Because we use a limited turn swing, over rotating can play havoc on your results. Ian Doherty has been using the Peak Performance Golf Swing for over 2 years, and he recently came to realize that his struggles with his longer clubs were due to over rotating.
So, today I'm going to briefly explain what can happen to the rest of your swing as a result of over rotation in the backswing. Here's what Ian posted:
Hi Don,
I have been using your PPGS for over 2 years now and have had a lot of problems with the longer clubs with my handicap moving out to 12. A lot of my problems were severe draws or hooks, and everything else in between. I have been searching for over a year to remedy this problem. I have been looking at videos of yours over and over and I think my main problem was over rotation of the arms in the backswing. My club was toe up as opposed to yours, which looks like the same angle as your spine as you are bent over the ball. Am I correct in this or is there more sinister things going on in my golf swing?
Thanks from Ireland,
Ian Doherty
This was a very good observation by Ian. I'm going to discuss the correlation between rotation and spine angle, as it's an important aspect that I believe gets overlooked.
Keep it vertical!
The Surge
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Comments
wow the light bulb is on
Thanks, Don this now makes a lot sense, I was doing exactly what I shouldn't do, trying to have the toe pointing straight up. That explains why at times I was pull hooking my shots.for me this a great daily video tip.
Pete
same boat different rower
Pete--what you said. Wow--same problemo with this piker. I was under the impression for all these years that the club was turned to vertical at the catchers mitt---I'm so embarrassed.
Our city Senior Championship starts tomorrow and I hope I can make the correction for the whole round. The favored golfer regularly shoots at or near par so it's most likely a battle for 2nd place (this guy wins the club championship and has won the regular city championship ten times) unless I can trip him somehow and cause a debilitating injury (JUST KIDDING!). Did beat him one round last year, however.
Large Boat
Ray, I hope it's a large boat because I too have been over rotating and hitting pulls with my irons and hybrids. Thinking about it, I realized I had no problems whenever I hit half shot with my irons because the toe never got to fully vertical. It all makes sense now. Hand me an oar and I'll help you row. ;0)
Good luck tomorrow.
Large Boat?
Lynn42,
Long time no see ; - ) Go to Surge's "How to take shallow divots" from a few days ago. I left a link about an hour or so ago. It is about "Torture Drill", which I incorporated into my PPGS set up and swing routine. I use it as a warm up drill and it stopped me over rotating, and yesterday I was hitting balls better than I ever have. It is now part of my PPGS swing.It will cure your pulls in no time at all.
Check it out-It sure as heck works for me.
DH
Torture Drill
Just had a look, DH. Looks a lot my half swings that I mentioned. The face almost looks a bit shut when I do it, but it's in line with my spine angle as Surge suggests. Ball contact is much more solid. My pea brain should have figured this out long ago, but sometimes us old dogs need help learning new tricks...lol.
Torture Drill
Lynn,
Lol....don't I know that feeling ; - ) When I saw the first video where he is using an iron, it didn't really resonate with me. Underneath it was the last one I posted the link for, the one where he is using the driver. Now Surge has advocated using the club in reverse to guage the point of the 'swoosh' in the FUS. I thought one of my problems was lack of clubhead speed through and beyond impact. Noting the 'swoosh' achieved during the demonstration, I thought I would at least give it a whirl! It didn't take me long to increase my clubhead speed with first club I used. Using it for real on the course, it met all my expectations. I still use the PPGS swing set up, etc, The only difference for me is, I swing more like a PPGS swinger, with more clubhead speed, but 'under control'. It stopped me trying to 'kill the ball', swinging over the top, and rotating around during the FUS! That will do me fine. Interpretation of what we read and see, is the key for me. Sometimes our 'pea brains' don't pick up the message. Then when put a different way, we do figure it out. This for me was one such case. This old dog did learn a new trick ; - ) DH
Torture Drill
Am I mistaken, or isn't this the same idea Steve Smith was talking about a couple of months ago. I distinctly remember him putting up a video of himself hitting balls into his net by using half swings from the waist high position, in fact I was so interested in this idea I used it for awhile as part of my daily warm up. Mike
Half backswing drill
Different thing. I was skipping the first quarter of the back swing, but completing the back swing from that point (like a normal shot).
In the torture drill you only swing forward from where I was starting the back swing.
Half backswing drill
Thanks for the quick reply, when I originally watched your video, I must have misunderstood your concept, because I was going forward from the halfback position, and not back to the top. I also want to tell you that everytime I see an impact photo of a golfer from behind, I look for the line formed by the right arm and the shaft to see if they are aligned. I always thought that was a very astute observation by you. Mike
LBM - Light bulb moment
I'm going to try this in the morning because I've been doing the same thing. Definitely a light bulb moment. Especially to over rotating of the arms part. It makes so much sense now.
Shorten backswing & that drill
The link to that torture drill is a great tool for us here in PPGS. I tried it with my Swingrite in the house last nite, on tile where I have super alignment via the tile lines (hehe), and I am clicking down in the ball area nearly as consistent as my fuller swing.
What really hit home watching that drill over on the Youtube was it reminded me of my time back in the Academy with Don & Dave Seeman. Dave kept harping on us lined up on the range to try it shorter. Shorter again, etc. He was essentially forcing us into this lesser backswing for getting us more square into the ball than possible with any flaws intro'd via our longer swings. I gotta keep that one around, I can actually play that way for awhile if I begin to unravel out on a course.
Degree Driver
Hi Don;
I am 76 years young and would like to know what degree driver you would recommend for older players. I am a lefty and using a 10.5 degree driver. I have tried just about everything I know to stop slicing my drives and to get more distance. Do you have any suggestions.
Thanks;
Jerome Reimer SR
Club fitter
There are a number of things to look at when finding the right loft for a driver, like clubhead speed & swing dynamics. There are also any number of reasons for slicing your ball. I would suggest looking for a club fitter near you , by going to the top of this page & go on certified professionals. Then check out the certified fitters to find one near you. I think you will find that a properly fitted driver is your best long term solution
Defer to Doc
Jerome,
You may enjoy and get some good GENERAL information about your driver needs by Going to the top right of this page and putting in the word driver. There in the archives both Surge and Lynn "Doc: Griffin -Surges top fitter, have done several articles and video dailies on the subject. It is not likely that Surge will directly answer your question. Especially since being 76 and a slicer of the ball tells him (us) very little about you and your needs.
Secondly I highly recommend getting a long distance fitting for a driver through Lynn Griffin and his web site. There you will fill out a list of detailed questions for a driver fitting. Several of the Surge Nation have had a driver built for them by Doc and rave about the quality and results. I will give you his link below. There you can find info and a way to get the driver that will best work for you.
http://www.thegolfstop.net/index.html
Dick Lee
Just wanted to let the Surge Nation know I have communicated with Dick recently and he is doing okay. He has been super busy with work and life. I let him know many have asked about him including Tina B. and were thinking about him. He said he hopes to stop by the blog soon and ask me to pass along a hello to all.
Dick
Thanks,Robert. Glad to hear Dick is doing ok.
Dick Lee
Robert,
Many thanks for the update on Dick. He is often in my thoughts. I was going on the premise that, no news is good news. That seems to be the case with him being super busy in all things. That is the measure of the man. Sorely missed by many Surgites. Reminds me of the song I watched on Youtube a wee while ago: "Donald where's yer trousers" sung by Andy Stewart. Perfect for our Cowboy in a kilt, Dick Lee.
Keep on hitting that 3wood long and straight, consistently Robert.
DH in the wet : - ) boohoo ; - ) Hope springs eternal.
Dick Lee
Thanks for the update on Dick.
PGA Championship
FYI
For those who are interested (and have the schedule to watch) here is the coverage for the PGA major starting in the morning.
Network tv coverage -Thursday TNT 1pm-7pm eastern time
-the rest of the tv coverage
http://www.pga.com/pgachampionship/
Tiger's group on PC
http://www.pga.com/pgachampionship/live/2013-pga-championship-live-video/?pga_iid=13_PGA_Champ_Live_290x73
Prediction; Tiger finally wins another major by 3 strokes. Second Henrik Stensen, third Phil the thrill.
Torture Drill? - NOT!
I have used the "torture" drill quite a bit for months, but did something new with it today that I found extremely useful. I started off exactly as Barton described. However, instead of going directly to my full 3/4 swing, I just gradually lengthened my swing. By the time I got to having the club vertical (both down-the-line and face-on), I was hitting almost perfect shots. When I started going past vertical (as viewed face-on), I began to lose distance and accuracy). I knew I had a problem with over-swinging, but had not realized that, for me, over-swinging meant going past vertical (club standing straight up in both directions).
I have found the true top of the BUS, for me, and am now not entering the realm of diminishing returns. At the vertical-vertical position, I maintain my balance, the bump is virtually perfect, and my club head speed is maximum. My dispersion, normally about 20* left and right, is down to about 7* left and 3* right. My normal distance with my 8-iron of 35 yards is now about 50*, with some even longer. I haven't hit that far in over 25 years.
Along with everything else Surge teaches, I think each of us needs to find the optimum point to stop at the top of the BUS. Not everyone needs to try to match Surge's BUS of 1 o'clock or even 2 o'clock. So, use the "torture" drill, gradually lengthening your back-swing from parallel to the ground to the point where you start losing distance; that is your optimum top of the BUS.
Hope this helps someone. Keep it vertical and enjoy "the game."
35 to 50?
Kevin, did you mean was 135 yards and now 150 yards for your 8 iron?
Any how, i like your logic and routine. It is amazing to me how far we can hit it with 3/4's or less back swing. I need at least 3/4's to maintain the right tempo. 1/2 shots are normally for special situations like shots under 60 yards or less or knock downs. Having said that I agree that for most of us and certainly myself, 3/4's is plenty and accuracy is my priority. Tidy dispersion you have. Very nice.
Poor back nine for Tiger this morning. There looks to be lots of guys that will be -3 to -5 by days end. This was the perfect day for scoring. +1 puts him in a bad way. We'll see. i was up at 5am to watch Tiger's group. Watching Phil's group now. Rory's off to a good start. Good to see.
Head Space
Yeah, Robert, it was supposed to be 135 yards and 150 yards with the 8-iron. I have a habit of leaving off the "100" and just using the remainder (e.g. 35 instead of 135) in those instances where it makes sense. You caught it, but I'm sure others may not have. I need to be more careful:-<
Dick Lee
Hi Robert,
Thanks for the update. Glad he is ok! Thank goodness there hasn't been much need for troll swatting lately :)
Sure thing
He did mention he hopes to stop by and comment soon. We all hope it's soon as he does add so much and is a lovable character.Nobody swats 'em better for a certainty. he comes from such a strong place of integrity and love of God and country and what is right.