I want to first start by saying that I have been really impressed over the last year or so during my time with students at golf schools and lessons. The sheer amount of knowledge that is displayed at these schools is tremendous. Many Surgites can recite the instruction manual and videos with extreme precision. However, that knowledge isn't always translating to their actual setup and swing.
Today, I'm going to give you the top mistakes I see just in the setup position. These are some of the most common mistakes because most of the time, the golfers don't even realize they're set up incorrectly. That's what can make golf so challenging because it's hard to self-diagnose.
Remember that in the PPGS Master Setup position, the feet need to be flared out. Too many people are still setting up with straight feet. You're going to feel a lot of tension in your knees if you continue to do this. Having flared feet promotes a tension-free backswing and allows you to keep a quiet body throughout the swing.
I'm also seeing a lot of golfers who think they are pre-loaded heavy right (or left for lefties). Many of them are actually leaning too far forward so they don't have proper balance.
I'll go over a few more mistakes in today's video as well, such as ball position and shaft angle.
You're all getting a lot closer, and these are just a few helpful hints to get you in an even better position. Remember my number one Surgism: The setup determines the motion!
Good luck and keep it vertical!
The Surge
If you can't view the YouTube video above try CLICKING HERE. You must allow popups from this site for the link to work.
Comments
Set up - nose and heavy right
How can I keep my nose over the ball yet preload right when having the ball in the forward position???
Nose pointed at the ball
The nose is not over the ball, it is behind the ball but pointed at the ball.
Keyword is "AT". :-D
Keyword is "AT". :-D
NAB: https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/nab-nose-ball-0
Thanks
I was just going to say when seeing the original poster use "over" instead of "at" that I remembered seeing Surge talk about EXACTLY THAT in a video not all that long ago. :)
Importants of set up
Excellent reminders by Surge concerning set up. All good ones for me.
PLHR is one I still need reminding about and here's why. Though in general it is wise to just do the same thing every time, as Surge says, " the ball doesn't know what club your swinging or if your young, old, male, female, ect., we also know that different shots may require a slight adjustment in set up. For example I have adapted the Kenny Knox/Zach Johnson method of keeping more weight on the front foot for shots 100 yards and in. So my weight is either even or slightly forward for most shorter shots. This helps me have ball first contact and fewer fatties. On normal shots (with no significant wind)I set up pre-loaded heavy right as recomended. When it is windy and especially when the hitting into the wind I set up with weight pre loaded heavy left (on my front foot). that is in harmont with Surges advice when hitting into the wind. Okay so I need to be alert because as Surge mentions, it can be a set up fault if we are not careful. For me I need to remember to set up PLHR on normal shots. Becauase I occasionally set up with weight forward I will then forget to heavy right on other shots (if not alert). Hope that didn't seem controdictory. It just poits out that golf is a fluid, ever changing game of conditions, circumstances and our puropose with each shot.
On another note, yeasterady for the first time ever I birdied 3 of 4 par 5's on my home course. Unfortunately I had a few poor holes so no personal record score. only an 80 that could have been much better.
Setup and motion
Great round on the old course there, Robert. I don't get on the course so much these days, but I'm on the range at least once a week, working on my setup and swing. Nose AT the ball is still an issue for me, apparently, if my face-on videos are to be believed. I actively try to be sure my nose is pointed at the ball, but sometimes that old habit creeps in.
One funny point about Surge's hatred for bifocals, I recently got some and don't always remember to switch glasses before heading to the range, but I discovered that, because my frames are wide but short, I can look at the ball UNDER the frames, which keeps my head up and gives me better posture for hitting.
In terms of motion, I've found something very interesting recently. I'd been working as usual on controlling shot distance, seeing what it takes to carry the ball 50, 80, 100, out to whatever maximum yardage I can hit a particular club. I found that I was STILL getting too much motion from my front leg on full shots, so I've been actively trying to just lift my arms up in the backswing and not move my lower body at all until I bump and swing up to the finish. WOW does that help with ball striking. And distance improves with it. Such a beautiful, powerful, simple swing this is when we get our heads and our bodies out of the way and just let our arms swing the club the way they're designed to swing it.
A complete side note, on the range today I watched a bit of a man hitting next to me, carefully working on a full body turn to get his left shoulder pointed at the ball in the back swing, and his left heel off the ground and then lifting his arms up and it was a discombobulated mess that tore chunks out of the earth below his ball and sent it on a low trajectory, even with wedges, to varying and unpredictable distances. I so badly wanted to go to this man and say, "Would you like to learn a swing in five minutes that you can actually play with?" but I find that most of the golfers here are not interested in hearing from me, so I just let him be. Poor, struggling man. It's not his fault, it's the fault of an industry telling him he has to do something in a way his body is just not designed to do it.
I recently read a book called
I recently read a book called The Impact Zone by Bobby Clampett, in which the primary thought was that the bottom of the swing arc is supposed to be 4 inches in front of the ball. What is your position on this?
Thanks,
Gary in Shakopee
My own thoughts
The Surgism, borrowed from golf greats before him, is to take bacon strips, not beef steaks for divots. To tear the grass from the ground, not dig it out. In physics, we know that the point of greatest acceleration along an elliptical arc is the point of inflection. To transfer maximum force to the ball, we want the club to be accelerating as much as possible, so that point of inflection should be close to, but beyond the impact point with the ball. Also, the arc of the golf swing is an ellipse tilted on its side, as the Y axis should be our spine, which in the PPGS we have tilted away from the ball. This means that we come into the ball on a shallow path and exit on a steeper, upward path.
It's an imperfect analogy, as the path of the club head is in three dimensions, but it's sufficient for understanding. I try to focus more on keeping my hands moving along a true vertical plane and keeping my palms perpendicular to the ground throughout the swing. If I manage that, everything else takes care of itself.
"bacon strips not pork chops"
I agree with your thoughts there Robert. The other thoughts on striking just past or in front of the ball are valid too, however I would say the Surgism "the set up determines the motion" applies. As Surge covered in this video we set up with the club leaning slightly forward or the handle lean toward the forward hip. This normally will have the shaft in line with the forward (leading) arm, from the club head to the front (forward) shoulder (rock string). Now having said that if the ball position is correct then it should all happen without purposely 'hitting down' which is an unnecessary no no IF that is IF you set up correctly. Striking the ball first then is automatic IF our set up is correct. Robert, I know you understand all that it was mainly a comment for the previous reference to Bobby Clampett.
I wish that I could have consistent ball first contact. It is amazing how good that feels and how perfect it flies if we get that perfect center of the club face ball first crispy strike of the ball. I only did that twice yesterday. Once with a 6 iron from 160 yards. Ball flew high and pretty landing about 165 yards and rolling out another 5 yards into the back trap on #15 (you remember the Sigfred and Roy hole). That had me laying two on that par 5 in the back bunker. Blasted out to 8 feet and rolled in the birdie putt. The second 'perfect ball strike was on 18. Had 117 yards left. that would normally be a medium pitching wedge for me or a hard gap wedge. The flag was up on top above the giant bunker and to the right so I wanted to make sure I had enough club. Nuked it and boy did it feel good. Ball landed over green and settled a total of about 135-140 yards (my normal 9 iron). If I always had that ideal contact I would use less club BUT and her's the 'rub' I never know when or if I'll hit it perfect because it is so rare.
Never complain when it happens:) Better long than short. I hate short.
BTW, I almost never go hit balls on the range but play enough to basically be practicing all the time any way. Won't the clubs you go to let you play nine only of time is your reason for not playing most days? I know some guys would rather bang balls but I am the opposite. I'd much rather play even if I only have an hour or two.
Striking
Your description is 90% of what separates us duffers from the pros. The ability to consistently strike the ball first with that perfect, clean contact in the center of the club face. Ah, what joy when it works. :)
Time and funds are both part of why I don't get on the course, much. I have monthly range card at my nearby club, so all my time on the range is paid for, but actually getting on the course still costs more (as well as taking more time). I do prefer time on the course, but I don't work on my game so much while I'm playing. I just play. I work on things on the range then try to take them to the course. :)
Time and money
Both. Never seems to be enough time right.
Money. Always get a kick out of people who de-emphasis the importance of money. Like tour players who make millions and say they play because they just love the game and want to win. Like money's evil. Ha! The other group who sometimes will say money's not important are those who are poor. Really?
My Dad used to put it best (sarcastic he was:)
"Rich or poor, life's always better with money!"
The reason Cindy and I can play 2,3 days a week is primarily because we walk and play in the afternoon for $11.00 each. Maybe you'll eventually track down a cheaper muni course in the Dallas Fort Worth area.
In the mean time happy ranging.
Hey, Ranger Robert! Sorry it just popped into my pea brain:)
low pont of arc
I'm not a physicist, so I have no idea what a "point of inflection" is. Clampett did a bunch of research on this, discovering that the pros are typically 4" ahead of ball position with the deepest part of their divots.
I was wondering if Surge had a thought on this, since Clampett is not using a 3/4, limited turn swing in his research; but then, the ball doesn't "know" what kind of swing was put on it.
If you're only tearing up grass, then the approach has to be shallow, and that leads me to wonder if there's some danger in thining the shot.
Point of inflection is
Point of inflection is geometry, not physics, really. It's the point where the arc shifts from moving down to moving up, basically.
And, yes, the most common mishit with the PPGS is probably thin shots, but thin shots go further and straighter than fat shots, so it's a better miss overall.
I haven't read Clampett's book or seen his research or done any similar research into the low points of golfers' swings. I'm just talking about theory from the perspective of simple kinetics. From the perspective of golfers, I'd rather have the ball striking of Tom Watson (who cleanly nips the ball off the grass, rarely taking much of a divot) than be wrecking my wrists driving a club head into the ground over and over again. :)
Point of inflection is
Robert,
AMEN Brother! thin is much better than fat - specially if the fairways are hard and the grass short.
I learned to play on a muni course in Memphis, TN. It featured very thin fairway turf over Tennessee hardpan (almost as hard as concrete). You soon learned to nip the ball off the turf. Produced a high flying shot that landed soft. even today, if you see me reaching for the sand bottle or chasing a divot to replace it, you KNOW I hit that one fat. In general, my divot is really flying bits of grass with a semi-bare spot where the ball was struck with the back edge of the bare spot near the front of where the ball was before impact.
Also I remember reading some words from Bobby Jones on the subject of divots. He believed that a perfect swing would produce no divot whatsoever. However, he also noted that this is impossible to do consistently, and concluded that a small shallow divot is the best alterative for most golfers.
Just my .02 worth
Amos
geometry
Me, too. My 70-year-old wrists don't like that, unless it's really sandy. Speaking of which, Sandy Lyle rarely took a divot, and he played pretty well.
Thanks for the explanation.
I have a question about putting.
I have been using PPGS for about 5 years now. I had Doc build me an awesome set of clubs. Fairways and greens are realistic targets I hit . I am having more fun golfing and acting like I know what I am doing more than ever, except: I had a stroke in January.
I notice nothing except a loss of part of my field of vision, Scotoma I believe is the correct word.
I lost the right 1/3 of my vision in each eye, peripheral vision, if you will. It does not seem to affect my aim on tee shots or approach shots. on putting, is another story altogether.
If i set up for a putt , nose on ball, I lose sight of my putter if I move it back past about 1-2 ball widths. I never realized how much I rely on peripheral vision in golf till it was gone.
I lost 10-15 strokes a round at first, but have worked diligently and have got my handicap back down to pre-stroke levels, but I am improving all but putting.
I am finally improving some there by breaking a rule of nose on ball. I actually center my vision about 2-3 inches behind the ball on putting so I can see the putter arc and line. I am NOT a feel player, I have to be specific in all my golf. I think it is about having athletic ability (or not, in my case).
Any suggestions on putting to compensate?
My goal of breaking 80 this summer may not happen, but I have been staying mid 80's and hitting it farther than I ever have. It's fun except for putting.
A bad day at golf is STILL better than a good day of anything else.
putting
Odd am I to never watch the putter swinging. I only visualize rolling the ball over a spot forward of the ball. The spot can be behind the ball. Specific and feel meet in an on on on Square and solid release. Your imagination can create the aim points despite your eyes limitations. Good luck!
oops
:)
;-)
It's the lack of peripheral vision and loss of depth perception. Some times I just have to whine about it, ya know?
2 hours till next round. Would rather attempt a 45 foot putt than an 8 footer. 3-4 foot is ok.
6-7 3 putts kill a round. Kenny Knox and Surge short game video has improved the short game a LOT.
The Set Up - The Ultimate
Played in a comp yesterday and broke my H/C by 8 strokes, so things starting to happen and I put it down to "The Setup", put lots of attention on this now.
Defintely having flaired feet and wide knees including shifting my weight back a little, but the biggest effect has been the right elbow at address.
Like Surge says this must be tucked in slightly to allow the lift to happen correctly, he demonstrated this in a school I went to last year and while at first it didn't seem to make any difference, by practising various positions to suit my body, have found a position that gives me more accuracy and hope
to discuss this with Surge on his next visit down-under for his opinion.
My elbow now rests just above my belt and the longer the club, the more I tend to move it towards the buckle, this info may help another Surgite, but interested to know if anyone else does the same or similar.
Hope the Surge is recovering well and miss his dailys.
Agreed
I like your description of what you do with your right (rear) elbow. That's pretty similar to what I try to get it to feel like and the closer I get, the better my shots seem to be.
Congratulations on the great play, too!
setup
My right leg is 1/4" shorter than the left & my right shoulder sags 1" below my left shoulder ( due to rotator cuff injury ). Being a right -handed golfer, I have to allow for about 2" adjustment ( right hand lower on grip ) or else I have a strong tendency to hit too many fat shots. Anyone else have setup issues due to body structure?
Golf BiFocals
I had a pair of "golf" bifocals made which had the focal distance for the right eye to be the distance to the ball at set-up w/ the driver. The left eye had bifocal set to "scorecard" distance. Monovision. Worked pretty well for me.
Set-up, Video vs Swing Book information
The video says, flare both feet 30 degrees.
The swing book says, flare the left foot 10-15 degrees, right foot 5-20 degrees?
Video says to pre-load weight to right side.
Swing book doesn't mention it?
Impact Zone
I know Bobby very well and fully understand his concepts. His overarching concept is focused on getting people to hit the ball first and ground second. As such he believes the shaft needs some forward lean. I have had the privilege of measuring many TOUR players divots and their deepest part of their divots do tend to be 3 to 4 inches in forward of the ball. Conversely higher handicappers tend to have a low point at or behind the ball. It's not often you see a touring pro hit a fat show so Bobby feels that hitting it more solid by hitting ball first would help many. PPGS creates natural lag vs. trying to create more lag then what is natural for each individual. Also important to know Tom Watson has a 4 inch in front low point even with him being more of a picker of the golf ball
Don likes students to set up with a little forward shaft lean to start anyway so if people did nothing to alter the heavy right hands slightly forward of the ball e.g. shaft lean you will always hit ball first and ground second…
All in with PPGS
Ok a little history here, I am about to turn 60 this fall and only picked up the game a little over two years ago. I have have had back surgery 15 years ago but doesn't flair up much if I do my stretching and so forth. Anyway I have been trying to find a way to get a consistent golf swing with all the rotary methods out there and it just don't work for me, believe me I have looked at it or tried so many different things that I was so frustrated I wanted to quit! I have been watching Surge's videos on You Tube for over a year but just too hard headed to try it, I would practice it some but never commit fully to it. So with struggling all spring with some other body friendly swing I went to the range today and was just hacking and chopping my irons to no end. So after about ten balls out of my bucket with no results I said to myself let's try the PPGS, I set up and went back into the catcher's mitt and up the tree and back down and BOOM! Ok I said to myself let's just see if it was for real or not, I hit several other shots, straight down the middle, hit every iron in the bag with good results, hit my hybrids and woods great also! All that I can say now it that to those who may think this won't work you are missing out on something, I only had two swing thoughts, up the tree and back down and through. I just want to thank Don for his knowledge and passion for golf. I am all in on PPGS.
Greg Boggs
Gastonia,NC