If you're at all confused by the title of today's video, I'm not actually talking about a 1 iron. Most golfers (even professionals) do not carry 1 irons in their bags anymore. Heck, most of them don't even carry 2 irons. Regardless, what I'm referring to today is a set of irons that all have the same shaft length.
These are called 1 Iron Golf Clubs. I've actually witnessed this type of iron set in action and I don't really agree with using them. The main reason is simply because I coudn't hit them as far as my other clubs. However, Bruce Chamberlain recently bought a set of his own and says he will never go back to his name brand clubs.
I am an avid fan of the PPGS system of golf. Will never change. I watch all your daily videos and will continue to do so. You mentioned the 1 iron golf clubs on some of your latest videos. I purchased a set of 1 iron golf club and love them. I had a set of top brand golf clubs and can honestly say that I prefer the 1 iron clubs. Each of the 1 iron clubs is hitting just as far as my top brand clubs. I was hitting about 160 meters with the name brand clubs and hit the same with the 1 irons. I was hitting about 100 meters with the pitching wedge and hit the same distance with the 1 irons. I think unless you actually try these clubs yourself you won't realize how good they are.
Each manufacturer of clubs bring out new models to improve your game and if you buy them you would be spending a lot of money. I have a set of 1 irons clubs which are really well made and will be using them for as long as I can play golf or if they wear out.
Regards,
Bruce Chamberlain
I'm personally not a fan of clubs that are all the same length. But, if Bruce is finding success with them, who am I to say he shouldn't use them? That's the reason I wanted to share his comments with the Surge Nation. You never know what could be that one thing that makes you a better golfer. If you are struggling with your current clubs, why not give them a try? I would rather send you to a PPGS Certified Fitter, but if these 1 iron clubs worked for Bruce they might work for you.
In my opinon, you can hit these clubs well, but you'll never sniff the same distance you would with your other clubs. It's never worked for me or anyone else I've seen, but I'm glad it's working for Bruce. I commend him for trying because you won't truly know what works and what doesn't until you test it.
Keep it vertical!
The Surge
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Comments
I Iron Club
R2 I do hope you'll weigh in on this topic. Roger had a set of the 1 iron clubs and had me build him a set. He sent me his irons to check out. There is some merit to the principal but it's in theory. The first thing that strikes me about the 1 iron club is that you have no "fitting" as to what you need in the way of the dynamics of the proper shaft. The next thing that is missing is getting the correct lie angle. In my opinion, the only thing that you are really getting with the 1 iron club is the chance that you are getting the correct length clubs which normally is shorter than the OEM, like Ping, that was mentioned, therefore you should hit the ball better. However, if you get properly and professionally fit you get the same benefit but you get all the benefits and not just one. I caution those that had even a fleeting moment of wonder, the wait for Roger Reed to comment then go forth accordingly.
1 Iron Clubs
Thanks Doc and I would love to add my two-cents worth! I played 1-Irons for 3 years. They were good, I dare say even better than the off-the-shelf stuff being forced on the golf world today. BUT, when I had Doc Griffin build me custom-fitted clubs, they were far superior to any clubs out there (including 1-Irons). Better feel, more accurate, better distance, and easier to swing (I don't like the steel shafts of the 1-Irons). For the price you pay for a set of 1-Irons, you can get some nice custom-fitted clubs that perform even better! I've played Doc's clubs for 3 years now and finally understand just how important it is to get fitted for your clubs. If you don't, you will never be able to play your best game! If I were to rank clubs, #1 would be custom-fitted, #2 would be 1-Irons, and a distant #3 would be all the others. Custom-fitted clubs will out-preform any other club out there, any day, and in any playing conditions. Take are and hit 'em straight! R2
As far as the physics goes...
http://www.tutelman.com/golf/clubs/OneClub.php. 'Nuf said.
1 Iron Club
I bought a set of the 1 Iron clubs three years ago and I loved them. I like the feel and the fact that I do not have to adjust for every club length like the regular clubs sold. Everyone has a club that they feel comfortable using. In my case it is the 5 Iron, so all my clubs are the same as my 5 iron including wedges, the less adjustments the better.
1 Iron Club
I'm only addressing your comment because it is a common misconception of golfers that each club has a different set up and swing. It just isn't fact. In the standard set of clubs, the clubs get shorter by .5" as you go from long clubs to the short clubs. As you go from one club to the next, the lie angle also changes by .5". This means that as you address the ball regardless of club, your hands are in the same position relative to proximity to ground and to body. The only thing that changes is the body's position relative to the distance from the golf ball and the golf ball's position relative to the feet.
That being said, there is a case to be made that the 1 iron club allows the player to find the one spot for the correct ball position and just go with the one set up.
This is only partial true, I think
Changing the lie angles addresses the issue of changing clubs length ONLY if a person goes for a dynamic club-fitting AND ONLY IF the clubmaker adjusts each club individually (as opposed to fitting one club and building the rest of the set on a progression based on that one club). The mathematics of 1/2 inch progressions do not match up with lie angle progressions for most irons (see Dave 's True Length Technology (TLT) theory).
Also, even if you can address the issue of changing length by adjusting the lie angles through a dynamic fitting, this does not mean that your swing does not change. I know that Don says that your hands don't know what club they are holding, so the swing stays the same, but I don't think that is necessarily true. While your hands might not know what club they are holding, your body knows something has changed. It naturally reacts to the change in lengths and weights of clubs. (As a clubfitter, you know that more than anyone.) Only about a week ago, Jim McLean did a video on how your plane changes as the length of the club progresses. (I realize that Jim's name is probably a bad word due to the history of PPGS/SwingSurgeon, but I believe he is a pretty well-recognized teacher). I know for myself that as much as I try to keep the swing/positions the same with the PPGS, the longer the club is, the more tendency there is for it to lay off a bit.
Partial Truth
I appreciate your position. I hope you'll understand that I also don't deal in partial truth. If it's not 100% truth then it ain't truth! :) I of course don't call the static measuring thing a fitting.
As for Jim's comments, no, it's not a bad word, but it doesn't make it truth either. I would suggest if you haven't looked at Surge's through the bag video that you look. If you do, you'll see that at the top of the back swing his hands are in the same spot with each clubs just as they are at address.
The only way the club would have to get to a laid off position as they get longer is if you are having to compensate for the clubs being too long to begin with which is a problem with the industry as a whole. They have gotten ridiculous with making clubs longer and longer and longer.
Agreed
I agree completely with your comment about static fittings. I guess this is better than no fitting, but just barely. In fact, I think that is one of the main problems with the 1Irons. WTF measurement is just a starting point.
Hillbilly math equations
Putting 2 and 2 together there is merit to the same length concept that could easily be incorporated into the merit of custom fitted clubs (if somebody ever combines the two).
*If the argument against same length is that the shafts aren't fitted well enough, then fit the shafts well enough.
*If the argument against same length is that distance is lost with the longest irons (and if for some strange reason you care), then decrease loft (as one company does in the chart shown in the link by kcochrane).
*A moot point anyway because:
(A) The average golfer can't hit long irons (or hybrids) consistently enough to worry about a few yards anyway.
(B) Makes no difference how far ANY particular iron goes as long as you know your gaps and distances and hit them consistently.
(C) Quality of ball striking with 7 iron length is more consistent than quality of ball striking with 4 iron length (or hybrid length) for almost everybody.
*For the people that gain an advantage as the clubs get progressively shorter than a 7 iron only use the 1 Iron concept only for irons longer than a 7 iron.
*For people that don't gain an advantage as the clubs get progressively shorter than a 7 iron use the 1 Iron concept throughout the iron set.
Teaching and club design in the golf industry are usually so caught up in trying to be "right", and protecting their own techniques, that they rarely see the forest for the trees or explore the merits of other techniques. No wonder average golf scores by the golfing public are so bad.
Hillbilly math equations
Steve
I could have not said it better.
Hillbilly Math
Ouch. If the heads were available in the same weights to fitters, then that set you mentioned where a set with one length shafts could be built to the specs of the golfer then you'd have the best of both worlds. But, since they aren't then we can put 2 and 2 together or it we would. The Tutelman report is pretty conclusive. When you look at it, there is little difference in productivity of any of the clubs. But, there is more to compare in golf than distance. I'd much rather see a shot dispersion test. I would think accuracy trumps distance. However, I may be in the minority on that subject. The biggest obstacle is that most golfers just have trouble hitting longer irons and if you make those longer irons shorter, they get better results. However, club head speed and loft still equate to distance. So, for lower club head speed players, hybrids or woods should out perform the long irons even if the are 1 length.
My post dealt only with the 1 iron company, not the concept. You may get the correct length, but getting the exact shaft and the correct lie angle aren't going to happen as there is no fitting involved. They also don't offer you the option to not purchase an entire set so you can get hybrids if you wish.
For the record, I have tried the 1iron clubs and tested them before I ever addressed the subject. My conclusion is it an individual perception and what that person's reality is, then that is what it is. If it instills confidence, then it will work better. Mathematically speaking that will equal lowers scores and even more confidence. (brought that right in to the math analogy)
Progressive (double meaning)
" If the heads were available in the same weights to fitters, then that set you mentioned where a set with one length shafts could be built to the specs of the golfer then you'd have the best of both worlds."
(A) And they should be but won't unless the industry goes kicking and screaming like they've always done. They would much rather be wrong (example: huge driver heads and ridiculous shaft lengths) than to admit they are wrong and are building clubs most people can't hit.
"But, since they aren't then we can put 2 and 2 together or it we would."
(B) See (A).
Interesting post -- clarification
I very much enjoyed your comment and you make some really good points. Just as a point of clarification, Dave Tutelman isn't associated with a company. He is just a retired engineer who likes to study and write about golf. His site is really fun to read (if you're into that type of thing).
Progressive (got the meaning)
Made me chuckle. I might just contact Tim Hewitt to see about the imatch set mentioned in Daves' test. I wasn't aware that anyone else even had same weight heads. Tim might just sell to other fitters. We do both belong to the ICG. Might be worth checking out.
Renegade
I just see soooo many people trying to hit longer clubs that simply can't do it. They eventually all abandon their long irons in favor of the easier to hit hybrids (a step in the right direction) but although they hit them better than the irons they replaced they are still inconsistent at best because the clubs are still too long for them.
Even if those hybrids were adjusted down to a manageable length (for them) they would pick up strokes, even if they did "lose a few yards", which I doubt would happen for the higher handicap player anyway. Maybe on their best shots but they almost never hit those "best shots".
BTW. My wife plays with a set of hybrid looking clubs from the SW to the 3 iron. Weird looking clubs! None of them are very long and although she's not a very good player at all she shoots about 10 strokes better with those things than she would with a conventional set of irons. No golfer I know would abandon their pride enough to play those clubs but I would bet my next paycheck that every one of the higher handicap players I know would shoot a lower score with them.
Interesting
Really interesting comment, Steve. I bought my mom a set of those all hybrid sets at the beginning of the last year. She hits them better than her irons, but has basically given up the game because of age and illness. The thing that makes me chuckle is my dad's response to them.
My dad is 79 years old, still has a long, fluid swing, and still plays a good game of golf (he shot below his age twice last year). He took these irons out a couple of times in the evenings "out of curiousity." He told me that he couldn't believe how easy they were to hit and that his only complaint was that they hit the ball about 10 yards longer than his other irons and he was hitting everything past the pin. I looked at him and said, "Dad you know that you have hit the pinnacle of crotchitty-old-manness when hitting your clubs longer is the thing you are complaining about."
Even funnier is that he won't play these clubs with his friends because he doesn't want them making fun of him. LOL. I guess the ego never dies. The winner in all this is my wife who is now using these clubs and loves them. I just have to adjust the weights a bit for her. They are pretty head heavy for her.
I think many people would play better golf if they would let their egos go a bit. There would be fewer blades being sold, fewer stiff shafts in play, and much shorter clubs. And there would be a whole lot more divots on the front tees!!!
Nobody talking about Pinhawk irons?
This is an interesting comment, Doc. I say that because there are other options. MyOstrich golf, as I understand it, are no longer in business. However, there is another company selling a component head that is the same weight and specs throughout the set. They are called Pinhawks. And, in line with Tutelman's findings, are only offered from 5-iron through PW (they now have a 4-hybrid that falls into line with the rest of the of the set specs).
I am strongly considering trying to build a set of the Pinhawks. One of the reasons I switched away from my 1Irons (I played them for three seasons) is that I didn't like the feel of the shafts. I could just swap out the shafts on my 1irons, but I like the weights of the Pinhawks better. They are more inline with a 6-iron head weight, which I think gives a few more build options (i.e., you can always add weight, but it's tough to take it off without grinding).
There are two things that have stopped me to this point:
1) I still like hitting my 4-iron, and I don't really want to take mine out of the bag;
2) These types of clubs tend to be designed for higher handicaps. It's not that I don't think lower handicaps won't benefit from this concept or enjoy playing them, but because the designer created these with the high-handicapper in mind, the size of the head is a bit "shovel-like."
Hybrid wedges
Those hybrid wedges are surprisingly good for an unskilled ball striker. Almost impossible to hit a shot fat enough to mess it up.
There are two drawbacks to them for a better player:
(1) No way to hit a flop shot over a 70 ft. tree from 40 yards out.
(2) No way to get over the lip of a bunker from up against a very steep and very tall face.
Best thing is that my wife wouldn't be able to hit either of those shots anyway and the clubs dictate playing a more sensible shot.
1 iron clubs and 1 I ron driver
I bought a demo set of one iron golf clubs last year and after having initial success I grew gradually more frustrated with them. I think there are a couple of problems with them that I think I can correct but I'm not sure. The wrist to floor measurment is the only measurment that they use. That assumes a same posture at set up and I think my set up is more upright especially because I use a more upright swing. 2 I definitely could not hit the longer irons anywhere near as long as my Taylor made Irons and I found myself hitting the different irons on top of each other the same distance. Overtime I think this made me try to swing harder to get more distance out of the club and I lost my proper form. By the end of the summer my swing was a mess and I was ready to go back to my taylor mades. Frankly I bought them in a last ditch attempt to fix my game as I was at a point of quitting the game. I swore I wouldn't spend anymore money on equipment and then I bought the 1 I Iron clubs. I've decided to keep playing but I am going back to my taylor mades and hybrids. I will say this the one bright spot was the 1 Iron driver and also I think the woods. The driver has a smaller head and a shorter shaft and when my swing was right I was crushing the ball accurately better than with any other driver I had. The weight on it was great as well. I highly recommend their driver.
The Secrets of golf
A fellow Surgite sent me this and it is funny stuff only experienced golfers could fully appreciate.
Enjoy!
http://www.americangolf.com/blog/mulligans/the-32-secrets-of-golf/
One lenght iron sets
I bought a set of pinhawk irons 4 to LW and although the longer wedges took a few games to get used to the results from 5i down speak for themselves. I fitted myself as I would for variable length irons.
My longer clubs are 3.5 . and 7woods shafted at 41 inches and all balanced to D1. Driver is 43.5 inches and I used Doc's articles to get shaft right. Took a couple of goes though. Hitting a lot of fairways and greens at present. I am looking to try the Cobras at present to compare. Basically I am saying if it works for you and your score improved go for it. I use the PPGS and it works with both sets of irons I have.