There's a few ways to cut strokes off your game. One of them is eliminating multiple chips on the same hole. Getting it up and down is critical to posting lower scores, but you've got to know what each shot calls for.
Jim Barletta brought up the point that every shot around the green usually gets categorized as a chip shot. However, that's a generalization because there's many different ways in which you can play multiple shots. Flop shots, pitch shots, and chip shots are all different. All can be effective, as long as the shot you're faced with requires it.
Surge,
It's interesting that many golfers (and even many golf commentators) call every short shot a "chip." Thus, they make no distinction for the lofted shot which I've always understood to be a "pitch." Perhaps the greatest exponent of your idea that the swing is always the same was Ken Venturi who, at least 25 yrs ago in his "Encyclopedia of Golf," advocated the same swing but with different clubs depending on the length of the chip shot.
Jim Barletta (age 86, 18 handicap "hacker")
I'm going to hit a whole bunch of different short game shots in today's video. I'll even hit some of them over the net just to highlight the differences in each type of shot. After watching, head out to your own backyard and give a few of these shots a try. Then, implement them into your game and watch your scores begin to fall!
Keep it vertical!
The Surge
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Comments
Chipping and Pitching
A good lesson of the day Surge. Like it a lot. Thanks to Jim Barletta for bringing the subject up : - ) I hope that I am an 18hcp at 86! Not bad at all.
It irks me to hear overpaid commetators calling pitches chips etc! If they don't know the difference and don't pass that information on to viewers, they should perhaps commentate on some other sport ; - )
Lofting and de-lofting the clubs Surge uses, his 7iron and wedges today was a great demonstration of what we can achieve, with a little more use of our brains.Hahaha. For quite some time now when practicing, I chip with every club in the bag, from LW to Driver. It is fun and challenging. On the course on our recent last outing, I hit the pin from just off the green with my 3W! I have even putted with driver to very good effect.
Tomorrow, all being well we will have a trip to the course and continue to "Just do it right"~! Hit them longer, straighter and more consistently where ever you are. It is the PPGS way.
Canadian Open final round promises to be a battle royal ; - ) May the best lady win on the day.
DH
Chipping
Surge, like you I de-loft my cubs by accentuating a hands forward position,
gives me great accuracy around the greens. Funny thing though I mainly use 3 wedges GW,60* & 64* and can travel any length of green with these three.
Yesterday I was about 5M off the green had to get over a lump in front of me, then travel about 20M downhill to the pin, got within a metre and sunk the putt. I have a very firm grip with each and feel that I'm punching the ball, not hitting it, I think that's the reason I can get a GW to run any length, I get tremendous satisfaction by consistently doing this. NOW ABOUT THE LONG GAME, I NEED YOU TO COME DOWN UNDER AND DO A SCHOOL IN OZ,LOL.
School in Oz
I wholeheartedly support the comment by NeilofOZ, How about coming to Perth Western Australia. I would love a session with the Surge.
Land of OZ
Kasperth, I know he's coming, but when, bit like JC2 LOL and it'll be on the east coast not Perth ( nobody knows Perth ) hope to see you when he comes.
Off topic- An easy way to adjust the grip strength.
My course is definitely not a slicer's golf course. Left is almost always a better miss than right. On a lot of holes the tee boxes are right of center and close to trees on the right side. I love Surge's upright swing for any shots from the fairway because it virtually eliminates left side misses.
Driving the ball , however, is an other issue. I hit a lot of nice long draws with my more aggressive version of the Surge Swing but can only risk this maximum distance shot on a few wide open holes.
One of the things that I've been trying lately, to eliminate the right side is strengthening my grip a very small amount. I've tried the conventional way of adjusting the grip by changing the number of knuckles showing but the problem is that the grip change feels very awkward. Shawn Clement says that a change of one knuckle showing equates to about a 30 degree face angle change. I was looking for a lot less than that.
I've started using a method for grip adjustment that I've heard of before somewhere. I just place the club on the ground in front of me and close the face slightly before gripping with the right hand and then the left. While walking into the shot I turn both wrists slightly to the right to square the club face and address the ball. The grip has been changed only a few degrees and feels the same to me. As long as I slow my transition a bit to avoid coming over the top the ball goes very straight with no leakage right.
I can now safely use the driver on all the holes with trouble near right where I was previously forced to hit a shorter club for safety. It also helps with trouble right approach shots.
I know the argument for having a good neutral grip and never changing it and it may be just a quick fix, but this is a very small tweak and for now, seems to work. I'd be very interested in any Surgite comments.
Face angle
I do the same thing (and I always have). I close or open the face angle for either direction that I just can't afford to miss on any shot.
Almost all of the OB holes at the course I play have the OB on the right. I could rotate my hands slightly but it feels more comfortable and more relaxed to leave them more neutral.
To me it's nuts to keep having the same miss that gets you in trouble without tweaking the grip or face angle (which is actually the same thing at impact).
chipping n pitching
Mr. up and down could have been my Fathers nick name as he was a master of the scrambling par or birdie. Chip it close and tap it in is my mantra. My wife has gotten so good at the chip and putt part of the game that she would rather be off the green than on with a 40 foot putt. We are working on our putting and that seems to be the important part of the equation because a good pitch/chip seems worthless if we don't make the putt. I find myself using a 9 iron when green side more often lately. This of course is on a shot that has no bunker or other obstacle to clear. It gives me just the right amount of loft and run out in most cases. Some times I'll use the 8 when just off the green and run it too far by. Then a pw will check up too much. 9 is just right. DH you are wise learning to hit every club from green side. I have gotten fairly consistent with one (9).
I know Surge is getting ready for a big trip to Holland and Germany. Growing groups of Surgites over there. Hope he makes it down to Oz and NZ. I'm sure he would get a big turn out.
Chipping Better Than Putting
Robert, sounds like your wife and I are very similar, likewise I'd rather be chipping the ball just off the green for a 40footer, than be putting just inside the fringe, iv'e even chipped while on the green on a super long putt.
I know Surge is coming down under, there was some talk this November, but
that's just around the corner and I can't see things being organised in this short time and it would make things difficult to organise now, from both sides. Maybe next year.
Chipping on the green
Neil, that's so funny, my wife said she may give that a go soon!!
chip shot lesson
can u please either turn the camera so we can see the flight of the shot or more of the net, or redo this video on a real golf course.! nice try surge!
Chip shot
Muff, Surge is a one man operator for the camera and setup. Also he does not have the room to rearrange the camera for a down the line ball flight shot. He's almost 10 miles away from his golf club. I am satisfied and tickled to death that he does these dailies for free. If you want to see his down the line chip and pitch shots , buy his shots around green video.
Hal
Slightly Stronger Grip
My favorite 9 hole course here in Northern California is Black Oak. This course turns left on all but 2 holes. If you can draw the ball, you are one happy camper. My draw is a work in progress.
At address, my club indeed appears shut. The "slightly stronger grip" lesson came from a great local PGA senior player/instructor. I understand the slightly shut club face at address. Hopefully the club returns through the ball in such a way that a draw is imparted.
(Edits 8/26- thx Robert for the feedback. Your notes and experience are quite helpful.)
We spent close to one hour (lesson) focusing on that one element of the grip, and it was a game changer for me. It is not to be underestimated.
draw
SG,
Trying to visualize your "slightly strong grip" comment. To draw it he is having you come through squarely or with the club face slightly shut or square? I have been working on the draw too and as Surge teaches I am addressing the ball with the club face slightly shut (depending on how much I want the ball to hook) and then with the ball slightly further back in my stance (which encourages a from the inside swing) I also stand slightly further from the ball (which encourages a slightly flatter swing) and then I do my best to keep my hands and wrist firm and maintain the closed face angle throughout the swing, especially through impact. Consistency of course is the goal. It is such a beautiful thing when it comes off as planned. The other day I had about 200 yards left on the par 5 9th after a good drive that finished on the left edge of the fairway with a little tree positioned just perfectly on my line. I could be practical and play out to the right with a 100 yard lay up or ...........
of course I had an "opportunity" to pull off the draw/hook. Taking my 5 iron I toed it in and aimed my feet and body right of the tree and the club face at the hole. It came off super and started at the right side of the green and then turned and turned dropping and rolling just in front of the middle bunker and then passed just by the front left of the green about 5 feet off and 25 feet from the hole. Chipped it close and tapped in the birdie. Fun stuff when it goes correctly.
draw
Hi Robert,
Interesting draw news with your 5iron. Love my 5HL iron at the moment. Have never tried a draw with it. Following your result, perhaps I will give it a try tomorrow all being well.
Watched the last round of the Barclay's~! An Aussie winner ; - ) and the LPGA Canadian Open, a Kiwi winner ; - ) Ho! hum. Chipping with anything is good. Now working on putting distances. Accuracy not a problem,only distances. My Heath Robinson 'arrow' will be given a good work out tomorrow on the course. Keep hitting them more accurately consistently in Vegas.
DH as the sun comes out here : - )
5HL
Hello DH,
I actually have the best results with either the 5 or 6 iron pulling off the draw/hook. Basically just follow Surges directions from his "shaping the ball" video. My latest adventure has been using the 3 wood off the tee largely using it with the draw in order to get sufficient distance. I decided to use it exclusively last time out to really practice it. out of 14 drives I was happy with 8 or 9 of them and the others went straight right (as I was aligned on purpose) rather than draw. Still working on it. I have been putting a contact sticker on the face and I have noticed the misses are slightly toward the heel. Because of the 'gear effect' I get better results if the contact is just slightly on the toe side of the sweet spot. Any how I am determine to have it as a more reliable shot off the tee when needed. Never ending challenge.
We wouldn't have it any other way :)
Congrats to both the man from OZ and the young Kiwi lassy.
Drawing 101 .... An Art Class
Great thoughts, Robert. Clearly I have some descriptions that needed to be tidied up. It's still pretty new to me, working the ball.
True confession- I'm really in Drawing 101. It's early on, but I've experienced enough to know it's a game changer for me, Mr. Slice-o-matic.
Hey, is your 5 the Mizuno JPX hybrid or conventional iron? I've found both my Mizuno (4 and 5) hybrids have been great clubs. My best shots last round were with my 4 hybrid: One was off the tee, small draw and rolled onto the green. The other has a looooong putt, off the green and slight upslope-rolled it up right near the pin.
Same club, 2 completely different shots.
Any thoughts on working the ball with a hybrid vs iron ?
mixed bag
Literally...........
SG, I currently carry the JPX Mizuno only in the 7-pw and gap.:Like these:
http://www.globalgolf.com/product/golfclub/-/sku--1019061-acz/iron-set/mizuno/jpx-800.aspx?gd=3&cdt=3&id=31164029458&utm...
The other irons in my bag are the Adams Redline 4,5,6 and 7 iron. My woods are the Adams speedline 11- the 15 degree 3 woos and the 18 degree 5 wood. My driver is always revolving or evolving to something else lately. Change up on the driver as much for experimentation as for need. Never bored and always tinkering.
Quick explanation on the iron mix. 3 summers ago I was fit by a PPGS fitter in San Francisco. He is a self proclaimed mad scientist as a fitter and hanging out with him for 2 and a half days was an awesome experience and actually stimulated my desire to become a fledgling club fitter. He felt that (at the time) the Redlines (which are hybrids) were the choice for both distance and getting it close to or on target. The irons I had built at the time (from 7-gap) were the Japaneese made forged Vega's
Like these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vega-Rafc02-Irons-/111150590536
Though I still think they are excellent irons I switch out to the Mizuno's about 10 months ago just beacuse. Do like both. Why two 7 irons. As we know not all club heads and their lofts and distances are created equal. In essence my Adams Redlines are 3-6 irons not 4-7 as labeled. Too they just go far! So my Mizuno's are considered my "scoring irons as were my Vega's.
Finally, Leith ( the fitter) introduced me to the super jumbo grips, "Jumbo Max"
Love 'em.
5HL
Hi Robert,
Sounds as though you are having fun and good results with the 3W and drawing the ball. On our last two 20 hole outings, I have had great success with the Driver, 3W and 5W, hitting them straight : - ) Distances not as far as I know they can be, due to the sodden ground,ie, almost dead stop on landing.
That aside, hitting the shortened blonde woods has given me excellent results so far. We were to have gone out today, but cold and wet, boohoo! and a more pressing business appointment trumped that. Tomorrow meant to be better and we are raring to go.
Noted that hitting these smaller headed woods, that I am making contact right on the centre of the clubface. Making beautiful higher trajectory shots with the driver. A real bonus for me.
Chipping? Favoured clubs, the 8iron or the 17deg iron. When I was a rotational swinger and had my first set of 'good' clubs. I could use the wooden Ping 5W off the tee, fairway, from the rough and to an elevated green I could go down the shaft to the metal almost and drop it onto that type of green from 100yds hahaha! In fact the day I dropped to my lowest handicap those many years ago, I had nothing bigger than that 5W in the bag~! Hmmm! Makes one think..... Love all irons from LW/SW/PW/9/8iron for shorter, high shots. No problems with any of them. Too many clubs higher than them can do the same job : - ( 4HL versus 23deg Rescue and the 17deg driving iron for a variety of shots : - ( boohoo! Decisions, decisions all the time decisions heh heh heh! Nice ones to have. We will get there, Surge and his teachings, supported by Doc and the Surgite Nation, have shown us the path. Draw them consistently in Vegas.
DH raring to go in NZ
Mad Scientists
Luv the mad-scientist-club-fitter story.
Going with what brings good results makes sense.
Whatever it takes, whatever the mix, isn't it nice to
have qualified "someone" outside of yourself
who can bring informed, objective feedback?
Hybrid or not to draw
SG,
I failed to address your other question which was thoughts on hybrid or irons to draw with. Actually I think the same physics applies to either. I think you were referring to your hybrid irons-the JPX HD's. Any how I have had successes and failure with both lol!! Actually the Redline hybrid irons are the ones I most often attempt and am successful with drawing the ball. I think many might argue that the forged smaller headed blades would be easiest to work the ball right or left. That may be true but angles and path can effect the ball regardless of the club or club type. The ball doesn't know what club you're using whether hybrid or another type of club head.