Ball Position - Woods To Irons

GREAT reply, Doc.  I was one who was trying to lift up the tree as high as I could.  When you collapse the right arm which I did, you can lift high but you also end up lifting up and out of your stance and more likely go too vertical at the top.    I would easily lose 20 yards on a 9 iron .  By keeping the left arm straight, you can feel the end of the BUS and end up in a 3/4 turn with the club vertical.  It allows me to know I have maxed out and it is time to bump and go.  You also can feel the LAG, whereas when you have collapsed the left arm, you lose the lag power factor.

I was having fun with my Doc-built driver on the range yesterday. Practiced working the ball with a nice right-to-left wind. None of my older drivers ever allowed me the control and consistency I have with the one Doc built me. High shots, low shots, fade, draw, hell, I hit a good, intentional, Bubba sized hook aiming at the back right corner of the driving range and turning the ball back to fly by the 250 yard flag in the left center of the range. 

But why would it be a problem with the 10.5* driver with the softer shaft and not with the lower lofted drivers with stiffer shafts?

Well put Lynn.I like the way you explained how you help limit your BUS. We know we need to hold that front left leg but the added flare used for restriction is interesting and may help me too. I'll give that a try soon. BTW Lynn have you looked for a local fitter concerning your lies yet? Be sure and do that and let me know how it goes.

If you're going to keep asking the same question and not reading the answers, we're going to stop responding and ask the support team to block you.

Don did not "add Revolution Golf." Don's former marketing partners split with him and they were allowed to keep the old site for a period of time and only release subscriber names to Don in portions. Everyone eventually should have been contacted, but it's possible that not all names were passed along. If you have your original invoice email, contact Customer Support here and they'll let you know the procedure for getting registered here and getting access to everything you paid for.

Impressive stuff, Robert, and makes the game a lot more fun.
For me, control was the biggest benefit with the driver Doc built.

With my old driver I had all of the shots you mentioned.  I just never knew when they were going to rear their ugly heads.  ;0))

For now I'm just happy to have a pretty good idea where the ball is going as long as the indian lines up the arrow where he wants it to go and executes a good swing.  At least I know if the result isn't good it was not the fault of the arrow.

Middle of march and it may hit 70 here, so chasing the little white ball is definitely the order of the day.

PMG and keep it vertical.

Surge,

I have watched the short game video a couple of times. Although it is not stated it appears to me that the open you have the club face for a particular shot te more open the stance. Is this correct. Perhaps you could address this for everyone's understanding.

Yes, it was very enjoyable. I played 10strokes better than last week, but still well above my avg. The left thumb/wrist is still a factor, but improving. At least I'm back to double digits instead of triple.

Very good advice Deb. It is tough for many to let go of the old swing. Even if we do "think" and even "feel" like we have converted the video tape of our own swing tells the tale and we see if we are vertical yet. 
Again, I am inspired to again return to basics as we get full steam into the spring golf season.
Thanks for your comment.
PMG the PPGS way!

Neck-and-neck, but you beat me. :)

My comment above mentions more likely to go too vertical, I meant too horizontal when you collapse your left arm.

Hope your round was enjoyable Terry. Let us know.

Joe, the key to using the same swing for all clubs is Hand/Wrist Position. One of the keys to the Peak Performance Golf Swing is a flat forward wrist and no hinging of the wrists. Once you set up properly with the arms hanging straight down and your hands under mouth (roughly), the club head will be the proper distance from your body. If you then concentrate on keeping your wrists firm and swinging the hands in a vertical (roughly) circle, you will swing through the impact position with the club head returning to the setup position without any guidance. Attempting to guide the club head is one of the things that causes you to have a different swing for each club.

Get the proper PPGS setup (you do have the foundations manual, don't you?) and then execute the swing with the club along for the ride. PMGAS

 Bill, a simple answer is the leading arm sets the radius of the swing. The forward arm is the the leading arm in the BUS and after impact the back arm becomes the leading arm for the FUS. This helps keep the radius of the swing constant and promotes the linear motion of the Surge swing as opposed to the rotational one that far too many endorse.

You two are just too smooth! good work guys.

I suspect Robert has manipulated his driver swing to counteract a higher MOI and therefore this manipulation has crept into his irons. I get far more consistency with
all my fairway woods due to the fact I tee off with a three wood and usually the
next shot is played with either a 9W-7W-5W, all of these clubs have the same size
heads which makes for more consistency. Would like to hear what other Surgites
think.    

Believe me, I had the same issue with my old drivers. I could hit a hook or a slice that would give me a second shot from the far side of a neighboring fairway, if it managed to stay on the course. I just never knew when it would happen.

It also helps if you practice the drills and the full swing (sans club) in front of a full-length mirror so that you can see that you're actually doing what you think you're doing.

Deb,  I have been following the Surge for over a year now and love it!!

Surge and all the others have helped me allot.

This is my fifth year of golfing and yes it is a challenge, but, I love it so much.  Stick with the Surge and you will love it as I do?

Good luck,
marilyn

Yes, manual-practise-video-play-manual-practise-video-play-etc etc, without
passion, commitment and some crying, you will get there, LOL. 

I've been "on the fence" about converting to the vertical swing for a couple seasons. After being a rotational golfer for 40 years, and not a very good one, I'm finally committed to change. What is the best way to make the transition? I own the videos and the foundations manual, which I have watched and read. The weather here in Ohio was great this past weekend, so I went out to give it a try. It was a disaster. I had so many swing thoughts in my head from both swing types, I was hitting the ball as badly as I ever have. How has any one else made the switch? Your comments are appreciated.

 You will likely have finished your round by now TM. Time difference between Ohio and NZ.You were playing while I was dreaming of playing ; - ) Hope that you had a good time and didn't stress the injured wing.
Played yesterday and the video on ball position, triggered a bell. I reckon I was bending the leading arm in the BUS. Hit the ball well and after back to Cactus drill and skipping the stone drill just before playing, made the difference. PMGAS Have a great next round. DH

That's correct, Roy. You open your stance in order to square the club face back up with the aiming line in its new, more laid open position.

Thanks Surge,    83 here today!!!   IM so tired, have been playing much golf!!!  My cart is getting all tune up/new batteries and all, (that is not so good) so I have been walking, I don't mind that at all either.  

What about hybrids, ball more to front or back? 

Thanks for all your help!

marilyn

The tenor of the posts certainly makes it sound like this is one of those "you don't do what you say, neener-neener" types, rather than someone actually interested in learning. The fact that the person doesn't seem to care that they don't actually understand what Surge is saying also demonstrates that.

sorry, "with" not "without".

DON,   Can you have a tip on the DRIVER swing. I'm confused. You state that the swing is the same as irons, ( catchers mitt, up the tree, etc ). However with the club being longer I can't find a consistant downward plain. My shots keep going to the right, or I ground the clubhead and the ball goes low and to the left.
   The only way I can achieve a straight shot is I have to choke up, move closer to and over the ball, Then my swing feels like I'm swinging an iron. But I don't get great distance.
  Can you demonstrate your driving swing, Maybe by visually seeing it, I can pick up what I'm doing wrong.
Thanks,  Joe from Mt. Arlington, NJ

Hybrids generally play a bit more forward than the iron they replace as you want to utilize as much of a sweeping swing as possible. In general, if the club is set square behind the ball, the shaft-lean should have the grip pointing between your zipper and your left pocket (for a right hander). That will put you in the right position relative to the ball.

Epiroska:  In addition to the other excellent comments offered, here are several things that helped me convert to the PPGS:  1) Practice the swing drills without a ball, at home, and work on just one small part of the swing at a time.  Doc Griffin mentioned a few weeks ago that it takes about 28 days to "ingrain" our memory with a new swing thought, so be patient.  2)  If you can, purchase a SwingRite from Doc Griffin; it is the best tool you can use to get the "feel" of the PPGS and it really helps ingrain a smooth swing tempo, attain proper lag and release. The Swing Tech is another great tool that gives you the feeling of the PPGS.  3) Get properly fitted clubs; they will make the transition much easier.  There are great PPGS fitters out there, and Doc has a "long-distance" fitting program that is exceptional!  4) Use a video camera and get an idea of how your swing really looks - you can see what areas need work and compare it to the "standard" PPGS.  

As I mentioned earlier, be very patient and everything will start to come together. I have spent the past two years working on this swing, and it is still a work in progress!   But, it pays great dividends; especially if your body can no longer stand the torture of a rotational swing.  Please keep us posted on your progress and as always, hit 'em straight!  R2

I suspect you are correct, Neil. I struggled for years with the 460cc drivers. Subconsciously, I would think the big head is heavier and I needed to tighten up to lift the heavier weight. I knew it wasn't really heavier, but I still tried to hit it harder. Now, I can swing the bigger club without putting extra effort into it.

I did an experiment (I love experiments!) at the range today, using only my drivers (both 10.5*) and my 2-wood (12.5*). One of drivers and the 2-wood are both from Warrior Golf, and, yes, I am one of those who fell for the over-the-phone-fitting. My other driver is an off-the-shelf Cobra. I use less effort with the Cobra and hit it 20-30 yards farther than the Warrior. With my good swings today, I was hitting 245-260 in the air (as measured by Bushnell). My bad hits were only going 200-215 in the air, which is the same distance I was hitting the Cobra last year. The interesting part is that I was hitting the 2-wood 230-240 in the air and getting 25-30 yards of roll. Almost all my shots last year would hit and stop. I like the smaller head on the 2-wood and am looking for a driver with a smaller head, like recommended by Doc.

I'm guessing that the biggest issue is with the kick point on the different shafts, but also possibly the flex (the regular shaft may be kicking too late to get the proper launch angle). The one Doc made for me has a KZG 9* head on a Fuji shaft that he (I think jokingly) refers to as a graphite telephone pole.

Bill,

I fight the collapsing lead arm constantly.  I get to the toeline fine, but when I start to lift it either starts to bend or my left knee collapses to allow me to maintain it in a straigt position.  Nither of those options lead to good results most of the time.

I've found the best way for me to deal with it is to flare my left foot a bit more than the 30* that Surge suggests.  It restricts my BUS and I know once I feel tension in my lead arm it;s my trigger to to transition to the FUS.  It has taken some work, especially when you feel the need to go for that little extra, but I have gained some accuracy and no loss of distance.

Hope the explanation helps.  Doc has it right.  It keeps me from casting the club and definitely helps with more solid contact. 

Deleted, duplicate

Hi Don,
I've been a fan for some time.  I notice that you and DJ and most professional golfers keep your leading arm straight or almost straight in the back swing.  I just can't seem to consistently do this, especially when I want to hit the ball further.  Of course that's when the rails come off and I loose everything in my shot.  I don't seem to have the flexibility that you have (but I'm working on it).  To help remind me to keep my arm straight I developed GOLFSTR the golf training aid.  [Check it out on my .com site] I call it the brain trainer.  The more great shots I make the less I need the GOLFSTR.  I've been using it in practice and during rounds of golf. I normally shoot about 90 but this winter I broke 80 for the first time ever (from the blues on a 130 slope 6,100 yard course).  Not bad for a 63 year old.  Can you comment on why the straight leading arm is so important in the back swing.

 Good morning Surge Nation. Heading out shortly for my second attempt this year.
I haven't had a chance for any practice between my first and this, so the expectation is low on score and high on fun.

Painted most the day Monday and changed out a water heater yesterday, so the hand and wrist are sore. I iced it most of last night but will still need to wear the brace for golf. A summer like day in Ohio coming in mid March.

Back to family odd jobs on Thur. Sure beats punching a time clock!

Check this one out, Joe S.
http://swingsurgeon.com/DailyV...
It's entirely likely that your current driver is ill-fit for you and is almost certainly too long if it's an off-the-rack club.

We've covered this subject in length of clubs.  If you have a short wrist to floor and try to swing a standard driver shaft (45 - 46) you can't swing it upright.  That's why most of us play shorter drivers.  The other point being we get much better control.

 Coach  Hope you had a great day.  Yes, wearing a brace will sure mess up your strokes.

But, you were talking about golf.

Dick

I was a paid subscriber to peak performance but loss it when you added revolution golf.!!  Dont you feel I should still get your video lessons that I enjoy that I paid for already???
Jamesondo@gmail.com

Have you used marker lines on the balls to see where you're actually making contact on the club face? Could be that it's striking too low on the face for proper launch. Could be a lot of things. As fast as your hands move through the impact zone, I'd think it could easily be that the shaft just can't keep up. If you swing slower, does it improve the launch angle at all? (I know it will not help with distance, but I'm wondering if it improved impact)

They got 1/4 of the names.

KZG has a new one on their site.

SP 700 Beta Ti Face

http://www.kzg.com/sites/cours...

It is a 355cc clubhead.

Think of twirling a rock on a string and breaking the tension in the string.  What happens to the rock?  It gets off course, looses speed, and you have to do all kinds of things to get it back on track.  The left arm can bend some but the more it collapses, the more it requires you to "unfold" which is "throwing" the club back out to start to come down.  You have virtually no power at this point and the club can easily be off line.