The Fight Against Rotational Swing Theories

After such a compelling weekend of golf at The Open Championship, I thought I would keep it simple today and let you all lead the discussion on the message board below. Along with your comments about the tournament, I've provided you with some more talking points with today's video.

I often talk about the disadvantages of a rotational swing as compared with the Peak Performance Golf Swing. With today's video, I'm going to explain why that is. I'm also going to share some different messages I've received about rotational swings and other swing methods. Many of you found the PPGS because you searched for a pain free golf swing online. Unfortunately, there's a lot of other people selling swings of their own, which is why I get so many questions on so many other swing techniques.

So, I'm bringing the fight to all the other swings on the market today and I challenge you to do the same!

Keep it vertical!

The Surge

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Blog Tags:

Golf Instruction

Rotational Swing

Vertical vs. Rotational

Comments

The Fight Against Rotational Swing Theories

Your logic makes sense to me!
Surge on!

The wilderness of swing methods

I've tried a lot of them and this is the only method that keeps getting better, for me, with time. I think that Surge's daily videos and viewer comments are largely responsible for this constant improvement. It wouldn't make much sense to ignore the elephant in the room. People have to know the advantages that the upright swing has over the rotational swing, otherwise they would have no incentive to change.

All or Nothing

Like the process: change was needed. inquiry made. solution found.

And I admire Don's passion and commitment. But.....

It's just so hard for me to have any credibility in the marketplace of ideas, with my golf community, if I mention the battle against the rotational swing. The elephant is having a lot of success. Ask Phil. Not all RS players have pain. My golf friends will have me for lunch on this topic. They even have some inadvertent PPGS elements in their mostly rotational swing. No pain to speak of. And good results- some of them scratch golfers using the inferior swing.

I've spoken about the "PPGS is a Viable Alternative". This is a conversation starter. The "battle" mindset, to me, is a conversation stopper : "We are right and they are wrong." Oh. Well that settles it. I guess it really is all or nothing. Speaking of that....

I've enjoyed your comments, exchanges and insights, Surge Nation.
I just don't think this approach is gonna get meaningful traction in the marketplace, and I'm certainly not comfortable with the dogma: not when the
RS works quite well for a number of golfers. Really better, IMHO, to just lead with what you have to offer, ask how it's going with the current golf swing, offer your proven and viable product, and then let the free market work.

Adios.

To Robert Fleck, Robert Meade, Doc, Smith, and the rest. Thank ya'all.
I wish Surge and the PPGS Nation future success.

BTW-RM, good call on the Mizuno JPX's. They rock.

RS or PPG

I don't know what video you have been watching, but the one I just re-watched here ,to see what I might have missed, is telling me that, if I wish to learn the PPG swing, I will have to fight my old rotational habits, to do so,
If you choose to be offended by what you have seen ,then I guess you have found what you were looking for, & that the truth is in the eye of the beholder. Good luck with that RS swing

Actually....

Thanks Rusty. I actually have a limited turn, upright swing, very much an adapted PPGS. Never again will I practice the rotational swing. An adapted PPGS has saved my back and sanity. Don Trahan is the most passionate instructor I've ever seen & heard. I actually strongly believe in the PPGS essence. I focus on lasting results.

Let me take another look at the video. I may have missed something.

i love getting into the conversation with the RS community, and they could end up, Ironically enough, being one of Don's best referral points.

Heard an RS instructor the other day actually recommend Don Trahan to one of his students, and I thought.....Exactly. That's what I'm talking about.

That instructor was open and honest enough to make that call, and I can't imagine he is the only one. Apparently, PPGS is credible to him.

"PPGS is a proven, viable alternative". That is an open-ended conversation waiting to happen. That I can stand by and promote without any hesitation. Lead the conversation with what you are for, with your strengths, and watch the dialogue launch.

And Russty, my adios is retracted. Thanks for the conversation. There's more good stuff to talk about.

BTW-hope the ground has stopped moving down under.

edited 6:52 pst

Good stuff

Good to hear you are not cutting adrift from us completly SG. It does come across a bit strong, the one side of street or other comment, as if you are either with me or against me. Probably said without to much thought, while trying to get a point across. I do think that all golf swings, no matter what they call them selves, are similar, as they have to produce the same end result. The rotational swing will probably always be more popular, so long as theres a good supply of young, supple players taking up the game. Old blokes like me with dodgy backs, will stick with Surge.

No shaky ground for me, as I'm a fair way north of that, but DH is right amoungst it.

Cheers Russty

Cheers

Single Plane Golf Swing

This method is being touted all over the internet by the Frank Graves Golf Academy as being the simplest and best as it was employed and taught to
Frank by the possessor of the purest swing in golf. Namely Moe Thurman!
Famous for winning in Canada and also possessing the Guinness Book of Records feat, hitting 1540 balls on the driving range in 7 hours and all within
15 yards of each other.
I have been trying your method and following your daily tips for a couple of years now and at age 76 am considering the Single Plane method as it looks like it's so easy to learn and easy on my old body.k Please comment.

Moe Norman

I have been trying to "swing like Moe" since the 1995 article in Golf Digest. The single plane does not mean you swing the club back and forth on the same plane. It means you club plane at address should be the same as at impact. So, at address, you reach out for the ball. The club, when swinging, goes under and over this plane. Except for reaching out for the ball, their teaching isn't much different than that for conventional golf. The Pro with the swing most similar to this is Carl Petterson. I have read and watched just about everything about Moe Norman and his legendary ball striking. I have the "Single Plane Solution" video and am a member on the Single Plane Academy Website. The problem is I can't seem to make the swing work for me consistently. I think I fall forward on the downswing. I actually think Moe may have thought of his swing as "vertical". He put coins behind and in front of the ball and tried to pass the clubhead over them. He never wanted the feeling of his hands crossing over each other and he wanted to keep everything in front of him. Anyway, if you get real good at the "Single Plane Swing" you can win a lot of money on the course, because an awful lot of bad golfers instinctively look like they swing that way.

Single Plan

Eagleden,

Surge has discussed Moe Norman and actually in a kindly and favorable manner.
I will give the link to watch. He does talk about some clear differences and why one may want to go with the PPGS.
I hope this helps you consider your choice. Good luck.

https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/natural-golf-similar-peak-performance-golf-swing

Single Plane

RM: Thanks for posting the great link showing the differences between swings. I'd lost it and couldn't recall where I stashed it! :-) Don't know how you do it but I for one REALLY APPRECIATE your in-depth, auto-retrieve system!! Anyway, I've played golf for over 50 years, and never really knew what I was doing until the PPGS came along. It works, plain and simple.... and if you understand it, self-correction and swing repair become almost automatic so we don't spend the whole season trying to "find" our swing again! In years past, I tried other swings, but every one of them has something wrong with it which leads to an inconsistent swing. The PPGS has helped me play the best golf of my life, with no pain, and has put the fun back in the game for me! Take care, and as always, hit 'em straight! R2

Easy fix

R2,
You are welcome and correct about the easy mid round fix with the PPGS. As far as the retrieve system, I have always found that helping fellow golfers and Surgites to review Don's answers is a better way to help them than giving a quick answer only. Too, when we direct them to the archives, Don's vast library of dailies that have answered nearly every possible question and many like alignment multiple if not dozens and dozens of times, we are helping them learn to help themselves in a more permanent way. What's the saying?... "give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime". I have found that when I have to put in the time to research (search) for an answer, I will remember it and it will have a deeper impact and meaning. As Surge said, "knowledge and understanding leads to commitment and conviction." Giving them a quick answer only is like giving them food for a day only.

Here's one more old saying that applies,

"If you tell me I'll forget"
"If you show me I'll understand"
"If you INVOLVE ME I'll remember it (and own it)"

As you know, if people really want to 'get' this swing and every basic along with it they need to one, buy the lesson videos, two physically put in the time to practice and learn the method and then three, learn to utilize the search bar on this web site so they can look up and retrieve any of the now thousands of dailies on all subjects that Surge has covered these last 4/5 years.
Of course I would add one more. If they ever have the privilege and can afford it they should get a personal or group lesson from Surge and or one of his teachers.

BTW, I haven't fully utilized the radar yet. It is a cool device but with the heat I don't often spend much time at the range but rather play most of the time. I will put it to better use in the Fall. Thanks again and I really appreciate you too pal:) Hope you are getting in some golf as often as possible:)

Easy Fix

RM: I readily agree with your comments - the lesson I had with Doc Griffin there in Vegas a couple of years ago made a HUGH difference in my understanding of the PPGS. Per your "old saying", I was "involved" in it and Doc took the time to very patiently explain what I was doing wrong and what I needed to do to correct my swing. I can never thank him enough for that hour he spent with me! Anyway good to hear from you. Enjoy the use of the radar this fall. And yes, I'm playing more golf and REALLY enjoying it! R2

Single but not plane ; - )

Hi R2,
Another welcome voice from the past. I concur with everything you said, including the target of your comment, RM! The self-diagnosis or self-correction comment has been proven yet again this very day. Sore from 'NOT doing it right' I managed to get out with the sun out for a change to swing on the golf mat on our deck [patio] driving range. Early in session one, the light went on again : - ) and as soon as it did, instant bliss when I did it. My new swing thought for our next trip to the course will be-"One-and-Toe"! Our old friends Tai-Ming and Tem-po, together with what I self-diagnosed.
So simple really and how could I not have been doing it?????? After the top of the BUS I had been swinging with the hands, arms and shoulders, but NOT transferring the weight on to the forward foot through impact~!!!!! So the swing thought above, cured that in seconds, with the clubs flying up to the high T finish and recoil. Not even a smidgeon of the season and solved in seconds, by using the thing between my ears and analysing what I had not been doing. Now a happy chappy again.
You enjoy your golf R2 and keep on hitting them straight consistenty and keep smiling ; - ) DH

GBSAPS

Hey DH: Good to hear from you! Isn't it funny how we can forget one little thing about the PPGS, and our swing goes belly-up :-)) But, if we just get back to the basics (GBSAPS) we can fix what is broke!!! I've been there and done that - forgot to transfer my weight - and suffered the ugly result lol... I really like your "One and Toe" swing thought so I'll use that in my next outing when my swing starts to exit my feeble brain! Take care, stay dry, and enjoy each golfing moment! R2 (from a very hot and dry Utah).

GBSAPS indeed

Hey back to you R2 : - ) good to hear from you to in very hot and dry Utah. I could have won the lottery knowing that you would mention GBSAPS my friend. I thought of it as I typed out the first message to you, and thought, 'No way am I going to steal R2's thunder on GBSAPS!" Back to basics it is. Yep a nice rythm with "One and Toe" worked well in both swing sessions today. Now if the weather gurus are not lying tomorrow [barring another earthquake, Friday 5.6 and Monday 6.5 with aftershocks still continuing], we will be out on the hallowed turf tomorrow : - ) God willing. It should be a bit drier after no rain during the day today. Which course in Utah? Then I can google map it ; - ) and think of better weather hahaha. Stay safe and well and don't be a stranger to the guys. You have been missed. Regards, DH in shakyville, NZ.

One and Toe

Good evening DH. Just wanted you to know your "One and Toe" worked GREAT for me yesterday. I shot a 40 (par 35) on the back nine, on a very challenging course about 15 minutes from where I live (google map Schneiter's Riverside Golf Course in Riverdale, Utah). I normally shoot 47 or 48, but using your "one and toe" swing thought, I hit some of the best short and long shots I've ever hit!!! My score would have been even better but I got greedy on a long par 5 with LOTS and LOTS of water and tried a "short-cut" for my 3rd shot to reach the green. Bad idea! Hit a beautiful shot that hit the bank about 2 yards short of my target and the ball bounced back into the water! Darn! Ended up with a 7 on that hole. Interestingly, for some reason your swing thought even helped with my putting - go figure!! Me thinks it ties my timing and tempo together in a more controlled, smooth, consistent manner. Anyway, thanks again for your great idea, stay dry, stop shaking and keep us updated on your game. And as always, hit 'em straight! R2

One and Toe

Good evening R2, it is early evening here and it has been dry for two consequetive days : - ) Got out yesterday and played 8holes only. The course was chokka [as they say down here], you couldn't move for 'mad' golfers everywhere. Can't blame us after the weather we have had of late.
I am very happy that the "One and Toe" worked for you, LONG MAY IT CONTINUE TO DO SO~! Confirmation that it works pleases me, knowing it is worth continuing with. I had not used it when putting~!!! That will change next time out on the course. Tai-Ming and Tem-po tied together in a more controlled, consistent manner. Couldn't have put it better myself Roy. Thanks for the feed back. I will update any further progress after we get out next week on the hallowed turf ; - ) Meant to be more settled for at least four days next week.
Will google map Schneiter's Riverside Golf Course in Riverdale, Utah later. Thanks for that. Good Luck on your next outing.
Regards DH [smiling with expectation : - ]

Single Plane Swing?

Hi to our Surgite nation,
Here we go again! Moe Norman,Frank Graves.....etc. Different strokes for different folks comes to mind. As Surge explained this very day, many of us are 'tweenies' ; - ) and I am no exception. Totally a Surgite from the word go, and that will never change. The improvements in my short game has been noteworthy from the beginning. Now I could do as many, many more real "TWEENIES" do and that is jump ship and go to another method, and another and another and another, ad nauseum! I like hordes of golfers seeking the quick answer to make them swing and play like the pros. Well it didn't happen as my raddled, old carcass can bear witness. Years of misery and PAIN! You know, backache, elbow,wrist.....etc! Well all that changed when I joined the Surge nation~! The only time I suffer pain now, is when I DON'T DO IT RIGHT! : - ( Now the reason I gave it a try, was it was touted to be the 'Body Friendly Swing'. Not the one which promises to make my drives like the 448yd drive during last week's British Open by Charl Schwartzel of South Africa in no time at all. It plumb won't happen, reason being we are not all Phil Mickelsons or In Bee Parks. When many of us get over the 'drive it MILES' syndrome and concentrate on a swing which doesn't hurt us, or is beyond our physical and mental cabilities, then the sooner we will benefit in so many ways. For me, The Peak Performance Golf Swing, fulfills that and then some.
Yesterday in one of my swing sessions, between earthquake aftershocks and showers, I over rotated in the forward upswing several times. Today I am paying the price for such heresy : - ( That focused my mind today to CONCENTRATE more with immediate results. Another lesson learnt the hard way, but I know it will be improvements in my FUS and I will move further towards being a true PPGS body friendly swinger. The weather here is meant to improve from Thursday here in New Zealand and all next week. So my comments if I make any will be shorter than this one.Reason? I will be out spreading the PPGS message on the hallowed turf and doing it right!
Good luck to those who choose a different method of swing. Believe me, you will pay with your bodies.
DH

RE: Moe and Distance

Don and I have discussed the various swing methods and philosophies in detail. Don's assessment of Moe Norman's "Natural Golf" swing is that it is far from natural. The wide stance required of this method absolutely produces excessive strain on the spine as it is not in position to absorb the peripheral forces demanded of it during the swing. Don points out that you can not finish correctly with that stance and as he says you can't even sniff a "T" finish.

In terms of driving distance using the Peak Performance Golf Swing "PPGS" I offer this. During a meeting with Steve Mona, CEO of the world golf foundation I brought to his attention the success and power generated by Jeff Sluman on the Champions Tour. Sluman uses a near perfect if not perfect PPGS. I pointed to the distance that was generated by a man so small in stature using this swing. We had just worked with Steve on the range and he acknowledged the point. Don then mentioned the results of inquiry as to who was the longest driver pound for pound on tour several years ago. Most people guessed that the answer would be John Daley but it was found to be Jeff Sluman swinging vertically.

Re: Moe and Distance

Wayne Coolidge,
G'day to you as they say down here in shaky New Zealand : - ) I am glad that you and Surge have given a brilliant example of how good the PPGS swing is for all golfers. I have been a convert from the very first time I viewed the 10 FREE videos, and have never consciously looked back towards my rotational swing days. As I explained above, when I don't do it right, my raddled old carcass is the one to suffer! In effect, if it hurts, you are definitely not doing it right. It is a constant reminder to me.
What a coincidence, during my earlier golfing days, when I quit smoking and took up golf instead, Jeff Sluman was a player I admired! I must watch the Champions tour more and see how he is swinging these days.
As a vertically challenged golfer ,or as I like to say, normal size [choke, gurgle, giggle], I just smile at the multitude of players I see every time we visit the hallowed turf of the golf course, who whale the bejaysus out of the ball, driving it miles past my ball. I am satisfied to be on [or in as you in the US of A would say] the fairway way back with a perfect lie and oodles of choice for my next shot. They however are, in the creek, among the trees or worse! Golf is not just a game of brute force and ignorance is it? Then what is it in the human psyche, that wants to send the ball ever further? As soon as I realized CONTROL of distance and direction were far more important to me, I started to improve. As I progressed on my quest towards my holy grail, to be the best I can be, all circumstances considered, I became convinced, that the PPGS way was the ONLY WAY to achieve this! In the few short years I have been a devoted follower of Surge and the Surge Nation, compared to my rotational swing days, I have seen more, upfront, homespun, common-sense, physiological, information, confirmed by physics and results than in the decades I was a rotational swinger! I thank you, Surge, his team and the myriad of dedicated Surgites, for the wonderful Spirit and Esprit de Corps of this site.
Breakfast calls. Have a wonderful and successful day and keep on spreading the message, which gives so many, so much joy and pain free golf.
Respectfully Yours DH in Shaky NZ ; - )

3/4's and long

Wayne,

We really appreciate it when any of Don's team comments directly here on the blog. Thank you sir. I concur with your observations and it always amazes me though it really shouldn't any more how far I hit the ball with the simplest of vertical 3/4 swings. I call it compact and piercing. I have noticed that the last couple of years there are more and more pros who are getting closer to 3/4's than parallel at the top. Too, we have seen more than a few that are swinging much more vertical than previously. another one of note is Henrik Stenson who Paul Azinger commented that he was more uopright in his back swing and finished facing the target and not way left as many others. As a result he was #1 in fairways and #1 in GIR's for the week. If not for a few mishaps around the green and missed putts he would have challenged for the victory.

Hadn't considered Slu, thanks for the comment and we hope you chime in more often.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Jeff+Sluman&mid=2B737C7416C5BFAB1AF92B737C7416C5BFAB1AF9&view=detail&FORM=VIRE3
You are correct Wayne, Sluman looks nearly 100% PPGS

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Hendrick+Stenson&view=detail&mid=2443A7FA781F54E34AB52443A7FA781F54E34AB5&first=21&F...
Not as vertical as Sluman

Chiming in

Thanks Robert. I have been collecting golf specific performance data for five years. I met Don three years ago when I was seeking the ultimate body friendly golf swing that did not compromise results. Clients were rehabilitating golf related injuries only to return after resuming play. It seemed like every time a client did not return and I contacted them or saw them later they said that they simply had to give up the game because of orthopedic considerations. I adopted the PPGS personally and now endorse it when possible. I intend to be more active on the blog as time permits. I am busy now organizing my new "Golf Science Solutions" business venture which will focus on all human performance aspects of golf. Don obviously is the instruction, technical guy and I am in charge of all non golf instruction aspects of golf. I am busy vetting products that will be offered to Surge Nation with each product earning its place based on quality, safety and its potential for enhancing human performance specific to the game of golf. We will not be hawking products simply for the sake of profit like I see more and more on the net. Ours will serve a purpose and that purpose will be explained. I enjoy your comments and I know that Don appreciates your support. I know because he mentions you as he does others specifically from time to time.

Chiming in

Compact and Piercing

Compact and piercing....great choice of words. If u ever get the chance, would u consider posting a video clip of your swing?

BTW-Anyone hear from Steve Smith ?

Busy

Steve's got a lot on his plate these days so he's just dropping by to watch the videos when he can.

Surge Swing

I have never been a proponent of one swing, but a product of several styles garnered from almost 50 years of play. I stumbled across this site several years ago, and felt at the time the process made some sense, and most importantly, was a simple, straightforward method that deserved some further investigation. I purchased the start up package of videos, and went to work absorbing as much as I could. My game has never been as consistent as it is now, nor have I enjoyed going out to play as much as I do now. Don's main swing thoughts have given me a platform to work off, and coupled with the daily lessons, I've been able to play the way I always wanted to. Like someone above said: you can repair your swing mid round, because the methodology allows you to break it down and find the cause of your problem. Also, the accuracy has been increased to make scoring easier and your opponents are more easily discouraged if you're always in the fairway, and they're not. I've always been a "whatever floats your boat" kind of guy, and I've never espoused one swing over another, but if anyone ever asks me about my game, I always tell them to go to this site, and check out the information available, and make their own mind up. I know I've said this several times before, but I want to say "thanks" again to Don for all he does. Mike

faster swing with the driver

I do not understand how you can swing your arms faster by holding your knees quiet. This was mention in your driver video. Please explain this to me.
When I bump my knees move.

Thanks ,

Pondeli Apessos

Quieter in the backswing

Yes, when you bump, your knees will shift forward. You hold your knees quieter and more stable in the BUS to ensure that you have a solid foundation to fire your arms forward in the FUS. You only hold your knees up until the transition. When you ring the bell and bump, the lower body shifts slightly toward the target, allowing your arms to drop into the slot.

Shoulder Alignment

Don,

I am working hard on the PPGS. I still have a problem ensuring that my shoulders are aligned correctly.. Do you have any tips or drills that can help?

Thanks, Randy Glay

Shoulder Alignment

Randy Glay,
Sometime ago Surge mentioned a quick check method [if my befuddled old brain remembers rightly]. I used it a few times to check my shoulder alignment, and it worked for me.
Set up in your normal PPGS stance. When satisfied you are all set, without changing anything in your set up, raise your lead arm to shoulder height. Then without moving anything else turn your head only far enough to see where the forefinger of your lead hand is pointed [ It showed me I was aimed too far left with my shoulder]. Now return to your PPGS set up position. Now this time, take your rear hand off the club, take it up to the top of the Backward Up Swing position and swing it down gently across your body until it points forward. It will point AT the target, which is parallel to the toe/knees/hips and shoulder line. Note: this is a static drill and not meant to simulate the swing,ie, shoulders, chest etc stay facing the ball position.
Hope this helps. DH

Shoulder Alignment

Randy,

DH has given you some excellent ideas. After following Surges explanations many times both on his lesson videos (the Ultimate Alignment Video is the best) and on so many daily alignment lessons, a few things became clear to me. One is that fundamentally our shoulders get out of alignment because the lower body is not parallel left (for a righty) to start with. Most aim much too far right of target with their foot alignment and when they take a final look at the target which is way left visually we automatically and unconsciously open our shoulders left and toward the target. This is what Surge called X'ed out some 4 years ago in a daily. Again this is when our shoulders are open left and our feet are aimed right. Adding to this tendency is the tendency of some to have the right arm too high at set up, not down and under as it should be. When in the proper set up- back arm lower and under and back we are aided in not being X'ed out. Surge used to refer to this as correct back arm position as FAD (forward arm dominant) and since has labeled it as the Master Set Up Position.

Here are a couple of articles that may help.

https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/bad-fad-x%E2%80%99ed-out-factor-alignment

https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/start-your-swing-master-setup-position

https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/vertical-alignment-position

Additionally. Derek Hardy and Dave Seeman made one of the most helpful videos about alignment. Derek's approach can help us with the shoulders and everything else to be square and parallel left.

https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/dave-seeman-derek-hardy-alignment

Again the best recommendation I can give you is to buy and study the Ultimate Alignment Video available here in 'Surges shop'.

Tips or drills?
Do you carry alignment rods with you. While practicing and while playing they can really assist in checking and practicing correct alignment. If you consistently get yourself parallel left you will make the aligning of your shoulders much easier. Do you have a trusted golf partner or friend who can check your shoulders and chest to see if you are square and correctly aligned from head to toe consistently?

Randy and DH. I just found the video DH was talking about!!!!
Here it is:)

T.A.T.
https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/ultimate-target-alignment-test-address

Aw, Jeez

When will people stop complaining about the dailies. The Surge is giving away (that's "free," Bubba) gold here and people complain. I get so much from the dailies I bought the manual and videos out of gratitude and only later realized how good they were.

Single plane swing

I have played golf for 75 years this year and yes my back and body suffers from the swing plane theories of the last few years. I played for years with the old swing of many years ago and was a low handicap of 3 and played to a 5-6 during my working years

Please read Jim Hardy's book the "Plane Truth for golfers" and you will understand more. His comments are very true that the the SINGLE PLANE swing is not for most older folks because they do not have the flexibility. He also covers the fact the vertical swing is usually better in this situation. I was at the point where I just about had to give up golf because of the many injuries to my body caused by the rotational swings that became popular some years ago. As Surge says: "look at Tiger and some of the other pros with serious injuries" in the 30's. I quit looking for the "Holy Grail" when I found Surge-I read his Foundations manual and can usually get out of problems as I keep wanting to fall back to a swing plane that is ingrained over too many years. Good luck to all of you!!

Lively commenting

Have really enjoyed the lively commenting by all lately. Always sure their are hundreds more golfers out there reading and likely mostly agreeing with Surge and our back and forth's.

Wanted to briefly share some thoughts on another fair round I had and how it ties in to what many have said, that is that they feel with the PPGS they can easily find their way back to good swings and good play when they hit the occasional poor shot or bad hole. As R2,DH and others say, just get back to basics. Truly one of Surges greatest reminders is in rule #5 "So what,who cares, set up and hit the next one right". Often when I get off track it is as though it has once again become a 'secret' hat I must re-dicover! lol:)

Yesterday morning my 9 holes before 8am started out just a bit shaky with a bogie, par, bogie. The 3rd hole bogie was potentially the disturbing one as I pull topped my pw left and short of this 100 yard hole. Had a tough up and down which turned into a 4:( No matter, apply rule 5 and move on. I didn't. let it derail me as I parred the following hole and then a really happy birdie happened on my 5th hole. Good drive down the left side left me 123 yards (by laser) but against a one club breeze. Knew my normal 8 iron flies about 135 so with the in my face breeze and a normal 3/4 swing it may be perfect. Never left the flag as it did everything but hit it and go in stopping pin high 2 feet. Tap in! Now only +1. Parred the next, a par five and then on my 7th hole I hit a long push just behind a huge old tree. It landed on a tuft of crab grass on the original paved cart path (some 75 years old now) and I had a narrow gap that would require a low running hook of 140 yards to the green. Hooded it off my back foot with my weight on the front foot (PLHL) and hit a good recovery shot just short left of the greens edge. Ran my chip past about 10 feet above the hole and missed my putt settling for a bogie:( Could have been worse, move on... #5. On the 195 yard par 3 I hit one of the longest, prettiest high hooks with my 5 wood that I have ever produced! Left me 75 yards left of the green at the end of the driving range. Oh boy. Hit a nice little gap wedge nice and high that landed in the middle of the green and left a slippery down hill 45 footer which I missed but made the 4. Now 3 over with the 9th to go. Felt calm and set up then hit one of my best drives of the day long and straight. Flew over the fairway bunker rolled an additional 35 yards. 145 left but all carry. I love my 7 iron and set up to hit it over the biggest bunker on any course in town. It guards the right half of the green as it's face raises high and looks like the top of a giant bald mans head. No matter as I knew I could air mail my 7 145 with little roll out. It took off high and just a bit right of the flag but it held it's line. Came down just over the flag and I guessed it to be safe and likely on the back right of the Hill yet on the green. As I climbed the greens fringe to the top of mount baldy their it was, safe and pretty leaving me a 30 foot sllght right to left down hill putt. The flag was perched on top but just short of the steep down hill slide to the front of the lower green some 50 feet. Hit this one too firm and I would have a forty footer uphill left. Too soft and I would still have a down hiller left. Ah, came off sweetly and rolled to two feet for a satisfying par and a 3 over 39. Always happy to get 39 and went to work that morning a happy boy.

So I am reminded that a well played hole, and a well struck shot or two is always waiting for us if we are not derailed and remember rule #5.

Truth

Ain't that the truth. Both of my last two rounds had a lot of ugly in the middle, but enough good shots, particularly a good final hole, to keep me playing. :)

back pain

Don, I would like to know if the Vertical Swing will help mid back pain. Most golf related back pain is in the lower back. My problem is a disc bulge in the T9 area. I have tried the "Swing like Moe Norman" method that claims freedom from back pain as a benefit. It has not worked for me. Do you think your swing method will help me? Thanks Larogs

Difficult

It's really difficult to say whether or not Surge's swing would reduce your back pain. He's not a medical doctor and can't promise you that your pain will go away if you switch to this swing, though in general it is a less stressful swing on the body because it requires less twisting and turning. You really need to see a chiropractor or other specialist who knows your particular issue and can work with you on it.

That said, moving your arms more and your back less should be less stressful on all your vertebrae, I would think.

Natural Golf Swing

As Don says the "Natural Golf" swing is far from natural. There is a possibility that your back pain will diminish or disappear by adopting the Peak Performance Golf Swing (PPGS).
If your current swing contains significant lateral bending or "crunching" that will certainly antagonize the spine where you mentioned and could also have caused the issue. The reverse "C" finish which requires rotation and hyper extension of the spine at the same time is especially dangerous. I agree with the gentleman who suggested a medical opinion and I will also suggest a fitness regimen for enhanced results.

As for Moe Norman's swing the wide stance makes it impossible to finish in anything close to a T finish. As a sports fitness consultant I have maintained for years that athletic injuries occur most often on the deceleration phase of a movement as the body tried to safely dissipate powerful forces necessary to complete the movement. There is no efficient way to dissipate energy in Moe's swing.

Don just called me from Detroit while writing this and he added that since you reach so far for the ball in Moe's swing that you can not finish properly and would fall on your face if you tried to pull up into a body friendly finish. Mike Bartholomew, a certified PPGS instructor, was a Natural Golf instructor for several years and he says that it was not body friendly especially when compared to the Surge swing.

X-Factor and PPGS

Surge, I was thinking of something, while watching this video, that you mentioned at the golf school here in Dallas, I think. You talked about the X-Factor people and measuring the difference between hip turn and shoulder turn as the amount of stored power for the swing. To me, that's where the PPGS makes the most sense. If you want the optimal control, like when you're pitching out of a bunker or such, even rotational coaches teach to maintain your lower body as still as possible. If the optimal power, you want to create as much difference between the turn of your hips and the turn of your shoulders--so why would you want to turn your hips any more than necessary? Keep the stable base for control and get the shoulders turned to create power, and you end up with a PPGS swing. Rotational instructors create a bigger shoulder turn by allowing the hips to turn, but that reduces control and doesn't add any power--if power is the difference between hip turn and shoulder turn. By their own logic, PPGS should be the clearest and most obvious choice for everyone.

X-Factor

The X-Factor (a term invented by Jim Maclean) DOES maintain that the less hip turn the better. This, of course, results in more stress on the back the more the shoulders are turned in relation to the hips, a condition which is supposed to produce more power, (again, according to Jim Maclean). He measured touring pros to get the evidence for his claim.

There are many players on tour who agree, as you can see by their swings. Almost all of them are flat-bellies just out of the crib, high school, or college, and most are extremely fit.

Sam Snead never restricted his hip turn. Ben Hogan did, but he also restricted his backswing. Neither one could explain all that adequately what they did or why they did it, but both played the game better than Jim Maclean. You picks your poison, and you takes your chances.

Where you can go wrong

It is just as important to know where you can go wrong as you transition to PPSGS.

Thanks

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The Fight Against Rotational Swing Theories

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