One-Piece Vertical Takeaway

Steve:  I feel your frustration.  This video explains the whole clock thing perfectly, yet some folks just don't seem to get it. :-((   R2 

Robert, do you have ice plant (If I remember the name correctly) on your courses there in Vegas? That shrubby looking thing behind the golfer stuck by the cactus sort of looks like it. I took up golf 45 yeras ago in the Air Force. My first golf was played on the AF Base desert course in Victorville California and when your ball hit that plant after an errant shot. it would stick in it and not fall out. Talk about tough lies.

Fred, here's a riddle for you:

At the top of the backswing, Surge says the club should be pointing at both 12 o'clock and 1 o'clock.  How can this be?

Answer:  It should point at 12 o'clock when viewed DOWN-THE-LINE and 1 o'clock when viewed FACE-ON.

Surge has never said it should point at 12 o'clock when viewed face-on.

Please re-watch the first 2 minutes of the video.

Great one Surge, Have you been reading my mind!
I really have struggled with this and cannot emphasis enough to you folks how important what Surge is saying here to cracking this swing.
Timing is also very important too, as too slow and you will probably suck the club in and get very laid off like I was really doing. Or the other extreme for me is like what Surge say's and making it two part, as in two angles.

When Surge shows the 'in the mitt & up the tree', or 'turn to the toe line and its all lift' does look two part to me and I would say has delayed my progress.

So would suggest to Surge that whenever he shows these examples and uses these phrases does so with the smooth swing like in this video.

Best Regards  

Terry,
The weather man has shown Ohio getting pounded by a late winter the last week or so. You able to get out of your igloo or are you still hibernating?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Hi Kevin, I am struggling to see how that could be possible and still generate power, Surge is laid off at about 10-11 oclock of the FUS, his hands are perpendicular to each other but not to the ground through out most of the swing. But I know this is a parameter to aim for to keep you from getting laid off and not a actual fact.  Also doesn't the slightly laid off whipping action at the top create lag and the power. Because I sure know that when I feel like I have dropped straight down I feel quite powerless.
They are to the toe line and at the top but every where else the wrists are not and surely cannot be as the arms/shoulders move around in the shoulder joint.

And this is where everything shouldn't be taken to the extreme otherwise it can limit your progress.
The closest I have got to a good vertical position when I tried and recorded myself the other night was when I got the club to the toeline/slightly beyond fairly quickly then lifted. When I try and do it slower and smoother I seem to get very laid off, obviously the more vertical you get the harder or more power you need to generate to get it there, as a vertical club on the way down is light, on the way up it is heavy!

Funny thing Steve, After reading the first few lines of your post I watched your bulky swing first and thought to myself, "that actually looks better and smoother than I have ever seen Steve swing." Then I read the rest where you added that you thought it might be your new swing. It really looked awesome.

Down here, means south of equator, not south of the border

Bob:  The 3/4 turn is the amount of forward shoulder turn we make during the BUS (backswing).  We only turn until the club shaft is parallel to the toe line (in the mitt).  Then we lift straight up (the tree) as we complete the BUS.  You will know when the turn is completed since the bicep of your forward arm is near your chin.  If you turn any more than this, the club will quickly get "laid-off", or in the SBG (sacred burial ground).  From an engineering standpoint, the Surge calls this a 3/4 turn (70*) vs a standard rotational turn which is 90* or more.  If you want to split hairs, it is really a 70*/90* turn or 0.7777777777  :-))  (I'm an engineer too).  R2

Yeah, time differences. :)

Anyway, you can see the difference between Tiger's rounds by the fact that he was under great control the first three rounds, and hit only 5 greens and 2 fairways in his final round.

Surge mentions key words at about 3:50 on this video, "move lift." There are 3 ways to do it. Active forearm rotation like DJ, passive like Doc and Robert M, and a combination like Surge.

The active rotation at the start means a lot of kinetic energy in the club head to counter act to keep it out of the SBG. The passive rotation has the least kinetic energy to counter act and the middle way combo somewhere in between depending where the rotation occurs.

What works for my swing is to turn the shoulders to move the kinetic energy parallel to the toe line and starting an inch or two into the club head motion start the vertical lift with the back hand into the mitt. My check point at the mitt is the shaft angles 45* to the toe line and the lift has brought the front wrist into dynamic balance where it doesn't change except for the forces of the club head's kinetic energy on it. This move fold the back leg of the triangle at the elbow into the position where it is in a dynamic position to resist the club head's desire to visit the SBG. From there it is continuous lift to the bell and bump.

I use a couple of more images as references; the left arm as a door that starts ajar depending on the club swinging open to the toe line and a vertical wall that drops down from the base of the neck that I imagine the butt end traveling on through out the BUS. The latter image works really well to compensate for my height.

Lookin good Roger. Alot of wrist &   elbw  action going on at the top of the back swing & the club looks like its nearly hitting the back of your neck. Nearly a chopping action like my wife does. Need to do the beer can,[ or is that wine glass ] drill & see if you get any down the back of your neck. Palms perpendicular throughout the swing & swing through the ball ,dont hit at it. Keep it up mate, its comin together, your gettin good yardage

To get a handle to answer it is necessary to tell which of the three views you are talking about; down the line, face on and from the target back to the golfer. 10-11 o'clock will be different for each.

Keith....

WTF!

Nows not the time to quit. Been with SSGS almost a year now. Still a work in progress. Tee ball FINALLY coming around. Have you been fit by Doc? I too have no certifed instructor in Chi Town. Been dependent on Steve S, Robert M, Robert F, R2, T and even yourself !

Soon will have balls to submit a video.

Stay away from the Dark Side. SSGS is where you need to be.

Phillip

Thanks very much mate, will cheak it out

It may not be relevant but the few holes I was able to follow DJ on shot tracker the last 2 weeks, he seemed to be flirting with or in the left rough a lot off the tee. Let's just hope it's nothing more serious than a little off season rust, or something that the Surge can put right with him on the practice tee. It's a long season and I'm sure he will bounce back.

Yep. Cheesy British science fiction is a completely different language.

When do you call it a day on a swing?

I went to the range tonight and was rubbish, just sort of felt lost, hit all sorts of shots.
I don't feel like I can get to the top of the BUS correctly.
I have been a Surgite for 15 months now but my issue is, I am probably never going to be able to have lessons from a PPGS instructor so how will I ever really know or learn the swing so because of this I am thinking of stopping with this swing, get it out of my mind and seek instruction from the local pro.
I feel like I should have made more progress lately and results are just the same regardless.

So what do ya do?
Cheers Keith  

Down here??
Guess this whole subject was enough to get us all itchy! Ha ha!

Well put Steve.

Thanks for the kind words. Feeling the swing and swinging the feel is a great mantra. Sadly my feels are rooted in a structure that generates the visual images that create the feeling of the swing and the swinging of that feel.

The manubrium is pretty much the same as the base of the neck and if a vertical plane is created through it would create idealized cactus drill positions for the swing.

The basis of my SGWizardry and ability to maximize the scoring opportunities is getting the eye line parallel to the aim line. The toe line is important but is a lesser aiming point for me. Must be bassackwards being oriented from the putter back to the driver while most are from the driver to the putter.

BTW my putters are all bent to the legal limit so a line drawn up them from the down the line view will go through the manubrium and the base of the neck. This lets me see where the arc/circle of the butt end should swing parallel to the aim line.

You state that your method feels the swing because your arms are visually close to the arc/circle. Depending on one's height and spine angle the toe line is not always in view as strongly as it needs to rely on being the base of vertical circle that works for me.

That brings up the view that is seldom ever used in golf instruction. We learn better through looking down at the ball at an angle. The down the line and face on views are oriented to the instructor not the student. I see a need to include the overhead view which is harder to create physically but shows much more powerfully where the club needs to be swung.

Enough for tonight. Hasta la bye bye!

Thanks Surge,

Heading out now for practice range, going to be 60 here today!!  Hope all goes well.
Will try and remember to swing good up the tree!!  IM so happy it is 60  outside for 1-31-12!!

Thanks,
marilyn

They had a sale for $19.99 as I recall for the V1 Pro Premium back around Thanksgiving when I got a copy. I don't know how often they run a special, but it may be worth checking in on their web site from time to time.

Surge what is a good reference point to move your hands to in the back swing? I done the ears but have found that my eyes work best or is this different for each person?  

Yes, I am getting out and about, but can't do to much with one arm. Just got back from my first follow up Dr visit. They cut the original splinting and dressing off, took x-rays to make sure it was all looking good, and put a hard cast from mid fingers to a couple inches short of the elbow. It needs 4-weeks until removal, and then therapy begins.

It is actually about 60* here today and I am really wishing I could swing a club or even putt a little. At least I can wipe my own rear end, I guess it's the little things like that which count. Not that mine is so little. Hopefully, I'll be able to use my left thumb in a proper grip this year though.

Thanks for the igloo building lesson. Hopefully I'll never see enough snow in Ohio to even build one. The long range for my area looks good for the next two weeks. I could be playing in shorts and a T-shirt today, Oh Well, such is life.

Keith, what I have found is that the amount of power I get is inversely proportional to the tension in the BUS. For me (and not everyone else), if I start the turn with my right shoulder and control the angle of the shaft with my right hand, I get much more vertical and more effortlessly than if I start the motion with my left, as Doc does. Presuming that I get vertical without increased tension, I can then drop into the slot quite easily and accelerate through the ball to the T-finish. The more laid off that I get at the top of the BUS, the more I will swing toward the ball, with more toward an outside-to-in swing and casting of the club. From the vertical position and dropping the butt of the club (my hands) toward the toe line, I delay my release longer and generate more power and speed through the ball. When I do it right, I feel a significant increase in club head speed as my hands pass my rear (right) hip. The timing of the release at the end of the "drop into the slot" presents a fair amount of difficulty, but once you find the release/acceleration point, the power is there and quite effortless.

I found with my swing what blocked getting to the top was something very simple. The grip was good, the Master Setup Position good, oops a kink.

I did not have the club properly under my nose. The butt end was farther away from the toe line than the base of the neck which caused moving the club away out to the aim line and then a compensation of standing up to create the width for the arms to straighten out. The compensation also caused the shoulders to be left of the target and swinging way into the SBG in the FUS.

Once I corrected the club position at address it became easier to swing the butt end down the toe line and vertical once through the mitt. Several simple keys helped.

At address I could see the butt end of the club and the circle it would make up to the cactus drill position.

Second was moving the club head through the mitt with a slight roll of the forward wrist so it lost the droop at address and was in dynamic balance at the 45* angle between the middle line of the H and the toe line. (Bear with me, it is easy to do and hard to explain without showing it.) Since the hands are ahead of the ball at address, the rotation is only 30-35*.

The roll of the wrist was combined with torso turn in tandem so the butt end of the club goes down the toe line and then the lift up the circle to the bell ringing position.

In short the mantra is to see the vertical circle parallel to the aim/toe line and swing the butt end on it with the slight fore arm roll through the mitt and on up to the top where the bump starts the FUS.

After 33 months with sporadic on and off skirmishes with great ball striking followed by abysmal swatting leading to trying to find the number of suicide hotline it all fell into place. I can hit any shot I want any time and only the limit of practice time keeps the perfection from happening every shot.

So don't call it a day in the swing and although it would be easier if someone with the PPGS eye could give you an insight of what direction to go in keep going back through the basics and see if one of the simple things is causing the problem of not striking the ball well.

I have the version for the computer and the iPod Touch. The latter is pretty cool for on the course and the range.

I clicked with bunker shots very early on after I would hit a lot thins, my change that made all the difference to me was to have a open stance and focus as you say on the sand in front of the ball and swing through without any hesitation at all.
It was an amazing feeling to see the result from a full swing through the sand, almost goes against your brain matter! As your brain at first tells you to go at it softly.
With this one change I now have confidence in the bunker and always get the ball out on to the green more or less where I had planned, where as before I wouldn't have a clue where it would go! 

Keith, it's also possible that you're regripping or otherwise holding the club face open in the swing. Try adjusting the club face a couple degrees more closed in your grip when you set up.

Dave, To me it is consistent. Remember that there is the long game, mid game and short game. Among those you seperate putting as a game to itself.
The short game from 100 yards in is the scoring zone and the 8 iron through the wedges are the scoring clubs.
I found his method to be very consistent and fairly simple. I have to say that two days after I veiwed the vids I was able to use the bunker/sand shot to near perfection. I had a shot from 45 feet and following the "make an A directions" I hit it to 10 inches. The ball stopped where it landed. It was so cool. He continues most of the same traditions and parameters Surge has always taught. Posture and head still until impact and nose at the ball (unless your hitting out of the greenside bunker - then it's nose at entry point in the sand).
He also keeps the club traveling down the target line and normally square to the target. There were some subtle differences depending on the shot and lie.
It all seemed both understandable and very doable. It has my indorsement for sure.
Were there differences with what Surge teaches in general for full shots 100 and longer back to the driver? Yes, but they were refreshing and I think will be well recieved by the Surge Nation. One key difference was that he perfers to have the weight primarily on the forward foot on the shorter shots. No problem here. Don's attitude was accepting while making sure things are kept within reasonable parameters of the PPGS system

Dstansbery, when were you at George AFB?  I was there from February of 68 to April 69 in munitions maint.  I had a dirt bike then but did not play golf.  I went through Victorville about 5 years ago on vacation, what a change.  I wish I would have played golf when I was in the Air Force because some of the bases had some very nice courses.

Seems much of the attention of this daily tip was drawn to the clock, however having understood the 12/light club point for years now, what I gather most nearly every time I see Surge is the smooth and effortless swing. Just admire the simple truth that a steady head and still body and spine offer such a great base to lift the club up in an arc and then gather the ball with centered crisp contact on the way to a finish that also seems so comfortable. Seems to have a Freddy Couples quality to it in it's naturalness. Tis a shame we complicate things so much in our analysis.
This is why I am continually drawn back to his lessons with Matt. Classics that will along with Surges Driver demos forever remind me that just keeping the knees and lower body quiet while we allow the arms to find their proper route from, to and through the ball can be a much simpler and beautiful accomplishment if we just get out of our own way.
I leave them here as a reminder. hope you'll add them to your favorites saved list if not already done so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?N...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Simply beautiful

Generally,
I think most of those confused are one, new to the site and swing and two, they have not purchased the video lessons and manual and really studied and practiced this swing. So I guess as usual we need to continue to help them and hope that they comit and buy the products here that will get them on track and "in the know".

Dragonhead

Hope you had a great day. I too love dumplings, with chicken and fried.

I have some bad news. I am only going to get to play 9 holes tomorrow before I go to work.

Darn the luck,
Dick

RM:  Thanks for sharing the picture - OUCH !!!!!!  R2

Small world I guess, I'm from Upper Sandusky

Surgites...

Those who are true lovers of the American Flag must view this video.

Thanks Steve!

Phillip

Forget about the FACE ON view,that is not what this demonsration is about. If you are looking from DOWN THE LINE & the club is at 12 oclock where will it fall if you let it go?

Keith

I could be the poster boy for trial and error... lol.  I, like lots of Surgites, will probably never get this swing down anywhere close to where I'd like it to be, but my Irish side will NOT give up. 

I've found when it goes wrong I just go back to the basics in Surge's manual and look at the basics.  If I go thriugh them one by one I'll hit on something simple that I've overlooked.

I guess it's my Scottish side that says "NEVER give up".  I know for certain my back thanks me every day for "keeping it vertical".  That is something I could never say with the rotational swing that's being taught by most teaching pros.

Back to basics and hang tough.

No

I think I have the back elbow figured out now (it looked like I was Peter Pan getting ready to crow like a rooster). We will see how it goes. Thanks for the feedback.