Florida Golf School - Day 1

 Doc, I certainly did and am working on it with her who has to be obeyed, if you get my drift ; - ) heh heh heh. Patience is now becoming more natural to me.
Thanks for the prompt reply.
Kindest to you and your good lady wife. DH

Seems like I heard Jack N. one time say he won many tournaments with a bad swing and he had to learn how to play with what he had that day and fixed the problem at the range not on the course.

Steve C
Monday, April 9 beginning about 10.00AM there will be golf instruction on the driving range with the Surge and Greg MacDonell, and  Doc Griffin all day. Tuesday after the tournament, DJ and Don will be giving  clinics. So there will be lotsa instruction going on. Can hardly wait to get there.
Hal

 Too bad Disqusted doesn't work the way that is easier for all of us to reply to posts.

First paragraph, an eye line off from the parallel left body alignment will affect the shot shape when the shot is most important. On the range not so much.

Not any pertinent comments on the second paragraph as it is your adaptation to the game for your body's best result.

Third paragraph, you are right that the eye alignment will have little affect on the foot alignment. Or the alignment of the other parts of the body. Every thing you say is right on and the video clips on You Tube show a really good swing. I really like the way that you drop the club down to the slot before unwinding the torso. Very few Tour pros do this that well.

Paragraph four, the head tilt doesn't cause a bad swing, just a good swing with the results to a place not intended. Great swings can produce poor results even when the ball striking seems really good. You are right about standing square and not being target oriented. The target is on one side or another of the aim line. I don't teach target alignment. Only aim line alignment.

As to your head tilted one way or another it does not have anything to do with the alignment. It does matter a great deal on results. The alignment of the body parts creates the ability to hit good shots. The eye alignment creates the ability to hit great shots under pressure.

It doesn't seem like we are in disagreement about very much in these posts. I am revealing what makes a difference between good ball strikers and great ball strikers. Those players who hit it really well.

Eye alignment is the key to scoring. Not matter what one's ability for ball striking, if the eye alignment is in agreement with the shot pattern, the player will succeed at the level intended.

The last paragraph, thanks for the compliment. I hope to break good players free from the target and on to the aim line like Surge promotes in the PPGS swing.

 Absolutely Robert,
                              Yesterday a couple of my well struck and beautifully flighted tee shots with the big dog 'knocked on wood' and ended up in all sorts of trouble : - (
No doubt in my mind that ALIGNMENT was the root cause.
                              Your timely reminder on dropping the club shaft across the toe line, is a STARK reminder to yours truly to re-start what I had been doing previously!
I have previously set up then checked the club shaft from behind and tweaked it parallel left where it wasn't parallel left, stepped in to the shaft and re took my stance. Works, so why don't we use it all the time??? It makes sense to do so. Thanks for the surrogate 'telling off' Robert. DH in sunny Wgtn NZ : - )

I would love to attend a one day school in Florida.  Will you schedule other sessions  this year?  Please consider SW Florida as one of your sites.

Mike L

No doubt that alignment while putting is equally if not more important because a fraction of a miss aim may mean a missed putt. However, putting is such an individual variable as some are more comfortable with an open stance, some sligtly closed and putting styles can vary a ton as we know.
I know for me if I roll the ball over the line (spot) I've chosen at the right pace it will have the best chance to go in most of the time. I know immdiately if I have missed my line because my starting line is normally within 3 inches in front of the ball. My miss on putts is normally a pull and not the fault of my alignment which is normally pretty good.Consistenly placing the ball in the same place relative to our stance is a biggy and can effect whether I pull or push.

Hi Hal,

Thank you for the info.  I'm glad there's going to be instruction on both the first and second days.  I've been trying to get my swing looking somewhat like PPGS and have been video taping my swing each day to see if the changes are taking effect.  I also sent in one video to one of Surge's on-line instructors who gave me some good feedback, but it's taking me a long time to get those changes incorporated.  I've had a big loop in my swing for nearly 40 years and several pros gave up on trying to change it.  But it has to change if I'm going to play in my retirement since my shoulders need less stress.

Look forward to meeting you at the tournament.  By the way, where are you staying?  I haven't make hotel arrangements yet.

Steve

Hey Don,

I was just coming off the range when I walked by you today as you were checking out the practice facility at Arlington Ridge Golf Club in Leesburg.   Hope you decide to run something here.  They have a great instruction crew!

 I really liked the baseball hitting info. Especially the bat dissecting the head through the eyes in line with the incoming orb.

As to the eye line being different between the irons and driver there is a kernel lurking there. The cause of the eye line being off is how the torso and neck are angled when seen from the face on view. The lower the back shoulder, the more the eye line is off unless a conscious effort is made to level the eyes.

A couple of easy checks are to get into the MSP, PLHR in front of a mirror and then look up and note the angle of the eyes. Then level them out and look back at the ball. At first there will be tension and a bit discomfort as the neck does not normally angle against the shoulders.

A second way is when hitting balls or on the course look up at the horizon. Most people will level the head and eyes and when looking back down on the ball.

As to crossing the line between a good player and a superb one I have found a way to teach that crossing for golf. Simply to get the eye line parallel to the aim line in putting. I have seen an improvement of 2-7 shots a round. This is the key to achieving the best scoring possible over a long period of time. There is not much difference in the scoring average over a year on the Tour between #1 and the guys hovering around #125.

I understand your logic and you're likely correct in your asessment of the three types. Likely most fall into category #3 or D and miss the same way most of the time. These are guys who can't figure out why they push or slice most of the time and then have the ocassional pull or duck hook as they try to compensate. I have decided to work on being in that "A" group even if my scores never fully reflect that.
I'm sure most of us will be better off in the long run if we work on correct alignment so that it can be taken out of the equasion of results.

Steve C
Surge has special rates reserved at The Hilton Garden Inn at Hilton Head. call 843-837-8111 and mention the Surge tourney to get the special rates.
Hal

Really happy the 1 day golf schools came to Florida, as I'm planning to addend on Thursday. Previously, the 1 days have been in S.C. and the 3 days in the Orlando, FL area. The one day is more affordable for me. I've been trying to get the vertical swing down now for 2 years now. I had several major flaws in my swing before I took on the Surge swing, and I was averaging scores in the 90's and 100's. Up until recently, those scores stayed the same, having lots of trouble getting rid of those flaws. But now it's finally starting to come together. I've learned so much how fundamentals are so important - grip, stance, posture, allignment, balance, and something I wasn't very good at and still working on - finishing the swing.  My flaws were swaying, swinging from the top (shoulders rotating at beginning of down swing), pushing the face in the front of the hands before contact, and most all the time coming "over the top", and terrible balance (probably due to bad allignment). And of course my grip was not very good until I straightened that out. My message to those who have been trying the Surge swing for a while and don't seem to be lowering their scores is - hang in there and stick to it and keep learning - it will come. About a month and a half ago I had a 71 entering the 17th hole (won't go into detail how I ended up with a 94 - an amusing story for another time) and 3 days ago I shot and 83 with 3 birdies (no amusing story for that one). The bump I had a hard time getting down, but I think I'm doing it now almost without thinking about it. I must be doing it because I'm getting a lot more distance on my shots recently (especially with the Driver). Now I think hitting in the 70's is possible for me. now that I am stringing together good scores for much more than just 3 or 4 holes in a row. Thanks Surge! I'm looking forward seeing you next Thursday.

The schedules for the year are posted in the above link under "instruction" logically enough.

 Dragonhead

I just received my new Swing Rite from Doc last week.  I love it.  It is helping me with my tempo on my swing, and my release.  Is helping me correct my over the top outside-inside swing.  I think I've added about 10 yards to each club since I got it.

If you can figure out a way to get your hands on one, I'm sure it will help you.

I hope you can get it past the finance committee,
Dick

I agree with you and looking forward to the trip.  Just a little disappointed that my request fell through the cracks.  In any case, a trip to SC will mean that I get a chance to visit my oldest daughter and her family who reside in Charlotte.  Maybe I'll finally be able to show her a real change in my swing once I'm around vertical swingers for 3 days. :-)

Of course, even for A level professionals, alignment can become an issue. Ask Ernie Els, who said that after his Friday round, when everything was going to the right, he went to the range and realized he was lining up a couple degrees to the right. 

 Dick, You must be psychic mate. Just past by the finance director and will be ordering one ASAP. Glad it is doing the business for you. As soon as I saw your original comment I said to myself, that it was just what I needed. Yeeeeha~! PMGAS Dick, catchyalatermate. DH complete with smile ; - )

Sounds like you're figuring things out for your swing Steve.
On your final edit concerning alignment:I have attended two different events where I both saw Surge (and his teaching staff) teach others and myself personally. What normaly happens is after he addresses the whole class in a clinic style, he then critics and advises each student individually as they set up and hit shots on the range. So visualize all the students lined up along the range hitting balls and practicing/warming up while waiting for Surge (and or a teacher to approach and give them personal attention. He will ask them to go ahead and set up so he can see where they're at with their golf swing. After a observing them for a short time often the very first thing he will address is alignment. Everyones alignment is off. I think that by the end of these sesions most students are starting to get lined up correctly. My point is that it is not that it can't be done. It is that inspite of the clear instruction given in multiple video lessons and practiced before these schools by most of these ardent Surgites, most still are off whether a little or a lot. For right handers it is usually way right and for lefties way left.
Not that I now get it right all the time now I have to say that it is something I work on religiously ( yes even on Sundays). One of the key points that Surge has preached is that we need to put a club down at our footline after we hit an apparent good shot to a wrong place to check to see if our alignment was parallel left (for righties) or not. How many avid Surgites actually do this?
Surge has said most don't inspite of his repeating this advice numerous times in our dailies. Even more effective might be what he has also mentioned and taught me this past PPGS tourny here in Las Vegas. When I had the privelage of playing 9 holes with Surge before each of my shots after I was set up he would stop me and ask, "Are you aligned correctly?" He would have me drop a club at my footline BEFORE hitting the ball. I was off nearly every time by a little or a LOT. But this did begin to really drill into my head and eyes what correct parallel left alignment looks like and how we can check it even before we swing(and compensate or hit it to that wrong place). Yes I still do often use this on the golf course. It is something that can be done quickly and is completely okay to do during play as long as we pick up the club before striking the ball. I do this often enough to check my alignment multiple times during any round. I may be off in my guess as to why most Surgites evidently don't liston to this advice but I guess it is because no one else on the golf course does this in play and they are embarrassed to be seen doing it or something along those lines.
Sorry this is a bit long but I'd like to mention one more observation about seeing Surge set up to the ball. He initially seemed to me to be aimed too far to the left with his footline as I stood behind him. After warching him play those nine holes it became clear to me that what the majority may think is parallel left is still not aligned left enough. So most think they are aimed left enough but are not.

Reprising my 10 holes yesterday, I hit a superb iron shot on every hole but one. That was a short par 4, where the tee shot was so-so. I took a 5w and smoked it. it never left the middle of the green, where the flag was. It went through the green, missing the pin by inches on the way. With what Surge said at the end, is probably staring me in the face,ie, the woods I am using are not suited to me : - (  This afternoon's 10holes I am taking the Mizuno woods with me. The Driver is 11* as opposed to the r7's 10.5* Played well with it in UK. The Mizuno clubs I bought off the shelf in Dalian, China [from a reputable Golf shop]. They are obviously made for 'normal' sized guys on the East Asian markets of Japan and China. Being a 'normal' sized guy myself [PC speak, for sawn off at the knees heh heh heh], leads me to believe they are more suited to me. Will see what transpires. The irons I am having no trouble whatsoever with.
Had to smile at the descriptions given by Surge today on both the drivers and alignment and set up problems. There is always someone worse than we are ; - ) Will make sure that my shorts are not too revealing this afternoon, too many Mountain bikers around here Dick Lee.
On with the journey to being the best we can be, with Surge's unstinting help.PMGAS.
DH in sunny Wgtn NZ

 Doc, Sent you an email requesting help with my purchase of the Swing Rite. Will not be able to do anything else until tomorrow our time. Have a great day DH

Surge,
I just completed a lengthy comment below concerning alignment. It strikes me that although you have instructed us multiple times on alignment and what parallel left is, it is easy to conclude that most if not all students attending your schools and therefor likely many of those that visit and comment on this blog also don't truely get it either.
Perhaps you can again cover this one more time. It is obviously super important to you as you've told us that 95% of all swing issues can be credited to poor alignment.
Give it to us one more time with illustrated clarity.

True, Surge has said it is a challenge even for the pros too. I think the ladies are the humblest and smartest when it comes to utilizing their cadies for alignment both on their normal shots and putts.
In my case, both by adjusting my lies and working consistently on alignment I can get more consistent over all results. It has proven true the last couple of weeks. I want to elliminate as many variables as posssible. I want my bad/good shots to be identifiable as simply a poor or good swing and not equiptment or alignment issues.
Headed out to play 18 with the wife rigt now.
Get out and play golf guys and gals!
PMG

Glad to see that the one day golf school is going well.  I'm a little bummed out because I asked if there was going to be one in Florida and was told that it would be discussed but never heard back.  I live in South Florida and have two kids who live in the Orlando area, so one these one-day classes would have been perfect.  Instead, I signed up for the golf tournament at Old South Golf Links next month.  Guess there will be some instruction up there, but it's still a lot longer drive than to Orlando.

 The posts on this are a great read.

Steve, let me comment on your first two paragraphs as I see this all the time when teaching and especially with those who are "good" players.

When you hit bad shots when aligned properly and then good ones when playing a draw/hook there is a common root cause suffered by almost every player I have coached. The eye angle is off to the right where the path for the draw/hook is.

The number 1 alignment key should be the optical alignment parallel to the line you want the shot to start on. Then align the toes, knees, hips and shoulders to the eye line.

My teaching cure is to have them aim the club face at the intended target and have them shuffle open to where the eye line is left of it. This produces a lot of moaning and groaning about being too open, but once done the soft fades result with out any other swing adjustments.

Having seen the swings you have posted on You Tube I can see that your eye line is perfect for the hook/draw shot you posted about and that it would not produce good shots when trying to swing on the parallel left alignment of the rest of your body.

P.S. I am also thinking your many different swings are more related to the difference in the eye line and the other body lines. All your videos show pretty much the same swing.

P.S.S. good putting is 98% aligning the eye line to the start line.

 Robert,

Your suggestion brought up thoughts of an oldie, I used to and still do like, but have not heard for decades, until this morning.

Memories are so precious, especially the good one's.  Thanks for this mornings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Oh, you're such a 70's guy T. I miss those days too. Fun they were:)

Never heard back from you on the Swing Rite.  Did you get my response?

 If these same miss-aligned folks, including myself probably, are doing the same thing on the greens, that would explain a lot of missed putts.

I do not recall Surge talking about whether or not this is the case at his schools and clinics, but I suspect it might be. Perhaps those pushes or pulls were in fact straight through (on, on, on), but miss-aligned.

Hi Robert,
Couldn't find the Florida one day schools listed in the instruction link.  Maybe I'm missing something. I was also hoping to get to a one day school and had requested one.  Instead I'll be heading for Surge's Spring tournament next month and hope I can get some instruction there to get the loop out of my swing.Regards,Steve

Yeah, but you wouldn't have gotten to meet Greg McDonnell and me at the one day school.  So the drive is definitely worth it!  :)

 I do talk about the optical or eye alignment a lot. Hopefully I can explain it better. It is a line that runs between the center of each of the eyes, extending out to infinity. I will try to build an image to help with visualizing that. A simple idea that is a lot harder to explain.

If you stand up straight and look at the horizon, chances are your eyes will be parallel to it. If you tilt your left ear to your left shoulder the eye line will tilt left. Tilting the right ear to the right shoulder tilts the eye line right.

There are two things that make the eye line tilt in the golf swing. The back shoulder below the left for righties tilts the neck so the right ear is closer to the right shoulder than the left. This aims the eye line to the right.

In the Surge swing the NAB can accentuate the neck lean and reinforce or increase the eye line to the right.

Not matter where the eye line points it will be close to parallel to the aim line. Your comment about the eyes pointing at the ball and 90* is another line between each line and the ball as opposed to the line across what I call the eye line.

As to having the line off on the bad days cannot be commented on with certainty with out being there, but in nearly four decades of teaching this I can say that the talent of humanity can over come this error until it becomes important for the result to end up at the target.

To comment on the 90% of days where parallel left works, right on. The eye line is rarely off more than 2-8* which is a pretty large distance at 200 yards and increases with the ability to hit the ball farther. With a short putt it does not take much to think you are lined up and oops a great stroke misses.

To conclude, your comments point out the weakness in the way I try to convey this line of teaching. It is a lot easier to do in person and a lot harder in print. Thanks for the feed back. The more I can explain to you the better it makes my instruction.

STC

 I also do not see anything about one-day schools in the course listing.  I would definitely be interested.