Club Fitting Series with Doc Griffin: Shaft Length

 Just back from the practice ground. We only took a tube of balls and a 9iron each.My tube all Srixon AD333's. The object of the exercise for me was to further improve and ingrain the 'skipping a rock' hip bump. Did I succeed? Absolutely. Started at 90mtrs 100yds gave or take. Balls were going over the pin to the back of the green. Moved back and thought at the 100mtr marker that would be hit. Same result. So further back again. Had hit only 10balls up until this time. Then I hit my straps, couldn't believe it. Top third of the green from 125mtr mark + 16paces with the 'rock skipping' action in full flow. Now that is more like it. At no time did I try and whale the bejaysus out of the ball. So a happy camper.
Fog forecast for tomorrow!!! Are they kidding me? Hahahaha.
Good luck to your good lady finding a suitable job soon. She has a lot of Surgite fans praying for her. God Bless from a grateful DH and his lady.
PS She is an absolute novice, but this afternoon was consistently hitting the 9iron 80 yards accurately and she hasn't made a full swing yet!!! Wait until she gets the bump going yeeeha!

I keep meaning to go through my set and check them when I'm at the range, but I forget every time. My Doc-made driver, of course, is perfectly set for lie angle.

As my dear old Dad said on many a golf outing concerning short, "never up,never in".

Your club head is quite sufficient enough to play them.  Most on here do not have enough club head speed to warrant it.

Are you wearing shoes or bare feet?  Also are you standing straight up or bent over with knees bent as if addressing the ball?  Thanks.

Doc, I'm especially interested in your thoughts in how we compensate (or adapt)
to achieve a desired outcome with available resources. Yes, the mind is amazingly
creative, resilient, adaptive. Even with the wrong gear, we try to make a go of it.

A rotational swing seems a good example of constant compensation or adaption,
since both the body and physics are compromised and not being engaged most strategically.
RS results cover the spectrum, of course, from just incredible to just plain ugly.
It seems rotational swingers actually DO have the correct tools for what they are
attempting to do. God bless 'em.

Bringing conventional gear to the PPGS creates a bit of a challenge.
PPGS also requires (re) learning, compensation, adaptation, but
is made more difficult when conventional gear, designed for something different,
is introduced. The PPGS must benefit and progress when the correct tools are introduced. (BTW, how often do you actually lengthen a shaft?) I know this
is all self-evident. I suppose this is simply therapy for a guy that is making a go of
it with compromised tools, and enough "success" to stay engaged.

For many of us, choking down and playing with conventional, mainstream
equipment will have to do for now. We compensate and adapt and enjoy
while giving it our best shot.  Any thoughts on adaption are welcomed.

PS-just read Steve Smith's entry below. Thanks for those thoughts, Mr. Smith.
That's learning and adaption in action.

 If after a couple of holes I know its going to be one of those days and am playing army golf I will to the bag for a well played ball instead of losing a new 4.00 golf ball. 

 Robert F, Checked my lie angle on the driver yesterday, using a tip from TMedley I noted a few days ago.
Drew a line on my ball with a whiteboard marker.Then addressed the ball [choked down to 42.5"] and hit several balls. Imagine my surprise to find the red lines vertical on the sweetspot and the balls went dead straight!!!A million thankyous to TM
For those who didn't read his blog: If the line is angled or leaning towards the heel of the club,the lie angle is too flat.If it leans towards the toe, it is too upright.
I love this blog and daily videos. Off quickly for my morning porridge with manuka honey before I attract some grief hahahaha. PMGAS
Will watch the video after breakfast ; - )

Great bounce back round, Amos! Can't wait to hear about Wednesday round, fairways & greens!

 The Epiphanies, is that a Catholic or protestant denomination. Sounds like a more modern movement.

And they were all together in one place when the Epiphany fell upon them.

PMG

 Robert Meade, Sounds to me like you would be suited to a Titleist NXT Tour ball. Ever tried them?

 Bill:

He actually says it is taken at the military Attention Position, which is standing straight up. The reason is, that will translate to the proper length club when your are in the address position.

PMG

It did but it's alright for you to get credit now.  LOL

Doc:  Have had this on the machine for a couple of weeks, am just now viewing it and is it a revelation.  I, underline "I", am the guy you mentioned (or my clone) who raises up when he strikes the ball.  I know I do it and I work hard at staying down on the balll.  My mantra, "Stay down, Grandpa".  I am convinced a plane ticket to your shop would be worth more than any video or instruction set I could find.  For whatever reason, Denver has no, (that I can find) qualified fitters.  If you will send me your address, I will start putting things together to make and appointment, bring my present sticks, and let you "do your thing".  Thanks.  Bruce 

Dick:  Your blog just reminded me of something that an aging Bob Hope said when asked how he was playing,"If this was a prize fight, they'd stop it."  lol  Anyway, keep on playing, eat some chocolate and enjoy life.  Hit 'em straight!  R2 

 Pig in a poke, reminds me of an old farmers joke. Too rough for the blog. Let's just say, if it's in a poke you don't know if you're getting a pretty one or an ugly one. Make up your own joke.

PMG

And here I thought cougars liked young men. ;-)

If you're using the PPGS swing you really need to see a PPGS qualified fitter.  Length DOES matter.  I had Doc build me one using his "long distance fitting".  Far and away the best driver I ever owned.  Less money than some of the big name of the shelf drivers.

Doc, Great opener for the series! I think after I wake up later in the day I'm going to download this one off the tube so I can edit that snippet from the 2:30+ mark. That is surely headed towards the classic vintage file.Nice cap you have there too, you have any in white? I want one.
Thanks again and look forward to the next.
 For everyone else, like RM says nice to see everyone cracking jokes, you all had me in stitches. I'm into day 21 of this outage and got word today that to keep "burn-out" at bay, they are considering a rotational forced shift off soon. Since I'm the steward I technically won't get one but will eagerly await a nice warmer sunny day and take a shift off. I already have a substitute steward lined up for the occasion. ;)
 Stay in the present.

Doc, is there a "critical ratio"of club-length to arm-length?

SG, sounds like you are among the many who, for now need to use your "conventional mainstream" eqipment 'for now'. That eing the case, might I suggest at least doing the absolute minimum which would include #1, getting your lies checked and adjusted and #2, having new grips of your choosing replaced on the entire set.
Many out there may say that they'll ust wait until a full fitting and club build to do anything at all. However while waiting to do it all right you are doing yourself a major injustice if you are playing with clubs that possibly have lies that are too upright or too flat. This of course can be a major cause of hitting your shots right or left even IF you are doing the Surge swing close to correct. If your lies are off you are making compenstaions for it subconsciously. Among your whole set you likely have some clubs too upright and others too flat. No wonder we have clubs we love and clubs we hate in our set.
Lie adjustment is one of the cheapest yet most important things we can do right now to vastly improve our shots results.
Be sure and watch this. If you have not checked and corrected your lies in the last couple of years it is a must do now.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Doc, what are the symptoms of a shaft that is too short?

No worries.

Question, what if you choke down an inch or so on the shaft. How does that effect what you should have for a shaft length.

 A picture is worth 1000 words, A video is priceless!

PMG

 http://www.docgriffingolf.com/ has all the information you need.

 Robert

In my old worldly days, I always said I wanted to get shot by a jealous husband when I was 105.  I don't live or think like that any more, so I will settle for going on the course, right after an eagle putt, or at home in bed surrounded by my kids and grandkids.  Either way, I am happy and satisfied that I am assured of where I will spend eternity.

Got to be some great golf courses there,
Dick

 If thy Driver be too long, thou shalt simply choke down on the grip.

From the weekend fitters Bible, chapter and verse unknown.

 Nothing more frustrating than having a putt center cut, come up short. We all do it, even the pro's. We know a putt not getting to the hole has No Chance to go in. We know we Have To get it to the hole, but we fail to do so way too many times. Even long lag putts are most often left farther away, by distance, rather than the left or right line, which often leads to those nasty 3-putts. A putt 1" left or right of center still goes in. A putt 1/8" short does not.

Distance is often more critical in eliminating 3-putts than is the line. I for one am guilty of not practicing it enough and focusing too much just on the line when on the practice greens and during play. That's another good reason to putt to a coin or tee on the practice green rather than focusing on a hole. Try to get the putt 6 to 12" past the coin for optimum speed and distance. Anything within an inch or so left or right was a made putt.    

A stroke is a stroke, whether we hit it into the pond, or left it 1/8" short on a putt.

PMG

 Dick
My friend I try to keep up with the best..
I'm just setting here nervously  awaiting my Don video evaluation. I guess he well either fix me are tell me to take up  bowling wait that may not work with arthritis in my left ankle.LOL

Actually, I think I was the one who gave you that tip a few days ago. ;-)

One of my favorite  classic Doc lines during my fitting came during his ball discourse and what would work well for my speed. " 'Swoosh' just shoot yourself now!" Your link reminded me of that one, Steve. I play Bridgestone B330 seeing how at Cumberland I'm liable to be bouncing one or two down the road and it seems fitting,lol. I may give the ProV1x a test spin here on my next round though.

Gblaisdell:

These links will explain How To. Good luck
.
MEASURING CLUB LENGTH PROCEDURE
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/TW...

MEASURING WRIST TO FLOOR PROCEDURE
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/TW...

The subject that you have brought up is really broad.  To say that there are specific compensatory actions for specific equipment maladies is impossible.  There just aren't.  Different people will do different things.  I've seen people compensate for clubs that are too long by coming over the top, raising up the torso and pulling back, raising up on their toes, hitting pulls, pushes, moving their feet, all kinds of things.  So, it would be a pretty daunting task to give you concrete answers to your question.  I

I can say that rotational swingers don't necessarily have correct equipment either just because they rotate.  However, the rotational swinger can swing a longer club easier than a player with a vertical swing.  However, if the club is too long for their physic they still will have difficulty in hitting good shots as the accuracy will suffer as well as good solid strikes in the center of the club face.  They generally will not be able to muster the same club head speed if the clubs are too long. 

I hope this gives you a bit of an idea of what a fitter is up against in a fitting. Part of our job is to identify swing issues that are a possible result of improper equipment.

The better distance with a longer club is indeed why they sell 'em with longer shafts at the golf store. They think that us hitting maybe one out of ten longer will be enough to intice us to buy a shinny new and far too expensive new driver in hopes of gaining those extra yards off the tee. Problem is, one out of 10 sucks and the other nine are in the woods, condos and next neigborhood.

 Are you talking golf? :)

I believe woods are extremely difficult to alter the lie angle significantly without damaging them, so I'm sure most reputable places don't even want to try.

ULJ:  I've said this before; been there, done that, moved on!  I played the 1-Irons for about 2 years.  Mine were built to the length of a regular 7-iron. They are okay, but simply cannot compare to custom-built clubs.  Don't waste your hard-earned money on single length clubs.  Get properly fitted by a PPGS fitter or use Doc's Long-Distance Fitting Program (which is what I did).  The cost is very, very reasonable and you will play better golf than you could ever play using 1-Iron clubs or any off-the-shelf name-brand set from a big-box store.  Hit 'em straight!  R2  

Didn't the Apostle Trahan write an epistle to the Epiphanies?