Today's tip is on where you should place your club relative to the ball at address. It comes from a question sent in by Bill Frazer, who was commenting on a recent tip I gave for those who chronically hit the ground behind the ball.
"Hi Surge,
I just viewed your video on hitting the ground behind the ball. I have found that the best solution to this problem is to make sure to address the ball with the head of the club just above the ball. If you place the club on the ground, doesn't it tend to want to return to the spot from which the swing originated? I find this especially beneficial on short chip shots - but I believe it helps with all clubs. Thanks for your wonderful golf instruction."
Bill, this may be working for you, but then I think there could possibly be some other swing problem at play here. With regard to the question about where to place the club, I believe you answered your own question when you said "If you place the club on the ground, doesn't it tend to want to return to the spot from which the swing originated?" Yes! That should be precisely what happens IF nothing else moves. You see, one of the most important results of a proper setup is that we set the correct spine angle by positioning the club at the place we want it to return to at impact. If you are hitting off a tee, then your club should not be resting on the ground but should be placed directly behind the ball. If you are hitting the ball off the ground then, by all means, that's where you should start the clubhead moving back into the Catcher's Mitt.
If you don't do this, then you are going to need to make an in-swing spine angle adjustment to get the club's sweet spot on the ball. That's a really tricky thing to do and it's not something I would recommend anyone try to perfect because it can lead to a whole host of bad results. As I have always said, "Goilf is a game of angles, the fewer the better" and we should always start our swing with the correct angle.
As you'll hear in the video, I believe a good number of people who have trouble hitting the ball consistently are not looking at the ball correctly. Either their eye is not looking directly at the ball, or their head is forward of it, or they may be looking at the top of the ball rather than the point where it meets the ground. And, if they are wearing glasses with bifocals or even tri-focals, they are inviting problems because it only takes a very tiny eye movement to move from one focal plane to the other and if this happens during your swing, you stand a good chance if mis-hitting the ball. If necessary, carry two sets of glasses with you when you play--one with monovision lenses for when you are swinging or putting and the other set you can put on when you return to your cart and need to mark your score or check the yardage.
Keep it vertical!
The Surge
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Comments
GuysTiger is 5 off the lead
Guys
Tiger is 5 off the lead he can't be playing that bad. -4 through 11.
I always like watching your
I always like watching your videos, Steve. And I'm afraid I all too often resemble that video, though more often my shoulders are aimed parallel left, but my feet end up aimed right.
I agree with you 100%. I just
I agree with you 100%. I just didn't want to get into the whole argument about the impossibility of "pinching" the ball with a lofted club.
On the SBG:This was a draw
On the SBG:
This was a draw swing, as are most of my swings. Surge himself teaches that a draw swing is flatter than normal.
If you are literally taking the SBG as the toe line (which I don't) you are correct that ALL of my swings go into the SBG, draws or not.
And I would have no desire at all to even attempt to change that.
I have yet to ever see even one good swing that adhered to that.
(P.S. If anybody has one I would like to see it and study it).
I take Doc's interpretation of the limits of the back swing and try to stay in that, except on draws. Anything that is within a "butt on a wall drill" or slightly crossing the wall are my best swings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
P.S. I doubt if you will ever see me have a completely vertical club shaft at the top again unless I decide to go back to a longer and higher back swing, and I don't see that happening. The shorter and lower my back swing is, the better and longer I hit the ball.
This brought to mind a
This brought to mind a wonderful lesson on addressing the ball: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Let me say before I start
Let me say before I start Steve. I know that you and some of the other stalwarts of the PPGS clan, only post comments and information for the rest of us souls on our journey seeking to be the best we can be.If my blatant cheeky comments hit a raw nerve, then that is down to my stupidity, nothing else. It was not meant to be criticism or a put down of your videos. I apperciate your input more than you will ever know. Your skipping a rock comments pointed me in the right direction, to name but one tip of yours.
I viewed the videos you posted above and see your point.So perhaps it is me who is not going far enough back or being mobile enough in the lower body? Will have a look at those things when the weather allows us to hit the hallowed turf again[It looks like tomorrow will be that day: - ]
Consider my cheeky ear to have been roundly clipped for being naughty Steve. Have a great day. Hit 'em long and straight Regards from sunny[now there's a change] NZ
For some people, looking at
For some people, looking at the front of the ball helps. For some people, it doesn't. On the tee, I like to place the logo of the ball where I'm going to strike it, to give me the point of impact and I have a much better chance to strike it solidly and squarely. But each of us is a little different. If looking at the front of the ball helps you get through it without hitting fat, then stick with it. That will certainly help keep your nose pointed at the ball.
Playing a course I haven't
Playing a course I haven't played before Saturday in Chattanooga. One good thing about playing in Chattanooga is that I can watch the course on U-Tube before I play it.
A local guy that Mike knows does a little show on each course in the area and puts them on U-Tube. Of course he has to split them up so they are short enough to put on U-Tube and as bad as my internet works it takes forever for me to get through the round. ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Copy that, Steve.Yeah, once
Copy that, Steve.
Yeah, once off the tee, and lost in the woods,
it's a whole different conversation. The politeness
at address sometimes yields nothing.
lol
Steve I too always appreciate
Steve I too always appreciate your video posts. we're close in age and though our swings are a bit different we sometimes share the same flaws and good points. Anyhow the subject of shoulder alignment causing pulls is a good one. I have had that problem off and on. I actually first learned about it being on of my tendencies a couple years ago in South Carolina when I went out there for the PPGS tounament at Old South. Surge pointed it out to me within my first few swings on the lesson tee. For me it was much more extreme than in your's given above. One of the best ways to 'fix it' is to simply get a trained eye to stand behind you. My wife corrects me all the time (and I'm okay with that as I ask her too). Sometimes you'll see them do this "On the range" on the golf channel. Saw it today with one of the pros (dang, forgot which one). The coach will simply take an alignment stick or club and hold it along the players shoulders just above the chest to check and correct the player. In my case it also helps me to not come over and push it which can also happen when the shoulders are closed at set up.
Was a great reminder Steve, please keep posting your swings. Using the lines is cool too, thanks.
"Reaching back" for a little
"Reaching back" for a little more almost always pulls us out of our spine angle. Then it's contortionist time to try to get back to the ball.
Stats: "There are 3 kinds of
Stats: "There are 3 kinds of lies. Lies, damn lies, and statistics".
(Mark Twain)
All of those little risk holes outside of the majors don't tell the story of laying way back behind everybody else coming down the stretch in the Majors.
Even Ernie was more than willing to go for broke.
Guys - I really have a hard
Guys - I really have a hard time getting any backspin on my wedges. My club this summer went to miniverdi bermuda and you really need backspin. No matter what I practice, I always pick it off the ground instead of pinching the ball to get backspin. Help-help
I catch everyone of them,
I catch everyone of them, Steve and enjoy watching them.My problem is I forget that I'm playing golf and play Twister instead.My shoulders are going for green,hips yellow, knees blue. :)
Tenemos que ver el golpe,
Tenemos que ver el golpe, sentir el disparo, gire la confianza el disparo y disparo.Si debe hacerlo a buen no.
Ha ha ha ha ha!How's it going
Ha ha ha ha ha!
How's it going Jim? Haven't seen any posts from you for a while.
BTW. Anybody having any trouble clicking on another person's avatar and seeing previous comments? Seems the only ones that are working are the ones I am following.
Quite right Amos, none of
Quite right Amos, none of those here.....But recently among other invaders, the security folk found a scorpion and a Brown snake, one of Australia's venomous snakes???A really venomous one.Closest I have been to a Cobra was in Singapore. Visiting friends after about 1/2 an hour went back out to get something out of my mate's car, turned around and there right outside the patio door I had walked through 30 minutes earlier, was the full shedded skin of a bloody large Cobra! Timing is just as important in other things as well as Golf! Hahaha
I don't usually "look" at
I don't usually "look" at anything when I am playing well. The ball is there and I can see it, and I know where it is, but I am not looking at it. Somehow I just know where the ground is and know to return the bottom of the club to the point where the ball joins the ground. It's not a visual thing for me, just a feel.
If I look at the front of the ball I automatically have a little bit steeper angle of attack. I actually use that on many types of chips and on those times when the ball is in the rough but suspended above the ground. If I just take a "normal" swing on those, with my normal feel and visual process I hit it high on the club face too often.
Looks like a nice course.
Looks like a nice course. Watching the swings was a little difficult. If I swing like that, I would never find a fairway or a green.
I saw him on the news.I
I saw him on the news.
I thought they were tougher minded than that in Texas though.
There was a monster of a boy like that that played on Mike's peewee team and nobody banned him. It was good for Mike hitting somebody that was impossible to move.
In the seventh grade there was an even more impressive specimen on his team. This kid had no fat at all and was 6'3" tall and 280 lbs. I honestly thought he was a college player the first time I saw him and wondered what he was doing walking out of the bathhouse with the seventh grade team. Then I thought he must be a coach.
Unfortunately for Mike's team he moved away after the seventh grade.
The other day I was 4 over
The other day I was 4 over after a double on the 5th hole. Finished even on the last 5 inluding a birdie at the last to feel okay with a 40. Sometimes we can turn it around after a poor start.
Hope your hip heals fast Mike. I've had my share of aches lately and it aint fun. Get better, I'm sure you will.
Up and Back.....
Up and Back.....
It's great to simply golf. +++++
Some great thots, Dragonhead,
very nicely distilled.
Don I remember a video of D.J
Don
I remember a video of D.J. giving instruction to a group and was asked what he focused on when setting up with the driver ,he replied that after his initial set up and swing thought of how he wanted the ball to fly and land he then fixed his eyes and concentrated on a point eighteen inches in front of the ball.I understand that this is something that many pros do can you talk us through the thinking behind this
sprog
Thx DH....I too am a ball
Thx DH....I too am a ball killer. This is my confession.
I'm far too hurried on my backswing and even on the FUS.I've got Plenty of club head speed, it's just too much far to soon.
....Simply let the club fall down the line...(A Smith thot)
So just for the heck of it, I am going to take a fewpractice swings with eyes closed, then go to the ball,unhurried........take a breath, and let it go where it goes.
DH, thx mate. I will slow it down at bit, andlet u know how it goes in week or 2.
What about looking at the
What about looking at the front of the ball.
Would that help to take a divot in front of the ball and lead to more solid hits?
Regards,
Ed..
Emieliolo que estás
Emielio
lo que estás haciendo al jugar en ese equipo te dije que ponerte manos a
la obra.Está jugando golf.hablaremos de esto cuando llegue a casa.
Too busy yesterday and just
Too busy yesterday and just catching up on the blog. Some great comments by many. Nice to hear from Dragonhead and Jim Wile. This subject of addressing the ball was in my mind this morning on my 9 holes before work. Hit the ball fairly well over all coming in with a 40. One double kept me from a 39, oh well. Was really happy with my finish on the par 5 # 18. Good drive. Laid up today to 115 yards. Ideal 9 iron distance. Nice 3/4 tight swing while keeping those knees and body quiet. Landed 1 feet in front of the flag and rolled up to 3 feet. Easy up hill tap in for birdie. Good morning. Played with two old guys from Guam and another from Mexico. All long time citizens and nice gentlemen.
That's not the way I meant it
That's not the way I meant it. ;-)
We all just need to be reminded that when we look at a video it's not always exactly as it appears, especially on the course. Every time we get a clip of DJ in competition we get people not knowing what they are seeing, and couldn't possibly know, like what shape it was, the camera angle, the trajectory or lie. Many things can cause a swing to vary from the book.
And that's for a pro.
We hackers are going to be all over the place more often than not. LOL
Surge - great explanation of
Surge - great explanation of the role of spine angle and ball position. Thanks. What brand of practice matt are you using in the Backyard Driving Range?
Edit: Wrong spot.
Edit: Wrong spot.
In one of my last rounds I
In one of my last rounds I had a tee shot that was hit perfectly well except I pulled it by about 15 yards. Just enough to get behind a row of trees and leaving me no shot at the green from 198 yards.
One look at the video showed me why I pulled the ball (independent from any of my normal swing flaws).
I thought it was so clear an example of the toe line being fine, the target line being fine, both parallel to the other, but the shoulder line ruining the shot, that I made a video showing the lines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
P.S. I don't know if anybody gets anything out of the videos I make or not. There is plenty there, both good and bad, to learn some lessons from but I'm not sure if enough people watch to be worth the time.
Booger, your cracking me up!
Booger, your cracking me up! At least you're playing some golf:)
When Dragonhead first
When Dragonhead first mentioned that I went out and tried it and it made very little difference if my eyes were open or closed as long as I grounded the club. With the club hovering I had no idea where the ball was and didn't do well at all.
It was sort of like driving a nail with a hammer in the dark. The only way I would be able to hit the nail is to let the hammer rest on top of the nail and then remember that spot. If I hovered the hammer somewhere over the top of the nail I would probably miss it most of the time.
thank Surge,,,,that is sure
thank Surge,,,,that is sure me sometimes, not looking at the ball and why do we do that? also, sometimes I pull up, don't ask me why, because I don't know? when I have a bad hole, that is it....sometimes it is hard to stop also...
anyway thanks for all of your help..tomorrow a new day...
marilyn
Hi, I used the eyes closed
Hi, I used the eyes closed technique whilst in China.It was to stop me trying to kill the ball! I was hitting at the ball at a great rate of knots. I found that with my eyes closed 'feel' was as you said all that was left. It stopped me having too much movement in the lower and upper body and helped me co-ordinate my then swing.Have not used it of late,but would glady revert to it if I find myself trying to beast the ball again. Like many things, if it works for you as it did for me, then use it. If not discard it.
Not left coast crazy idea at all. We once used a rotational swing[now that was crazy and painful for many of us] before being shown a better direction from Surge and the clan. I will be forever grateful for the PPGS Swing.
Tomorrow or Friday is looking like we might get out and about weather permitting. Hit it long and straight mate
Steve: Hope this works --
Steve:
Hope this works -- I tried to reply to you last night and the blog refused to accept it!!
Amos
After watching this, I guess
After watching this, I guess I still would like clarification on eye "on the ball". Do most of you better players of this swing look at the back of the ball, where it meets the ground, or top (wrong, according to Surge)?
I've been playing this style for close to 3 seasons now, and because I still "hit" the ball rather than swing a club, I feel I will never be a great ball striker. To add, this topic brings up my worst element, spine angle maintenance. I miss thin the most, but can chunk fat ones at times with tons of turf, small ball flight. But generally, over the years pre ppgs and now, I have mostly been a thin ball hitter, many off the bottom of the blade or driver head - low 'n ugly!
Robert I think I slept on it
Robert
I think I slept on it wrong. Not feeling to bad now. Headed to the range tonight after work to see how it holds up. I think it taught me a lesson though. That being I have struggled all season with the driver and woods Saturday I was down the middle with all drivers hit and long. One of the youngsters in my foursome booth days hit his 3w 275 carry off tee and driver further than that I was past him a few times driver vs driver and I let him know it to. In jest I think the difference was that the hip being tight to start made me swing within myself which resulted in straighter longer shots even in the irons until the last 3 holes. Only if I could bottle that feeling. I guess practice, practice is all we can do.
Those were the days......
Those were the days......
Reminds me of a time I was
Reminds me of a time I was fishing with a friend, back when we were teenagers. I was walking out a fallen tree over the river with my friend following me. About 10 feet out, the tree dipped into the water. I looked to check my footing for that step, and a cottonmouth looked back at me with a "Go ahead, punk, make my day" look. I very carefully advised my friend to get the ---- off the log.
"Never" is a long time. ;-)I
"Never" is a long time. ;-)
I don't know what the better players do but I use what some call a "soft focus" where the ball in the center of the picture, but I'm not really looking at the ball.
Even with many swing flaws I can return the bottom of the club to where it was at address, so I have to be careful on balls that are teed up or sitting up on top of the grass (a constant at the course I play the most) and make sure I hover the club where I want it to return.
More feel than sight for me.
Edit: I will say that I go so much by feel that remembering the feel of the club on the ground is extremely important to me. For that reason I am not as good any time I have to hover the club as I am when I can rest it on the ground (and it's not even a close contest). I can hit balls all day long off of a hard surface or hard ground and never miss good impact. Hovering above the ground on a tee, the grass, or hovering in a bunker my skill level goes way down. Wish that wasn't the case but it is. The natural "hoverers" at our course have a big advantage right now with the grass so long and thick. The rest of us are just trying to adjust somehow.
Ha ha! Maybe so but he shot
Ha ha! Maybe so but he shot 10 under for that round. I doubt very seriously if I could do that. ;-)
He made it look so easy that I am going to really feel bad if I don't have a pretty good round.
I played on our 7th/8th grade
I played on our 7th/8th grade team and one school we played had 2 brothers on the team 1 played fullback and probably weighed 300 and his brother played offensive tackle opposite me on defense and weighed over 200. I weighed 220 the fullback would never run the ball to my side and it would take half our team to drag him down after 10-15 yards. I started working on his brother pretty hard and at one point I had him crying.His BIG brother came up to me said he was going to run over top of me I told it was about time and he tried I put him down in the backfield by myself. We found out the school was cheating they were both freshman in High School and they ended fore fitting all there games.
Howdy Amos, Hope you're well.
Howdy Amos, Hope you're well. Did you guys get slammed by the rain storms too as we did in LV.? Hope these rains have put some of these fires out.
Surge here wasn't necessarily
Surge here wasn't necessarily talking about where to look, but where to hold the club when you address the ball. Also, the phrase, very intentionally, is Nose At Ball. If you point your nose at the ball, you don't have to worry as much about where to look.
Thanks, I like them,,,
Thanks, I like them,,,
Just watched some of your
Just watched some of your swinging on videos Steve. Where do I start? hahaha! IMHO you are a tad laid off at the top and too far around with your lead arm. My overall impression is that your lower body is too mobile during the backswing.Having said that, it all seems to come back together in the end, giving you a powerful strike on the ball.
Would love to see you doing a John Daly on David Feherty, by smacking a ball out of his mouth hahahaha. Have a great day and enjoy your golf.
With luck tomorrow or Friday[our time]we will have the opportunity to do so as well : - )
Looking forward to watching Golf from Gleneagles,Auchterader,Scotland at the weekend.Aucthterader was my stop off point en-route from Glasgow to Inverness.Best Fish and Chips in Britain!
Lynn; I do not belive they
Lynn;
I do not belive they have rattlesnakes in either China or New Zealand!
However, Arizona has an abundaqnt suppy!! LOL
Amos
Sounds as though you have one
Sounds as though you have one of my old problems. If you are set up correctly PHLR [Pre Loaded Heavy Right] and you are thinning or chunking the ball,ie, thumping the ground, then there could be a variety of causes.
1) Your stance is not stable enough and you are moving back in the BUS [Backward Upswing]and/or swaying forward on the FUS[Forward Upswing]
2) You are not transitioning correctly in the FUS but are 'attacking' or hitting at the ball through impact.
It sounds as though your spine angle does not change in the FUS, as it MUST for the clubhead to travel straight down the ball to target line and stay on it after impact. Recently I was guilty of just such a transgression. A silly little tip has almost eradicated that completely. It is simple. Once set up correctly, my very, very minor 'twitch' of my rear [right]knee and I start the BUS [as Surge says in todays video]lifting the club up almost immediately into the top of the BUS.Then I dip my head just a smidgeon to the right and down, as I whip the hands through the impact area up to the T Finish FUS and recoil. I say to myself, "UP AND BACK" or "Club UP Ear Back". "Up" on the BUS, "AND" as the club reaches the top of the BUS and starts to fall due to gravity, "BACK" as I whip the hands through up to the FUS.
I don't have to even think about the hip Bump When I do this.
Hope this helps.
ed,roob What divot? We don't do divots if we can help it. That would be hitting down on the ball. PPGS is about hitting UP on the ball.
ROTFLOLYou tell him Chiquita
ROTFLOL
You tell him Chiquita
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