How To Properly Address The Ball

Today's tip is on where you should place your club relative to the ball at address. It comes from a question sent in by Bill Frazer, who was commenting on a recent tip I gave for those who chronically hit the ground behind the ball.

"Hi Surge,

I just viewed your video on hitting the ground behind the ball. I have found that the best solution to this problem is to make sure to address the ball with the head of the club just above the ball. If you place the club on the ground, doesn't it tend to want to return to the spot from which the swing originated? I find this especially beneficial on short chip shots - but I believe it helps with all clubs. Thanks for your wonderful golf instruction."

Bill, this may be working for you, but then I think there could possibly be some other swing problem at play here. With regard to the question about where to place the club, I believe you answered your own question when you said "If you place the club on the ground, doesn't it tend to want to return to the spot from which the swing originated?" Yes! That should be precisely what happens IF nothing else moves. You see, one of the most important results of a proper setup is that we set the correct spine angle by positioning the club at the place we want it to return to at impact. If you are hitting off a tee, then your club should not be resting on the ground but should be placed directly behind the ball. If you are hitting the ball off the ground then, by all means, that's where you should start the clubhead moving back into the Catcher's Mitt.

If you don't do this, then you are going to need to make an in-swing spine angle adjustment to get the club's sweet spot on the ball. That's a really tricky thing to do and it's not something I would recommend anyone try to perfect because it can lead to a whole host of bad results. As I have always said, "Goilf is a game of angles, the fewer the better" and we should always start our swing with the correct angle.

As you'll hear in the video, I believe a good number of people who have trouble hitting the ball consistently are not looking at the ball correctly. Either their eye is not looking directly at the ball, or their head is forward of it, or they may be looking at the top of the ball rather than the point where it meets the ground. And, if they are wearing glasses with bifocals or even tri-focals, they are inviting problems because it only takes a very tiny eye movement to move from one focal plane to the other and if this happens during your swing, you stand a good chance if mis-hitting the ball. If necessary, carry two sets of glasses with you when you play--one with monovision lenses for when you are swinging or putting and the other set you can put on when you return to your cart and need to mark your score or check the yardage.

Keep it vertical!

The Surge

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Comments

Without backspin the ball

Without backspin the ball would not ride up the club face and be propelled forward, so you do have backspin. Now, do you want hit, skip, and stop backspin, or do you want hit 20ft past the hole and backspin to the hole kind of backspin. The more you want, the faster you'll need to be through the ball. The faster you can get the ball to ride up the club face with quality surface contact, the more spin you'll create. Keep the face clean, the ball clean, and use a high spin ball at $50.00 a dozen. Just like backspin on the cue ball, it's the angle of attack/contact and speed through the ball. We can't chalk our iron, but we must keep them clean for full service contact at the precise angle of attack.

Or, just learn to hit a little shorter and let your ball roll out to the hole. In close to the green, spin is very dangerous, use a high soft landing shot. The kind Lee used to call landing like a butterfly with sore feet.

Good looking backspin is impressive, but leave it to the pro's who can hit 500 balls a day to practice. Learn to improve your touch with the lesser required skill shots.
Just some thoughts from another old golfer.

How did you know my Chinese

How did you know my Chinese Zodiac sign was a Snake ; - ] hahahaha. Missed you and the rest of the folk too.
Sombre day here in NZ. First lady army mortality since the Vietnam war [in Afghanistan]. My best golf mate was her boss some time ago. Another Medic passes on to a better place.

Thanks Robert - always enjoy

Thanks Robert - always enjoy your comments on this swing.
Jerry

Hey old boy! Great to hear

Hey old boy! Great to hear from you.

I don't know how much

I don't know how much information you have. If you don't have the manual you should get it. If you don't have most of the videos for sale you should get some, or all, of them. They are much better quality than most of the videos that are free.
Just in case you don't have this video downloaded it comes in pretty handy for answering questions if you have a media player that plays in slow motion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
The camera angle is not the greatest and the side by sides are not in sync and the clarity is not very good on the shaft when paused but still it is a pretty valuable tool.
If you play it on the V1 program where you can draw lines and angles there isn't much you can't answer from it.
(As long as you understand that the camera angle can distort positions a little).

I think sometimes we just get

I think sometimes we just get in a little bit of a rut and a slight change, even of where, or whether, we are focusing can snap us out of it.
I'm in a bad rut on where I want my swing mechanics right now but for the most part I am shooting very good scores so it's a dilemma whether to start an overhaul. Normally I would wait until winter.

That's a keen observation

That's a keen observation about Tiger and his driver. Tough his sats are the best in total driving than he's had in years. My conclusions about his game is closer to the green. It is his wedges and more importantly his putting from 8-20 feet that has him unable to do better on the week end in Majors. While he may need to bomb it more, it's his so -so shots from inside 150 yds that puzzle me. Proximity to the hole and draining more putts will get more wins. Yesterday he made 5 putts over 10 feet and that's what saved his round.

My bad stretches lately have

My bad stretches lately have always been in the middle of the round. Seems like I really focus at the start, then get complacent, then wake up and realize if I don't buckle down I am going to throw the round away. ;-)
Amazes me how the pros can keep their concentration for 54 holes.

IMO the most important thing

IMO the most important thing in golf: TRUST
When I trust my ability to hit the shot I want to hit it's easy to keep the whole body correctly aligned.
The catch 22 is when I don't trust it there is a reason I don't (because I am not hitting it that well) and it's easy to get crisscrossed and that makes a bad shot likely and adds more reason to not trust the next one.
Then we get the seemingly never ending cycle until we get the trust back.

When I address mine it's more

When I address mine it's more like:
Where in the heck are you? Wide open woods and I can't find you anywhere. Found 20 balls in here and none of them mine...Wait...No this is the one from last week.

If I'm remembering correctly,

If I'm remembering correctly, he was focused on that spot when he walked in and took his setup, not once he began the swing. That was to be sure he maintained proper alignment, because turning to look at a target 250-300 yards away will throw off your alignment, while a point 8 inches away won't.

Excellent point, Amos. Since

Excellent point, Amos. Since the spirit of this blog is sharing, perhaps you could send DH a few. ;0))

Thanks for the reminder,

Thanks for the reminder, Surge. I could be the poster boy for changing spine angles. Seems to happen when I reach for that little extra in the BUS. As long as I don't get wide with my stance and maintain outward knee pressure I'm fine, but old habits will occasionally creep in and usually at the worst time.
Very timely tip as I've hit some fat irons lately and it's always trying for those extra few yards. Thank you.

Thanks Robert - can't wait

Thanks Robert - can't wait for Saturday. Tanglewood is highly rated - photos of the couse look great. it will be a good test for me. Hit em well friend.
Jerry

I've had one of those "Eureka

I've had one of those "Eureka" moments. While I was practicing yesterday afternoon, I realized that I was sliding too much left instead of just bumping on the FUS. As soon as I got my feeble brain refocused on "Up," all my problems went away. Now, my swing thought is "Up, and UP!" The first "up" starts the takeaway, "and" is the bump, and "UP!" takes me to the T-Finish. "UP!" also helps me keep my swing accelerating to the T-finish instead of slowing through impact.

As you have said many times

As you have said many times in the past DH, Ty ming and Tem po! I visited Singapore several times when I lived in Indonesia. Usually to renew my visa to re-enter Java.
Singapore is truely one of the cleanest places on Earth (at least where humans are found:) Of course Marshal law pretty much assures that no one misbehaves. Your snake discussion reminds me of when I spent 3 years on the North Oregon Coast living in a rain forest. I'm sure they were around but never saw snakes there. What I did see was lots and lots of spiders. Saw so many that I lost all fear of them. About once a week I would power spray (with a water hose not poision) my front stairway and the foyer area to move several spiders and their webs away from the entrance.
Sure enough a few days later more webs and friendly spiders would return. After a few months of this we would often just wave and say hi as we entered or left the house. However there was one that I would always kill or avoid apon encountering, the BROWN RECLUSE.
Fortunately the meetings were rare and niether myself, wife or three children were ever bitten.

That's for sure, though

That's for sure, though sometimes the rut is because of some element I'm forgetting in my routine, and the slight changes sometimes remind me of what it is.

No secret to not getting much

No secret to not getting much out of the game from 150 yds in. His short iron swing is too steep, partially from trying to hit cut shots. Too much spin and inconsistent ball flight kills distance control. To control the short irons lower flight and lower spin add up to control. The higher shots are also at the mercy of wind.

It's been going good, Steve.

It's been going good, Steve. I've been following the forum, just haven't had much to say recently.

3/4" at the SE base of South

3/4" at the SE base of South Mountain. Along with almost 1" in two storms last week.

Hey guys, I know that

Hey guys, I know that sometimes I get too far over on my left side (forward leg) and get ahead of the ball, usually ending in a push slice. Has anyone else experienced this? How do I hold back my upper body after the bump has shifted me left? The release onto my left side was something I started years ago to ease the pain in my lower back and have cut it way back but it sneaks in every so often..
Thanks for any help you can provide.

Liked the video, Steve. It

Liked the video, Steve. It just may help me solve a similar problem.
http://hittingthegolfball.com

Dear Surge and anyone else

Dear Surge and anyone else who knows the answer to this problem- I have an issue about with the pulling down of the club like a church bell rope after the bump has happened and there is a freefall of the club for a few inches. By doing the bump and pulling down at virtually the same time, my right side tilts a little more to the right , while my right elbow/upper arm also gets pulled into my right side at the same time.Almost a clashing of 2 cymbals and the result is either not enough room to complete the swing through to impact, or a steep path, invariably hitting behind the ball. Plus I might automatically start twisting my shoulders to get that little bit of room to get the club to the ball with all sorts of strange shots at impact. Plus I might end up flapping at the ball using my wrists because they will release too early if my arms don't have enough room to swing.Are there any drills to educate the movement of the right upper arm in the downswing?

So sorry to hear that. War

So sorry to hear that. War is a nasty business. You've been gone for awhile so I don't know if you are aware of Dick Lee's son being KIA. Dick has not been on in some time and is in our prayers.

I went to the range today,

I went to the range today, hit 100 balls , 4 pulled badly to the left , 3 sliced badly to the right , maybe 2 smothered fats but the others generally straight and several pushed slightly right (all the bad ones were with a 3 iron). I must have hit 40 balls with a 3 iron alone, so not bad at all considering I could never hit one for most of golfing life. Using the instructions from Surge about ensuring the forward arm above the back one (slightly bent at the elbow ), PLHR (actually very PLHR with almost 70%) on my right leg, and my shoulders tilted a lot more than usual (the optical illusion that your going to slice it right is really scary!). Also ensured that I firmed my grip from wrist to lower forearm but never above the elbow, plus the best bit was relaxing my shoulders (which I've never thought of doing before). Kept my head and chin more level with my spine angle and ensured that my head stayed relatively still on backswing and follow through and never moved in front of the ball until after impact . Hey Presto ! It all looks good and I'm hitting the ball a lot cleaner with a much better and easier vertical swing. Surge is definitely right that setup determines motion and somehow I think that is the magic ingredient that will cure most of our bad shots.

One of my favorite scenes

One of my favorite scenes ever. :) And exactly what I was thinking of when SimplyGolf posted his comment the other day.

Surge: great video as always.

Surge: great video as always. DJ: Good luck in the fall series - keep working hard, the results will come. Played good yesterday +6 for 14 holes with a triple and a double. Two birdies. Playing Tanglewood Saturday - real nice course, looks like it will be a challenge. Surge - I read the foundations manual about every day on my lunch break. really have been focusing on a smooth takeaway has worked pretty good. Question - during the setup where does the butt end of the point? It is hard to tell on the Front View picture (#7). on a lot of your video blogs it looks like your left wrist is cupped and the butt end is pointing to the middle of your body (could be the camera angle through). Thanks - and good luck to all of surge nation :).
Jerry - Warren, MI.

Hi Surge, This comment on

Hi Surge, This comment on glasses is true. I wear tri focals and I have to be constant,y aware of the different views I get of the ball. I have to conciously stay alert for change in perception as I make my swing.

A lot of people I teach

A lot of people I teach create that extra room due to either standing too close to the ball and/or have their head lowered so the chin is in the chest. The latter often is to keep the ball centered in the vision and is really a factor with glasses. Bi and tri focals a nightmare.

Great to hear Jim. Every time

Great to hear Jim.
Every time I decide that I don't have anything more to say something else pops up. Ha ha!
It's a beautiful day here today (couldn't be better). Heading out to play in the Tuesday points game.

Jerry,

There are two thoughts on this, and it depends what you're comfortable with. I prefer Greg MacDonnell's teaching the but of the club pointed just inside the left hip, forward of center. That sets the angles about where they should be for impact, with your hands leading the club head in. Some prefer pointing the butt of the club at the belt buckle, which can create a slight cupping of the lead wrist that needs to be adjusted as the swing starts.

The bump really shouldn't be

The bump really shouldn't be causing your upper body to get ahead of the ball. It is only about an inch bump with the hips. When that happens the spine actually increases it's tilt to the rear slightly.
Surge calls that the secondary spine tilt.
The knees are rotating and more lower body weight is being transferred.
The major shift in weight is behind the hands just as the back elbow is close to the ribs and just as the hands pass the back hip. Impact happens so fast from that point that the upper body hasn't even had a chance to move forward until after impact and then the body follows the hands to face the target.

That whole sequence is VERY hard to explain or describe and parts of it happen so fast it would almost be impossible to think about during the swing.
The best way to get the sequence is to skip some rocks across a pond.
P.S. If I was betting I would give about 10 to 1 that you are starting your swing with the upper body way too soon instead of just letting the arms fall until your right hand is even with your right hip from a face on view.

A clarification on why I post

A clarification on why I post videos:
It is not for me. I have them on my computer already.
It is not to demonstrate a "proper" swing and especially not to demonstrate a proper PPGS.
It is not for people to tell me what I am doing wrong. I know my swing better than anyone else, including what I would like to change and what I have no intention of changing because it works in my swing.

What it is for is so others can look at it and possibly see things that may trigger a thought on something they are doing wrong, or give them a new idea.
I don't try to copy Surge or DJ. Each of their swings works very well for them and I would like nothing more than to have either swing if it worked for me and was my swing.
On the lower body: Outside of my left heel usually (but not always) coming off of the ground it's not much different.
On my club being "laid off": Not really. My back swing just stops much shorter than Surge or DJ. If they had as short a back swing as I do their positions would be very close to mine.
On assumptions about videos: If the camera is outside of the target line the left arm will look deeper than it is, and the club head will look WAY deeper than it is.
Here are some comparisons that you may find surprising.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

My guess is that you're

My guess is that you're pulling down too hard and too early. Surge himself, when talking about the bell, usually prefers the image of an upside down desk bell, as you'd find at an old hotel. Your hand hits it and rings it at the top of the BUS, and that initiates the Bump and FUS. The difference in timing is perhaps a few milliseconds, but the longer you can allow your arms to drop freely before driving them through the impact zone, the more power you will generate and the more consistently you will strike the ball. I admit, this is a problem I fight all the time that is linked to really wanting to crush the ball. Aside from curing the chunks, learning to properly time the free fall and release will gain you more distance than you can get trying to hit the ball from the top, even when you manage to connect cleanly.

Caught up with that one and

Caught up with that one and wish him and his family the very best for the future. He and they are in my thoughts and prayers. God Bless a good man and his family.

Have you ever checked any

Have you ever checked any specs on your 3 iron? If you hit the 4 iron well but fall off of the cliff with a three iron it could possibly be the club.
Most people have more trouble as the irons get longer but looks to me like the trouble should be fairly progressive instead of a one club increase making that much difference.
Have you tried a hybrid?

Steve answered this pretty

Steve answered this pretty thoroughly. Releasing the upper body is important, through and after impact. The Stand Up AFAP after impact is an important part of how the PPGS reduces strain on the lower back.

Last summer when I was a half

Last summer when I was a half step away from stepping right on a timber rattler it at least showed me I could turn a half step forward into a two step sideways pretty fast.

A guy I worked with in Missouri was at a park and was on the toilet in an outhouse and got bitten by a spider right where you would least like getting bitten.

Interesting thots on more

Interesting thots on more feel than sight, Steve.

My memories of David Carradine and "Kung Fu"
are returning. "Is that you, Grasshopper?"

I wear eyeglasses for distance, but worn at address the ball position/distance is a smidge distorted. That "smidge" is a problem for me as I am constantly adjusting, trying to see the elusive "right spot."
The best golfer I know picks out and focuses on a single dimple. Wow, eagle eyes.
I'm thinking, odd as it sounds, of CLOSING my eyes once set at address++++All I would be left with is "feel."
Groove that feel a bit, go back to eyes open, and let er rip.Hmmmmm. Truth is, I've got little to lose.
Is that a whacked-out, left coast, crazy making idea?

Today has already proved an

Today has already proved an example of his unreliable short game. First hole a short iron 20 yards long, missed an 8 footer=bogie, second hole (predictably) hit his short wedge 20 yards short= bogie. Seems to have no clue from 150 in.
edit: Oh boy, he just winced after a drive on #4. Looks like he's tweaked his front (left) knee again. That sucks.Play on he will. Maybe he'll have a compact, better swing thw rest of the day.

I have read the responses

I have read the responses several times and thank you all. I am going to try focusing on UP to avoid too much focus on what, to me, will feel like hanging back. I will try and get a video on something other than a cell phone so I can see more detail.
Thanks for all the time you guys put in, I get so busy at work I get 3-4 videos behind at a time and have to play catch up. Love the swing and all the help!

I always have doubted that

I always have doubted that any "pinching" goes on when hitting a ball with a wedge. The steep angle of attack that usually makes a divot gives the impression that the ball was pinched against the ground but if there is any evidence that really happens I would like to see it. A 50 to 60 degree wedge striking a ball is going to send the ball upward way too fast off of the club for the ground to pinch it. I have no problem putting a lot of spin on wedge shots, or any other shots, if I choose to do that. Sometimes it is necessary but for me it's a last resort. Spin is way too unpredictable on shots where there are other options, like high soft shots that stop because of the lack of forward momentum, or using available roll out, even with lower lofted clubs.
I see people blow easy short shots all the time that required no spin at all but they go with the spinner anyway and the spin gets turned around on the first bounce and the ball goes well past the hole. Or the ball skids instead of stopping. On a lot of those shots a little pitching wedge or 9 iron chip would be much more predictable.
My philosophy has always been: Use only as much loft as necessary for the shot, and use only as much spin as necessary for the shot.

I find that a last minute

I find that a last minute check of the knees being parallel left will straighten my shoulders. They want to aim left when left alone.

Love the videos. Keep them coming. BTW, the club head whirls into the SBG in the first 3/4 of the back swing. I don't think that is of much importance. What is critical is to keep the butt end of the club from going there. Any where from the base of the neck to above the back shoulder will do and your swing fits within this range.

Hi Surge, Very good video on

Hi Surge, Very good video on address. I have until now placed the driver on the ground and sometimes notice that both my are bent at the elbow far too soon before the T finish. i now wonder if this is because I am 'compensating' on the down swing not with my spine angle but my arm length. Off to the range to try an address at the ball to restore some Driver confidence. Cheere

Everything Robert said is

Everything Robert said is spot on. I will add something I have said many times. There is no power applied downward at the start of the forward swing. Once the right elbow, right forearm, and hands start to pass the outside of the right hip is when any amount of power you care to apply can be applied.
Also a broken record from me: It is exactly like skipping a rock. It would never even occur to us to pull down on the rock. The start is only letting the arm fall to get in position to power through and up.

"Poster Boy"...Hmmm...I doubt

"Poster Boy"...Hmmm...I doubt if you can take that unwanted title away from me. Ha ha ha ha!
My personal opinion is that the spine has to be coming up at impact. That's how a rock on a string works. I would just like to somehow stay within 5 degrees throughout the swing.
On my best days I come close to that, and on my worst days I'm not even in the ball park.
The only thing that saves me on those days is that with the short irons (the "scoring shots") I almost always stay very stable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...