Sleep Swinging Doesn't Work for Distance

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 10:00 -- Don Trahan

If you want to increase your distance, your muscles need to be actively engaged. Your grip must be firm and your swing speed should be accelerating through impact. One big misconception I always hear is that you need to swing smooth and easy. But, if you do that, where's your power going to come from?

I recently had a lesson with two of my regulars and a common complaint among both of them was that they don't hit the ball far enough. I asked them to show me a few swings and it was evident that they were doing what I call "sleep swinging." 

Everything else about their swings looked great. They had a good setup position with wide knees outward pressure and they were taking the club back toe up into the catcher's mitt and up the tree. They even had a nice 3/4, vertical backswing. The problem was on their transition to impact and up to the finish position. It just looked really lazy and slow.

I'm going to demonstrate what their swings looked like as opposed to my swing that you see every day at the start of these videos. Can you tell what the difference is?

You've got to go after the ball and actively engage your body during the swing. To be loose and think you need to swing smooth are bad swing thoughts. Find out what your maximum swing speed is and then play 90% of that on most shots. That way you'll gain consistency with your shots and also your feel.

Keep it vertical!

The Surge

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Comments

frozboy@sbcglobal.net's picture

Submitted by frozboy@sbcglob... on

Don, This is probably one of your most important messages to us. There is so much info about the back swing and turn etc. that the follow thru seems to get lost in the shuffle. We hear the work FOLLOW THRU a lot BUT it really needs to be discussed more thoroughly such as you did today as accelerating as you are about to hit the ball and continue this acceleration thru the ball. On one of your earlier videos about a year ago I picked up on the acceleration and it has made a BIG difference in not only my distance but in a better chance of swinging thru the ball and not giving up to the right. I have followed your lessons for years but I had not picked up on this important detail until about a year ago. Thanks for touching on this important swing thought.
Bruce Campbell

JKPassage's picture

Submitted by JKPassage on

Bruce Campbell, Surge and fellow Surgites -- I fully agree about "getting after it" on the swing. There are usually 2 approaches to bettering a swing: (1) start out with slow swings and be sure that you're hitting the ball in the correct direction and progressively build up swing speed, or (2) swing with as much speed as you can muster and worry about ball flight and direction later (which is what Hank Haney advocates).

I do #1 because I found that my swing mechanics got worse the faster I swing the club. I am more apt to come over the top in the hopes are gaining speed. I could hit for distance but every shot was a massive slice. With the PPGS, I have been careful to get the swing mechanics down first and then work on speed. But, even with PPGS, the fastest I can swing, stay in balance, and hit the ball straight (or nearly straight) is about 75mph. That doesn't get me very far off the tee, my friends.

Obviously, I need to see a PPGS instructor.

Dave Everitt's picture

Submitted by Dave Everitt on

We have similar swing speeds, so I understand what you're saying about swinging within yourself to avoid the big misses. One way to practise staying in balance while swinging faster is to take the golf ball out of the equation and do the swoosh drill with something light. Alternating heavy and light can help build up speed.

A couple of recent swing thoughts, have added about 10 % to my swing speed and I can make a more aggressive swing without fearing the results. The first change was a setup one. It involves pulling the right shoulder blade back a few degrees while doing the Master Setup Position so the shoulders are preset slightly closed at address. This was enough to get back the draw that I always had with my former rotational swing. The positions at the top of the swing still fit the Surge swing parameters.

I've always had a problem remembering to raise the right elbow enough while doing the BUS. Being a " Huggy Bear" may work with a rotational swing but means not enough lift with the Surge swing and less swing speed through the ball. A couple of weeks ago I found a swing thought that gets the right elbow high enough without even thinking about it.

The right shoulder blade is actually used as a trigger for one of the more popular rotational swings being promoted on the Web. Thinking of it as the engine of the takeaway is supposed to be a good way to get a consistent move to start the backswing. They talk about moving it down and back while doing a rotational swing. I've had good luck using this move in the past with a rotational swing.

If I instead think about moving the rear shoulder blade back and up to start the BUS it's easy to get a consistent few more inches of lift and accumulate more potential energy at the top of the BUS without going into the "Sacred Burial Ground," if the knees are kept stable.

I do a regular, golf dedicated workout with light weights ,to strengthen the required lifter muscles and they now have a better chance of consistently doing their job of producing more up in the backswing. Bye Bye " Huggy Bear" !!!

barrowcloughr@aol.com's picture

Submitted by barrowcloughr@a... on

its a sad fact but in the end it comes down to natural ability. how fast can you swing and still maintain control? Don sees a lot of what he calls 'sleep swingers' because they have come to understand that they havent got the ability to swing fast and get consistant results, so they ( and me) settle for less distance and more control. its sad but true.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

A while back to show my wife that strength had nothing to do with the fact that she was only hitting her driver about 110 yards I took her driver and held it at the top of the back swing, totally relaxed all of my muscles, and let it fall to the ball. The ball went a little over 150 yards.

Then I told her I was going to do exactly the same thing with my upper body but let my lower body follow the sequence of the weight transfer from the ground up. The ball went a little over 190 yards.

I told her that if I could hit her driver 190 yards using nothing more than the walking around strength we all have in our lower body, timing, and gravity, ANYBODY should be able to do the same thing no matter how weak they are.
(I told her that first 190 yards is totally free and available to anybody).

When any upper body strength at all is added to the same swing the distance jumps as far as your strength can make it jump. Anything over 190 yards you earn.

Dave Everitt's picture

Submitted by Dave Everitt on

These are encouraging words for the speed challenged. You should be able to earn extra distance strengthening your body and developing better timing.

A bigger swing arc also helps with free power. Wide shoulders and long arms can be an advantage when talking about free power. My son has a very languid looking swing but is a big man at 6 feet 7 inches with wide shoulders and long arms. Wherever he swings, it looks like he is using nothing but free power and the ball goes a long way with little apparent effort.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

You can. It's free.

Positive angle of attack. Sweet spot impact. Proper weight distribution and transfer timing.
And minimal sidespin. (Which directly relates to club face/swing path coordination).

Most people fall short on one, or more, or all of those.

resumez@cox.net's picture

Submitted by resumez@cox.net on

Steve;
Now you have hit my major problem -- the proper weight transfer. With a weak forward ankle, I can only make about 2/3 to 3/4 of proper weight transfer to the forward foot. Hence, 190 yds drive is about my maximum driver distance.
The other factors you mentioned lead to about 3 or 4 drives a round that are in the 150- 160 range, so the average becomes something like 165.
Try your experiment with about 2/3 of your normal weight shift and see what happens. I am curious to know!

Amos

Dave Everitt's picture

Submitted by Dave Everitt on

You may have already tried an ankle brace on your forward ankle. If you haven't , here is my experience with bad ankles. In the past, on separate occasions, I've torn the inner ankle tendons of both feet while playing golf. The inner ankle tendons are smaller and take a lot longer to heal than the outer ankle ones. For the last seven years I haven't played a single round of golf without having braces on both ankles. I've had good luck with ASO and EVO ankle braces that lace up and have velcro support straps. No re injuries so far, "knock on wood." The braces do limit ankle mobility a bit but playing without fear trumps that. They really help on downhill lies where that forward ankle takes a lot of stress. I think that the updated version of the original ASO brace the "EVO" is worth the extra few dollars.

resumez@cox.net's picture

Submitted by resumez@cox.net on

Anyone remember that old tv show? _ That Was The Week That Was

Anyway, it was the end of our Summer season here -- course closed for 2 weeks for overseeding. Part of the preparation is too mow the fairways very close - almost bare in fact. This leads to much more roll on the drives - but you better be rolling STRAIGHT down the fairways!
Played 3 times - Tuesday Wednesday and Friday
Tuesday scored 42+42 = 84
Wednesday shot 42+39 = 81
Friday was 40+40 =80
Major reasons for the differences -- Tuesday I only hit 9 or 14 fairways, and 4 bunkers with 0 sandies
Wednesday - 11 fairways, 4 bunkers with 2 sandies -- and 5 GIR too
Friday - all 14 fairways, 0 bunkers, 4 GIR
The most consistent thing was 10 one putt greens and 0 three putts on each rounds.

This all led to current handicap of 13 -- down from a "high" of 22 in late February when the grass was changing from winter grass to Bermuda - and chipping/putting was very inconsistent to say the least!

Occasionally we set our goals too low -- I was trying to get my handicap down to 15 by Summer's end!! But never fear, it will go back up a few points with mix of grasses and cooler weather arriving.

Keep hitting them STRAIGHT and LONG

Amos

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Just the opposite around here Amos. Nobody over-seeds so after Labor Day they let the grass grow longer and "harden it off" with potash.

Shots against the grain become VERY inconsistent for any level player and especially those of us with a shallow angle of attack. Shorter shots around the greens are affected most and using the bounce of the club to any extent at all is almost impossible.

When I start to struggle at this time of year I have to completely change my approach to the short game and only try to use the bounce and/or use an open club face when it's apparent with a practice swing that the shot is with the grain.

A couple of days ago I told my playing partner that I wasn't going to make that mistake again this year but evidently I lied because the very next hole I had a shot where the only way to get it close was a flop shot and I blew it because of the grain. What it comes down to at this time of the year (and through the winter) is that I have to quit being greedy and use at least a PW even on shots that I know are going to leave me a long putt.

I did have a chip in for eagle yesterday and another one the only came up a couple of inches short. Both came on smarter low chips with a PW but on both I had some green to work with.

Of course another side effect of the longer grass is that there is no roll at all on tee shots. I hit one as far as I could hit it yesterday and the ball only took one small hop and no roll. Luckily I'm pretty good at adjusting my angle of attack and hitting a higher ball that has a lot of carry, but even with that about 270 to 280 yards is the best I can hope for unless there's a helping wind.

What it all means in a nutshell is that I can always expect to shoot a few strokes higher in the fall, winter, and early spring than in the summer.

And I have to use my brain more than my ability around the greens.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Edit

JohnBubolz's picture

Submitted by JohnBubolz on

Don, I'm not a "sleep swinger" but rather accelerate fast on my follow-through. But ... as a result I often come up out of the shot to quickly, raising my head too soon. This results in thin shots or shanks. So, Don, please give me, and those like me, a tip or two on how to avoid coming up too soon.

An avid PPGS student

baiktjcarb@aol.com's picture

Submitted by baiktjcarb@aol.com on

Surge, we had a Titliest ball fitting 2 weeks ago at the club. They had us hit sand wedges/6 irons/drivers. I learned 2 things. According to them, for any given swing speed, say 90mph, all balls made by Titleist from the Solo to Pro VI will go within 4-5 yards of each other. So pick your ball type not on distance but feel and short game.
Secondly, and most important for me, is a question/issue I have not seen you address, at least in a long time. The Trackman result of my Driver was 95mph, but to much spin and a club attack angle of down 5 degrees, instead of up 5 degrees. How can I change this attack angle to hit higher balls and therefore get more distance. Thanks Tom Carbone

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Tom,
There are number of factors that contribute to an angle of attack which is too steep. Here are some videos on the subject. BTW, If you would like Surge to cover it as a daily again, you are best off sending it in to customer service as a question.

https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/doc-griffin-explains-hitting-ball

https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/hitting-down-your-driver-slice

baiktjcarb@aol.com's picture

Submitted by baiktjcarb@aol.com on

Robert, I reviewed the videos you selected--appreciate your video filing system. They helped. I had sent a reply to Don but got an error message--so I thought it did not go thru. But I did get a reply from Don, and his answer was also great and helpful. Thanks again. Tom

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Tom,
I'm glad my references helped you. Very cool that Surge gave you some help.
As for my 'filing system'. I can take no credit. It is Don's company and their filing system. Any one can access it at any time 24 hours a day world wide. It is the 1000's of videos and teaching dailes that Surge has saved in the archives. His tech team has it organized so that any and every subject and golf question can be zoomed in on in a matter of seconds. Really. unlimited hours of free study and reviewing are available. All any Surgite needs to do is put a word or phrase in the little blank box in the above, right corner. It's just under the log in words. It's really kind of like having our own golf google bar where we can type in a word or words and sometimes pages of great lessons and info come up. I am guilty of sometimes spending an hour or longer pouring over several aspects of one topic. Keep in mind, Surge has covered many of the same subjects many times over. Often he will add addition light or say it in such a way that gives us those light bulb moments.
An example of how to use it would be to put in the word
putting. Nearly every discussion we have ever had about putting will come up. It looks like this

https://www.swingsurgeon.com/search/node/putting

Looking at the above entry you'll see that there 9 pages of topics covering putting.9! At 10 per page x 9 that is like 90 times just the subject of putting has been discussed.

What if you want to be more specific? Well an example would be that we have talked several times recently about the L2 putter. Maybe you'd like to review all that has been discussed about the L2. Well here it is just by putting in L2 putter.

https://www.swingsurgeon.com/search/node/L2%20putter

Notice that even though it has never been specifically covered by Surge you can still track it down by OUR discussions of it! How cool is that?

I wish everyone who reads this web site and watches the dailies and even comments would fully appreciate and use these amazing archives. There is such a wealth of golf knowledge available FOR FREE that all that is needed is our curiosity and some time investment. So, video filing system? Hell yes and it has all been done for us.
Thanks to Tom, Brady, Kim, Debbie and all of Surge's team! Oh and don't forget Don Trahan has spent untold 1000's of hours teaching and doing nearly all of his own video taping and typing for our golf games and now it's all saved for our use. My hope is that some day many many years from now all of this invaluable golf library will be saved and available for generations of golfers to come. Will it still be free then? Hmmmnnn......... likely not. But is now. Are we using it well?

Dragonhead's picture

Submitted by Dragonhead on

B*gger! Sleeping while opening emails doesn't work either~! Checking e-mail the other day I thought I had perhaps deleted a PPGS video. Had been up for hours watching golf all weekend and while deleting 'junk' I obviously now know I did indeed delet todays video!!! You tube was acting up around the same time. On a whim, I went to the site through youtube, and Lo! and Behold! the Sleep Swinging video I had not seen : - ( dumbkof me!
The good news is that I was already working on this very problem, in effect, 'hitting like a girl'!!! The culprit identified as pathetically poor weight transference from the rear foot to the front foot!!! Since rectified thankfully. Now have to wait patiently for weather not resembling the weekend weather in Ohio last weekend [plus 110kph winds expected later today with heavy rain ]. Roll on Summer hahaha!
Much happier with my swing. Seeing Surge's swing comparison confirmed being on the right track. Recently when 'Just doing it right' on the course, the results have been self-evident, with better distance and consistent accuracy. Now all that is needed is more practice and patience.
Thankyou Surge for another pearl of wisdom. DH

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

DH,
Hope your well in oft stormy NZ. We have cooled off considerably here in the high desert and it looks like wind and rain is on the way today. No matter, we will likely play 18 this afternoon anyway unless lightning stops our plans.
Weight shift, so important eh? I find that when I don't have a sufficient shift it started by not pre-loading right enough in the set up. Swing up and toward the target from there almost makes the finishing on the forward foot automatic.
Hope you an get out in decent weather to hit 'em long and straight.
Summer is on the way there, Ya baby!