a set but could only hit the 4 straight proving once again what Don&Doc keep telling us
Thnx Surge in the 2 1/2 years ive been a member of a club & the 2 years ive been following your swing process ive gone from 18 H/cap to 10.3 and am now representing club in league matches, any doubters out there youve got to stick with it, but it doesnt happen overnight . Enjoy the game

Hi All,
Out two days running on the hallowed turf! The beloved 24deg Rescue was picked up from the clubfitter on the way on day one. Used it on my 2nd shot of the day after finishing in the middle of the f/way on the first shot. I aimed left to position the ball on the flat before a stream. It was puuuurfect! Exactly where it was meant to finish.The fairway and rough are on a steep sideslope all the way to the stream, with the stream curving down the right hand side of the f/way with trees in close proximity. The whole day was much better. Woods and irons behaved on the whole very well. The fairway way woods were smoking, longer and straighter. They were 30yds longer consistently. The irons from 150yds in were heart warmingly compliant to my demands ; - ) They too were much longer. On a couple of holes I was directly over the flag and off the back of the green!!! The pitch marks were middle of the green and 6-8'ft from the pin. So clubbing down was the name of the game. Accuracy with the irons on full shots from 8iron to SW great. Day one great.
Yesterday planned to play only 9holes [played 10]. The good ball striking continued. Both days the course was still quite soggy and the odd poor shot from the edge of the rough 3"deep and very wet, were the only problem I had on the two days.
Of note yesterday was the playing on two side hill lies, with the ball well above my feet.[Steve Smith tip on judging where to have the ball, by practice swing and seeing where the club made contact with the grass etc, worked like a charm.Thankyou Steve].Set up almost upright, down the shaft on my 5W aimed right and smoked it. middle of the fairway with a SW to the pin, one putt! On a hilly course this will be invaluable for future rounds.
On day one my ball hound, beloved caddy took me in hand. She gave me aiming points on each shot. Who ever listens to their wives? hahaha. Glad I did. This without a doubt contributed to the much more accurate and consistent shots. On one hole where I have always been on the green with an 8iron [Par 3 with a steep drop tee to green] usually on the front of the green or middle, the ball ended off the back of the green! So my biggest problem for the foreseeable future will be working out club distances for each club. On one hole the club in hand was an 8iron [left the 7,6,5,and 4irons at home].Thought I would be lucky to get close being 140yds from centre of the green, pin at the back. Ended up 5yds off the left hand rear of the green on the fringe/green edge! So 150yds+with a high trajectory shot!!! and it continued. A PW where normally I would have been using a 9 or 8iron over the pin and off the back of the green!
No more golf for a couple of days to come but plenty to reflect on of a positive nature. GBSAPS ad nauseum I wrote in my diary! Tem po and Ti ming as Robert Meade mentioned, was much better. Slower but not slow. My head doesn't move my probiscus [hooter, nose] off the ball until after I reach the top of my BUS and dip my head to the rear and down ever so slightly and swing UP to the T finish, then SMILE! I owe the smile to Don Trahan, PPGS and all the dedicated contributors for their insight into the problems presented on a daily basis. God Bless them all. A grateful DH in NZ Hit 'em long and straight where ever you are.

Here Here you got it.

Dave Tutleman has some good detailed info on swingweight and MOI at his site. He's built some irons with progressive swingweighting/MOI and detailed the info here:

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/d...

I think Tom Wishon has some info at his site as well.

On uphill and downhill as well as side hill the slop will be varied. Take a couple practice swings, note where your club brushes the ground, play your ball from that position. If you are like me, that position may vary slightly from day to day, even on flat lies and off a tee.

Wondering why I was 3 putting and started practicing with every grip under the sun. Claw grip, overlap, reverse overlap, hands separated, interlocking, pen grip, 2 thumbs either side grip, Bernard Langer's old braced grip , etc etc. Tried using arm putting, wrist putting, tracing a vertical reverse C with my left shoulder socket as a gear to moving my 'triangled' arms, wrists and club back and through. Tried opening my stance like Jack Nicklaus, wide stances , narrow stances . Nothing has worked! My final desperate measure is heeding to some of the theory that Marius Filmater has on some blogs. I think the root cause of all my putting problems is the disconnection of my right elbow from my body. Looking at Tiger and Nicklaus's putting strokes , the right elbow is held close to their side/ribcage for short putts or just brushing very close for longer putts , but never leaving any daylight between it and the right side. Using this putting action, I feel that I initiate the pendulum action from my muscles in the lower back which then move my shoulders at 90 degrees to my spine angle , not rocking up and down vertically like other teachers preach. It's a strange feeling but with practice I think this could be eureka time for me as I actually feel in control of the clubface rather than an anxious helplessness when face hits ball (which is probably why I peep upwards to see where the direction the ball has travelled).

T, I just watched it now. Maybe a YouTube glitch earlier.

No, uphill, weight more on the left foot (uphill leg). Just my experience .

Thanks for the additional clarification Robert. I can agree with shoulder rotation, although as mentioned to Steve, I think of my own as more of a pivot or hinge than a rotation. Potato, Pota-to.

I would like to know if you should move the ball back toward the right foot like you do with an iron when playing the ball from an uphill or downhill lie.

The claw grip is the putting grip I prefer at the moment too. Very low left hand [holding it like all the other clubs as Surge recently said] and a slight rock of the shoulders and no peeking ; - ) working well.

To Surge and students of the Surge Swing......This is not related to the topic but I would like to put this question related to the BUS, out there. For the past few months I have been using Surge's swing thought of "ringing the bell" at the top of the BUS. If I understand him correctly, Surge talks about having the feel of "ringing the bell" with the right index finger in one video and" ringing" with the right thumb in an earlier lesson. I have tried both of these and also even using the left index finger when hitting fades. Lately I have been trying to get both hands more involved in the swing with identical grip pressure by visualizing both index fingers simultaneously " ringing the BELLS" (plural) at the finish of the BUS.

I know, that all of this may be too much tinkering with the Surge swing, but each of these minor changes produces changes in my ball striking and I would be interested in anyone's comment related to this topic.

Am I correct in assuming that we cannot use PPGS for shots where the ball is sitting reasonably above one's feet? That we would have to consider a flatter swing for ball above our feet or where the contours of the ground make an upright swing inappropriate (ie. for balance reasons). I don't want to make the mistake of assuming PPGS theory is for every swing on the golf course (bar chipping , putting ). What about bunker play? Do we still try and incorporate PPGS set-up, limited turn , 3/4 swing up the tree for sand shots ? I suspect so for fairway bunkers where we are trying to clip the ball out without taking any sand but unsure about greenside bunkers (ie.where balls not plugged , etc). I tried PPGS out of a greenside bunker and it seemed to work okay, no deep exploding sand shot but nice and easy shallow bit of sand under the ball and it seemed to pop out with only a little effort.

Additionally, I have found that although it is recommended we align our posture and angles(shoulders,hips) with the slope (be it uphill or downhill), being still and stable is priority one. So on uphill stance shots I keep most of my weight on the front foot. On downhill stance shots my weight will be fairly even to slightly on my back foot. Trick is to stay there throughout the swing. in other words, keep your body passive with no intentional weight shift from back foot to front. On uphill take (at least) one club more and on downhill take one club less to account for loft changes caused by the hill. What Terry says applies. Practice the set up and testing both where the club brushes the groung and balance to find the best ball position. BTW, don't forget how much help there is on this and all other golf questions if we learn to use the 'search' posts area to the right side of this page. Also for in depth study and lessons on hills-side hill lies and shaping the ball flight purcase Surges video dealling with all this and more.

I'm just an interested amateur like most of the guys on here, but I have a weird brain for details and I've learned a lot about the golf swing and physics in my life. ;-)

Slow is long fast is short. Another words for every club in the bag its tempo, tempo , tempo

Just had a swing session outside on the deck golf mat. Noted that the odd swing strike was hitting the mat harder than normal. Also that over the past two days my left wrist and elbow were just a teeny bit sore! Took particular note of taking my grip on the three clubs I chose to practice with, 9iron, Rescue 24* and r7 driver. There it was before my very eyes. On gripping the club with the lead or left hand, my left arm was bent!!!Now right or wrong and someone will put me right. This could well be the reason for the odd 'chunked' shot. Had a couple of divot takers the past two days.Put down to the sloppy stance areas on those shots.Now think the bent arm going through the GBSAPS routine was responsible.
Laying the clubs down on a flat bench I noticed that the re-shafted Rescue club, was nearly the same length as the driver!!!!! Quick measure and it is definitely 2" longer than the broken shafted one,ie, it is now 41" long instead of 39"! HIt it well the day I collected it, so will leave it alone as it is at present.
Anyone else chunking, check out your lead elbow when you start to grip the club. Hit them long and straight. DH

Steve, I totally agree with you on a couple of points. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, but if it is broke ya better fix it. You're right, everyone has his own limitations and his own strengths. We all have to work with what God gave us.
Like some have mentioned I have no problem getting vertical with my irons ( longest iron I carry is a 6 ). I carry 3 hybrids that come close to vertical, but fairway woods are into the SBG if I want any distance even when choked down. Doc's driver is much closer to vertical as it's a much better fit than anything I used before.
I'm the poster boy for overthinking, by the numbers and hit at the ball rather than just swing through it. I've found with my hybrids and longer fairway woods my most consistent shots happen when the shaft is more in line with the top of my right shoulder than the base of my neck. If I try lifting after I reach the toeline in my BUS I invariably will lose spine angel and reverse tilt. Neither of those leads to good results.
Limiting my turn and being a little into the SBG seems to allow me to get a better weight shift and a better finish. I haven't a snowballs chance of ever duplicating the PPGS, but coming as close as my limitations allow has imroved my game and definitely enabled me to play pain free as often as I like.

Little off topic
Was at the range tonight there was a gentlemen there pounding drivers he had 5 different drivers he was hitting. I kept hearing something smacking into metal off in the distance and ask one of my tour buddies what that noise was and he said that guy is hitting that metal building off in the distance with his driver. I said no way, I stopped and watched for a little bit and sure enough he was. I shot the distance with my range finder and it was 360 to the building. I asked my buddy who the guy was and was told that he is a retired long drive competitor and was pushing 60 but he does not look it. Pretty cool watching HIM whack those long drives

It can be all three but I think it's down to my inconsistent swing. I'm definitely poor at reading lines and that's because I'm not using my dominant eye when lining up . I try doing this and pick an intermediate target along the target line and then hey presto it works , then the next shot I do exactly the same and it either cuts right or pulls left or plain poor impact . Just complete and utter inconsistency. Been trying this Marius Filmater tips about keeping the elbows tight to my ribcage at least up to impact. It seems to have taken some of the guess work out of my putting stroke. I shall persevere and see the results soon (as off to France to play at St Omer - 6 rounds in 3 days ).Wondering whether I should be using this same method for chipping (as I'm a worse chipper than putter).

Is Don going to do any videos showing how he pitches ,chips and hits out of bunkers? I've read some of his articles about set-up for pitches at different height but would like to see him in action. Wondering whether the limited turn and swinging up the tree is still pertinent to a pitch and whether the stance gets progressively open from pitch to chip

Surge prefers that you always try to swing along the aiming line, rather than the toe line if the toe line is not parallel to the aiming line. The reasoning is that cutting across the ball the way conventional teachers show imparts left-to-right spin on the ball, often sending it right of your intended target. Trying to swing out along the aiming line reduces sidespin and also forces you to keep your knees more bent and swing through the shot rather than cutting it off. Both are important for consistent bunker play.

Back when I was in college, we would often practice at the range of a little nine hole course around the corner, but it was right up against the small local airport, so they also had a sign that said irons only. They actually asked me to limit which irons, because I was hitting my 1 and 2 irons over the fence and into the airport land.

It is playing for me now. Must have been Gremlins before. Thanks for the heads up.

Happening naturally is just what works best for me,T. I know with my longer clubs I'm getting into the SBG, but I do what my body will allow. As long as I use a KISS mentality and come as close to Surge's PPGS as I'm able it works.
It's then a matter of timing and tempo. When I manage to just do it and not overswing I can play some decent golf. If I want to play 4-5 days in a row using the PPGS as best I can allows me to do that. I'm 70 and walk 18 holes. My body thanks me all the time.

Agree again with you and Jon. You're right on about tempo Mike. Guess the point could be made that we need to stay true to our natural tempo regardless of whether it's fast or slow. We don't need change it because the club "looks" different or is different. Even if we are hitting a shot with a half swing, knock down, high, low, whatever. Tempo should stay true.
Whenever I swing harder or change my normal rythym, as Jon says, bad things happen.

I have found 2 reasons for my chunks, and they are a curse on wet ground. 1 was from going after the ball too much, looking for that extra length or carry and over swinging as a result. 2 is letting my bump go too soon & too far as a result. This puts my lower body in front of my upper body & drops my back shoulder. I found by shortening my back swing just a little, helped. My usual back swing would finish at around 1 to 2 o'clock , from front on, but if I shortened my back swing to around 12 o'clock, where my forward arm would only just touch my chin, I had less chunks. Stops me from over swinging,& does not give my hips a chance to over react. You have to be careful not to stuff up your tem po & ti ming, by shortening too much. The only down side is ,you might replace your chunks for thins, but the normally go further & straight

Week in round report.

Saturday they said it was going to rain all day no rain. Shot 40 on the front and 34 0n the back with two birds had the one lone pitiful bogie on 18 for 34.

Sunday they said it was going to rain all day not a drop until about 7:00 pm.
Shot 35 0n the front with 2 birds 2 bogies shot 36 0n the back with that dread bogie on 18 again.

The only thing that I have been working on lately is the right forearm rotation in the BUS if I get it correct its like throwing darts.

You use the same swing techniques in general, though the swing will flatten naturally because of the lie. You don't change the basic motion, but the position you're in at setup will change the actual path the club takes. Less accordioning of the knees, and aim a bit more right as the ball will naturally move left from a lie above your feet.
The PPGS swing is perfect out of bunkers, and the only time you'd make any change would be if you had a fried egg lie or other reason to be very sharp into the ball, when you would intentionally hinge your wrists to make the angle of attack steeper into the ball.

There are some pitching and chipping videos in the archives, but to really learn the swing you should check out the short game videos. Surge's own and the ones he did with Kenny Knox. All great instruction for a very reasonable price.

What Steve said. It's not a question of FOREarm rotation but arm rotation, from the shoulder. That's what Surge teaches if you double-check the videos. The arms rotate in the ball and socket joint in the shoulders and nowhere else. I know we've had some confusing discussions about it before, and I previously misstated that, but I think we can all agree that rotating the forearms separately from the upper arm is a bad thing.

Steve Smith below shared the link to a video from Surge that answers what you thought this video was about. See here: http://www.swingsurgeon.com/Da...

This video was about why somebody may be having a problem with one subset of his clubs, and not with the rest of the clubs. That was the question asked, and that's the question Surge answered.

EDIT:

One more important point that's worth remembering. In the PPGS we never think about hitting down on the ball with any club. Yes, the ball may be struck just before the nadir of the arc of the swing, but we don't hit down. We don't take deep divots. Even the rotational pros will tell you that the best ball strikers take shallow divots, just ripping the ball off the grass, not digging into the dirt.

Off topic. Watched GC tonight. On The Range segment. Discussing Dustin Johnson' wedge woes.

Too much hinging of wrists....Wrist must remain firm and not flip.

Sound familiar?

Phillip

Lynn, God bless you that you are still cranking along and working on your game. I am laying low for the time being. Both of my shoulders are jacked up and I am taking at least two weeks off of golf and I will be on vacation for nearly three weeks from my extremely physically demanding job. I say at only 55 I'm too young and healthy for this sh#t to be happening to my joints and rotor cuff muscles but I guess I qualify just fine. Like Don recommends, we need to listen to our bodies when it comes to strain and pain. Though I'd rather play 4-5 times a week too, I am on a forced break. I will be living vicariously through you and the other golfers on the blog so hit straight pal. Don't feel too bad for me as we'll be up in Oregon for 12 days. The beauty of the forest and beach should be healing.

Before I even went to the video I new you were talking about Steve Stricker. I do my best to emulate him too. So simple and accurate.

A funny thing happened on my way to a long golfing weekend. As I went outside at dusk this past Tuesday evening to tend the Missus' babies (Nigerian dwarf goats) , I stepped off in a grass covered hole. That 4 inch drop was almost as long as the 2 inch drop when I used to back off scaffold board junctions building tanks. I slipped one of those 3 bad discs in my back but good. I immediately went to my pt exercises to get it back in position and wore my brace through Friday. Up until late Saturday, I could not take a BUS, my back would lock up just clearing the mitt or a tad higher. Today, after a lot of isolation drills,etc., I can finally get back up to my place in space. Been plucking the cactus and ringing the bell since right after dark, so since I'm off this week, I've penciled in a range session for Tuesday morning and if all goes well,I'm thinking of treating myself to a round somewhere nice too.
I hope all my golfing friends in the USA have a great Labor day holiday and to my friends around the globe enjoy your week with happy golfing.
F&G :)

Thanks Bob, I'll give it a look. I have checked out Wishon, Maltby, and a couple others, but not Tutelman. I have found arguments for both theories compelling. I was hoping that Doc might offer his preference if any.
For now, I am leaning towards making all the same as the one I hit best, which is the 8 iron at D5, although, there are good arguments for progressive weights as well, which is what I now have them at. The good thing is, if I make them all the same and don't like it, I have the ability to change them back at no additional cost, other than my time.