One of the most common problems that amateur golfers have is swinging outside to in. This can be caused by many different reasons, all of which I will go over in today's video. I'll also give you the solution to this swing issue and some drills to help you ingrain the right type of swing path.
Sam Leeper struggles with an outside to in swing path. He's looking for some help with this particular swing fault that has plagued him for far too long.
Dear Surge,
I have played golf for nearly 50 years (I'm 73). Fifteen years ago I had a 9+ change index. Today I'm a 15.5. The only consistent thing in my swing in all these years has been an outside - in swing resulting in a backspin on the ball and anything ranging from a small fade to huge slice. Wind is my arch-enemy and any club longer than a 7 will be short. In my younger years I had sufficent strength to overcome this malady but no longer.
My self diagnosis supported by many different club pros is that I am a terrible arm swinger and therefore tend to cast the club. Many pros have attempted to correct my problem without success. I have attempted to adopt the PPGS method including attending one of your full day sessions but the problem persists. Can you give me any drills that can help me with this terrible habit? One thing that I think would help me immensely would be to see your swing (One you use in the opening lead to all your daily videos) in slow motion from the side looking down your aiming line as well as the front. I am particularly interested in seeing the path of your right elbow in the down or forward swing. Would this be possible in one of your daily videos?
Thanks,
Sam Leeper
Unfortunately, I'm a one man show here in the backyard so I can't provide what Sam is requesting in terms of different camera angles and slow motion. However, the good thing is that everything he asked for is available in Surge's Shop. Check out the videos we have for sale because they offer more detailed instruction than the daily videos.
Keep it vertical!
The Surge
If you can't view the YouTube video above try CLICKING HERE. You must allow popups from this site for the link to work.
Comments
One of your best dailies Don.
One of your best dailies Don. Keep up the good work and maybe us poor golfers will improve after all!
Dear Sam
Your description was a carbon copy of me and for years I just stuck with it and grooved it until I become an "OK" golfer, nothing special. Now I'm a drawer of the ball and the greatest single element that changed was reading this blog one day and a guy named Steve Smith ( god Bless him ) mentioned that the Butt of the club leads the swing. This action was never/never/never mentioned in all my years of learning from professionals, it automatically initiates the "bump", brings the club inside the line and allows for an aggressive upswing also. At the range, use alignment rods/clubs as this takes the guess work out of being truly aligned, happy golfing.
Sam Leeper- A Truth Teller
Thanks, Sam, for telling the truth about your swing.
Many in the Nation were nodding as you shared the unvarnished truth about your swing. Made for one on the best dailies ever. This topic is one that we can not hear enough about.
BTW- wondering if Steve can re-post his "butt of the club" info.
Yes, God bless Steve Smith: he is also is a truth teller. I luv it.
What works, works, and Steve is not shy about that.
Leading with the butt end
I really don't even remember everything I might have said about it but it's pretty self explanitory here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gTQgK8QHVs
If you come "over the top" and throw the bat out and around you will hit the net. If you lead with the butt end there's no way to come over the top and the side benefit is more power and the lag of the shaft lining up better with the right forearm as the right elbow approches the body. (And in baseball it gets you to the fastball in time).
;-)
The Butt End
Steve, so eloquently demonstrated in the video, shame that Don can't latch onto this concept and change his mantra from "alignment, alignment,
alignment" to "butt, butt, butt, no argument", lol.
Great
That video is a terrific demonstration and a great drill, similar to one Dave Seeman uses at the clinics, to build in the proper weight distribution and shift as well as the motion of the arms. I need to remember to do that a lot more before my range sessions or course sessions. It should help keep me from getting so sloppy. :)
Outside to inside swing
Don this video is great. You are awesome. .
Outside in arm swing
Don- this is one of your best summaries of the causes of the outside-in swing. In particular, the whole area of arms and chest leading the way has been a real struggle for me. In the same way Sam mentions, I have struggled with this a lot. I can feel myself coming over the ball on my swing in many cases, yet I have struggled with how to fix this. I have finally started to be able solve the problem for myself with the following simple swing thought:
I remember that the downswing starts someplace around the top of the backswing, but doesn't end until the club reaches the end of the follow through.
As I watch my fellow players struggle with slicing and casting, it seems the most common thread is that almost universally they stop their swing about 4 inches after hitting the ball. Don- you never do that, and you always stress the follow-through. However, even the question presented here by the admitted "caster" is focusing on what the problem is "behind or before impact." I struggled mightily with these same thoughts until I realized that a simple long, continuous swing from start to finish helps do all the things you talk about. You will decrease or stop casting when you take a full swing- instead of thinking the swing ends at impact.
Points you made in your video:
1. Don't over back swing, don't over turn- basically don't over do any part of the backswing. This is a real key to success. You call it a 3/4 swing- and you are absolutely dead on with that point.
2. The "bump". Truth is, I have struggled to "induce" the bump the way you show it. I just can't seem to get all the parts moving correctly and I tend to over-think it. However, as I make sure I swing the club from start to finish, I find the bump now just naturally happens.
3. Arms leading, or chest leading the way. This is death for any chance of a good swing. However, for me I have found that by simply allowing the club to swing completely from start to finish it is very unnatural or awkward to let your chest and shoulders lead the way.
Anyway- my thoughts on a point a don't see stressed very often. I think for better players a full and complete swing is simply taken for granted. For me- it was like a whole new perspective of my swing.
outside swingers
hi don,
first time. i have just finished a book on teaching and i appreciate your patience and effort to get your ideas about the golf swing online for slightly older and banged up people. thanks don.
the main idea of my teaching method, and this will sound familiar to you as you have dealth with it over the years, is that you must teach in a way that the student can not misunderstand the concepts you are trying to teach them.
you can't teach from your understanding of the idea. you have to get into the mind of the student and connect with them.
for example, the bump idea.
some of your students think of the bump as moving the forward hip towards the target, while forgetting the back hip is moving in the "same" direction, for a split second. the back hip has to thought of connected to the front hip. it is moving laterally towards the target too. there is the disconnent.
as you all know, if they move the back hip (arms, shoulder, side, etc.) in towards the target line extended back from the ball, they are doomed to come over the top. and that is what most of over the top swingers do. makes fortunes for golf teachers...lol...so how do they teach the answer to the problem?
some suggest you keep your back to the ball when starting the forward swing. some suggest your chest stay at a diagonal angle to the ball as long as possible, (swing with your chest concept) thus making room for an inside out swing.one instructor said that you get out of the way back and out of the way forward, that is, do not let the arms crash into the body. however, that person is forgetting the back hip getting into the way too.
neil said something about the butt of the club leading the swing. neil understands what he is talking about, but i don't and neither do most of your club members. i can bet on that. he is just like many teachers i have met all my life. they know how to subtract 40-18 but they never realize that their little guys and girls never had to subtract an eight from a zero in first and second grade, and therefore will flip it over in their heads. (proactive interference from tasks done before)
the only way to teach this concept, one of the hardest in all of education, is to get into the head of the student. you connect! that is love by the way.
so neil, tell us what you mean by the butt of the club.
the butt of the club: from my head:
from my previous learning i have put a tee into the glue hole at the end of the butt, and pointed it at the ball while swinging back and forward. now i know that you point that tee about three feet behind the ball on the target line to get the proper plane of a rotational swing, or perhaps the surge vertical swing on the upswing.i also know that the upswing is wider than the forward swing, and that the arms must have room to swing towards ball.
so there it is, what seems so simple a swing as the surge has developed and others are now copying like crazy all over the internet, is not so simple after all.
an example: only one person was aligned properly at his one day lessons. one person! years ago, i tried to work out a mathmatical formula for my forward shoulder in relation to the target. it points, lets say ten feet (i am lefty) to the left at 100 yards, thirty feet left at two hundred yards, etc. if the forward shoulder points to the target, which most players seem to be doing, that is what causes a great deal of the problem.
surge, ask your viewers if that is what they are doing, and if so, that may be the reason for the righties, aiming to the right, and coming over the top.
get into their heads. not yours. you know. but....
anyway, hope i have added some ideas to your website for discussion. if you are interested in my book, which is kinda finished, it is free, ( i live very simply now and do not want any money stuff at this time) especially for all teachers, and i think of you as a very good one. email me at bt0813@att.net.
if any teachers or educators want it, (or parents) i can email you the entire book via attachments. i am 75 years old and care a great deal about kids and the teachers, and parents, that work with them.
i see the greatest problems faced by golfers are: alignment, slicing, injuries, divots, and the misunderstandings about the straight shot. (teaching how to hit it straight puts nonsense into the golfers mind. the straight shot is the hardest shot to hit. bubba watson has the right idea. never hits one...lol....)
sincerely,
bob tannenbaum hallandale beach fl.
Dear Bob
A teacher i'm not, but understand where your'e coming from regarding the power on interpretation/mis-interpretation. I became an "over the top golfer" due to an instructor telling me to just think about "getting the club head to the ball" as a means of me becoming more attacking and having know little sporting ability in any kind of bat/ball game, I followed that rule explicitly.
Now, when at the top of the BUS, I just thinking about the BUTT of the club leading from the top and aiming somewhere towards to the ball on the way down, this single action maintains the 90* angle between the forearm and the club, the longer you can do it, the more power you can generate. Hope this info is useful.
A-T & T
A-T & T
#1 Alignment
#2 How much we're TURNING
and
#3 Timing (bump lower body first)
Alignment, Turn and Timing
To my memory, that was the first time Surge detailed how he moves the right arm as it lightly brushes the side on the move to the ball from the top. Yes he has talked extensively many time on the roll of the right arm and hand but not just like he did today. I really appreciated the clarity.
It all starts down correctly because of the bump (timing) and the lower body initiating the forward swing FUS)
Notice his hips (focus on Don's left pant pocket and hip) It bumps or moves first and laterally toward the target.
It's that move that allows the move down to be from the inside and NOT over the top.
Perfect stills to watch surprising cure for slice
So I started learning from Don about two years ago, maybe longer. At that time I sliced everything, with the driver being the worst. So I've gone about fixing things one at a time, and the slices started disappearing in the irons first. The driver has been the fits, with really straight drives at times and the nasty slice that won't completely go away.
So I had an epiphany a couple of weeks ago. I realized that I was doing some turning, especially on my drives. Then in my urge to swing hard, I was pulling the club with my left arm, forcing the club over the top.
I reminded myself to focus on my knees with enough outward pressure to prevent me from turning AT ALL on my back swing.
LOOK at Don's knees (and head) in your pictures. They don't move at all on the back swing.
The last two weeks at the range, I have focus on my knees in the back swing and the driver is really responding.
Try it for all you with similar slicing problems.
Slo motion daily
Without a doubt, this is one of the best daily segments you have shown. It put all the other lessons in perspective for me. Today showed me the relationship between the swing and the bump.
T-Finish
After countless buckets of balls and months on
Driving range finally figured out what I was doing wrong today.hitting the ball more solid and straight even the driver.the one thing I noticed is that when I get the T-Finish my body from the waist up is titled to the right and not square to the target.any ideas? Really enjoy all the help and videos here.