Toe-Up Drills For The Takeaway

Dale--ditto on taking things too literally. It took me awhile to make sense of the similarity and difference between "hitting down" and "swinging down."   While there are times that hitting down might be appropriate, I now translate the general instruction to hit down into swinging down.

I was watching a golf lesson live the other day and watched another case of literal versus figurative interpretation.  The pro kept telling the student, "Swing out."  The student was a baseball player in college and interpreted "swing out" as "go for the fences."  He kept swinging harder and harder, and the pro kept saying "swing out."  After quite a few minutes of this, the pro clarified:  "swing from the inside in an outwardly direction."  I'm sure we could put together a little booklet on such breakdowns in communication. 

Thanks Surge, that was one of the best explained and demonstrated vid's of the fundamentals of the surge swing.

Really enjoyed the toe up video.  I can see that most of the iron shots have ball placement in the center--my question is what is better for long irons including the driver. Thanks,  JL in S. Ga.

Steve, I notice that when the toe of my club is in the catcher´s mitt  my right elbow is about 5 to 6 inches away from the side of my body and from there it rises about 15" vertical, well away from my body to the "triangle position" at the top of my swing.  Having been a rotational swinger for many years (with my right arm tucked in) the catcher´s mitt position with the right elbow away from my body took a fair amount of indoor practice to master.

Haven't played in about a month.  Nice day here today, but had company so no golf.  Went out to the yard and took a few swings with the driver and a couple of hybrids.  It really felt like I knew what I was doing, but not sure I'd want it on video...lol.

That is the true definition of a 1 piece takeaway but I agree with Steve below when he says He is getting that club head moved toward the toe line much faster than his body is rotating.

Steve, absolutely spot on with your well thought out comments.  Who was it who said some weeks back on this blog that you should become a golf teaching professional ??  You didn´t seem to take to the idea.  LOL.
You are right : we golfers cannot practise new things or new shots or new anything when playing on the course since this can only lead to frustration.  Practise at home or on the range and then do your best and enjoy every shot on the course, even missed putts. More LOL.
PMG  

To Surge, DJ,and Surgites everywhere,

Happy New Year from this CT Yankee.  The contributions from our bloggers and, of course, Don's frequent lessons make our golfing family truly unique and special.  Thanks to some of Don's recent lessons and member suggestions my last half dozen or so rounds have been in the 70's, and I think this trend will continue in 2012.  I guess you could call it the "late take", but it's a heck of a lot more fun than 82-85 rut I was in.

I want to share this story to end '11 with a laugh:  The actor Matt Damon was a guest on John Stewart's show and talked about his latest film I Bought a Zoo.  He was asked if any of the animals he worked with gave him trouble and answered "No, but the grizzly bear seemed nearly 12 feet tall when he stood up.  It reminded me of a story my father relayed to me about a fishing trip in Alaska.  He asked his guide who had a 44 magnum holstered if the gun was carried in case they encountered any grizzly bears. The guide answered yes. The gun had its front sight filed off and Matt's father asked why.  The guide replied "So it won't hurt so much when the grizzly shoves it up my ass!"
  Best wishes to all,
Ray Gawlak

The visuals in this lesson were great.  I used this today on my simulator (winter now in Cleveland) and was very consistent in squaring my club at impact. Thanks.

By the way, Doc Griffin built a driver and 5 wood for me (Christmas present from my wife and daughters) through his long distance fitting program.  All I can say is WOW.

Grego

Absolutely. That and the shorter club(s) make it easier too. We're more over the ball and vertical becomes easier. That again is why a shorter driver is better. Of course Surge makes it look easy with all clubs.
This whole discusion has reminded me why it is so important to almost "lock" the wrists and angle we set up with. I think I've gotten to loose with the arms and hands. Need to get it all going back and up, controled a bit more with that right hand to 3/4's and vertical.

Something that helps me keep the toe up, and keeps the clubface from closing during the takeaway is making sure that there is a little extra pressure in the bottom 3 fingers of the forward hand. If I pull with the right side to initiate the takeaway and the left hand grip pressure is too low, the heel of the clubhead will tend to lead the toe and result in a closed clubface.  If I do this firming with the first 3 fingers of the forward hand, I don't have to worry about whether the toe of the club is under or over rotating. 

Thought I'd post a comment about lifting the club since there was some discussion about it today.  About a month ago, I realized that I confused lifting the club with lifting the hands, and I was letting my left arm bend too much.  I was actually lifting the club and not swinging it up.  The only way I can describe this "swinging up" is to point out in Surge's swing demonstration today that he seems to swing on a very round arc, both on the BUS and FUS.  I noticed about a month ago that a teaching pro at a course I play at and a senior (81 years old with a 10 handicap) both swing the same swing.  So, I tried it, and it helps me to be able to repeat my swings.

My thanks to all of you who have been keeping me in your thoughts.  It has taken me eight months to get back to where my game was prior to my three month health imposed break from golf.  I couldn't have done it without the Swing Surgeon daily blog.

My guess would be is that at impact he either chicken wings the left arm through impact are the hip turns open to quick and he pulls the club in side to quickly through impact.

Absolutely correct, the swing is all one action throughout !!

Steve

Tom Watson 62 average driver distance 2011 280.
A friend of mine 62 one of the worst looking swings but it repeats 260 of the tee. scores mid 70's.
I also know guys that are in their 60's hardly ever practice just pitching,chipping and putting drives maybe 220 on dry days playing from 6100 yards scores 70-75 these are the guys that drive nuts the ones that don't practice but have decent swings and excellent short games.

 

Surg,,
One tip that you have not mentioned lately is keeping the arms away from the body throughout the swing.   In your Peak Performance Golf Swing series you suggested putting a pack of cigarettes into your chest pocket and avoiding touching it throughput the swing.  I found this to be very helpful. It has helped me to keep my arms over the toe line, and has made it easier to get into the catchers mitt and up the tree on the forward up swing.   I have a tendency to stand up too straight, (probably going back to my old rotational swing) and have found that you can’t avoid touching your chest if you are not bent over the ball.  I have also found that doing the “skip the rock” drill, with the cigarette pack idea in mind helpful.   
I would like to wish you and all of the Surgites out there best wishes for the Mew Year and may all of your swings be vertical, solid and straight.

I don't think anyone would advocate what you suggest unless you have physical problems. I guess what it does do is make the transition on to the left easier as you just have to plant your foot on the FUS.
But if you are lifting the left foot on the BUS I would assume you are lifting or turning too much and your body is well moving a lot.

As for the FUS/finish, again the BUS if done correctly puts you on the right track to impact through the FUS..

keep the same pressure all through the swing, you are not gripping enough on your takeway, so on the way down your brain says, hey we had better hold on or the club is going down the fairway
Regards
Malcom Europe

Right on Charlie. It is a golf "swing" after all. I sometimes wonder how many folks take the Surgisms too literally. There has to be some force to redirect your swing to vertical when you reach the toe line but the actual lift is still from the momentum of the swinging action.

Dale

Steve

This was my point.

He is getting that club head moved toward the toe line much faster than his body is rotating.

I have been over turning in the BUS no doubt DJ gets the club to the toe line quicker than Don.

Thank you. I promise I get it this time.

What do we do when we get stuck in 70's.I practice the short game a lot. But we will all bottom out on scoring at some point unless we can practice a couple of hours a day are longer and play more than once are twice a week. Some people maybe content on shooting in the 80's and may never score in the 70's maybe a couple of times a year.

Especially if people cant figure out that 1 when they come in here they get a tip and run to the golf course and think it is going to solve all the problems instead of going to the range or back yard and practice before they try it on the course. 2 IMO most people do not really want to do the work to get better and that ties back into 1 above.
Practice at home or the range. When on the course pick your target and swing the club. These are my thoughts on the course. If I hit the same bad shot a few times on a couple of holes I may try and make a minor adjustment and most of the time I just play with what I have that day and fix it at the range.

Ruthy.

Re Lex and the toe up drills: That bottle and tray demo was brilliant! I've studied your takeaway in your video tips and I've noticed that you keep your right forearm tucked close to your torso on the takeaway. I've tried mimicking this and find that when I take the club away with both arms, keeping mu right arm tucked , when the shaft gets over the toe line the club head is toe up, the hips are turned a little, and all that's left is to continue lifting the club straight up. Forget everything else. if you keep your arm tucked the takeaway will take care of itself!

Thanks Robert

This is my favorite video and made up a index card to hang on my bag that reads Quiet Your Turn,Quiet Your Body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?f...

Just a question of my own curiosity as I personally feel that you can't really have the ball in the exact same position for 4 clubs that are different lengths and the total length difference from the PW to the 7 iron being 2", do you play your irons in the same spot?

Hi lex
Wishing you a Happy New Year
Had not forgotten you, hope to see you both in the New Year
Malcom

Charlie, like many I'm sure, I was unaware you were dealing with some health challenges. I did noticed you had "stopped by" to visit less frequently. You always have given us helpful thoughts and comments. Glad to hear your feeling better and hanging in there. 'Swinging on a round arc' is a good way to put it. It's all a continuous motion. Thanks again and keep up the good fight as you keep golf in your life. 
 

With all of the recent reading on the minds influence on our games. I would say Any Doubt is a killer. Like the old saying goes, If you think you can't, you are right.

Commit to the swing, club choice, type of shot etc..,without any doubt, and just as important, Always Take Dead Aim. We must have a target in mind. The smaller the better. Feel the swing, then Swing the feel.

Easier said than done, However!

Happy New year to All

 PMG in 2012

How do I unsubscribe, sold my clubs!

Thanks SGW. All good suggestions. I have gotten more consistent, particularly with my pw which frankly I use for a big variety of shots from 105 and in. It's my favorite even 5-10 yards from the green. I'm good with it for the pitch n run especially. I need the most work with my 53 and 58. Though there to I have had more good shots lately. Aside from needing more work with the short clubs I need to continue to work on putting for sure. Most of my practice time is on the green. I'm always surprised how few golfers I see on the practice green. Most love to bang balls on the range more than the short stuff. 
 

Spot on daily today, Surge! I went to the range at Eagle Point and was blasting lasers until I videoed my driver swing. Seems I have reverted back to my rotational days for some reason.Not as bad but bad enough, great shots, wrong swing. I mean I was shooting darts with everything,covering the flag into a stiff breeze at 100 yards with my pw, same with my 7 iron to another flag at 145. Then I felt loosened up so I set-up the camera and took 3 swings with the driver and there I was laid-off city. They went were I wanted them to go but not by the methodology I want & thought I was doing. I was going to post them to the tube for you guys to see and use as "don't do this" kinda of thing but it seem the pixel ratio isn't enough to see clearly in V1.
 So I'm doing nothing but drills for the next month until I get my Surge swing back, I miss it already.
 Steve,like in one of your posts below, I was doing the one piece take-way same speed with all everything and yep. I was turning 90*. I was also dropping down in my back swing about 4-5 inches but brought it back at impact. The video was of three swings and the only thing I can say is I was consistent. The lines I drew for the first swing matched the other two perfectly. One other thing I noticed also was that my impact shaft angle was sharper than my set-up angle. Impact was almost 45*. Okay, I'm through lamenting, woe is me, woe is me...I feel better.
 I'm off to restudy the book, drills and videos and find my place in space.

Well put Dale.
Keeping it simple :) 
 

Charlie,

I am glad to hear that you are finally feeling back to normal health and golf. If I am remembering correctly, you never did find the cause of the spinal infection, did you?

I still feel my BUS has a lot of lift. Granted, it is being assisted by the initial momentum of the turn and take away, but I try to think of it as a controlled lift rather than a swinging motion.

As to my left arm, it always has a slight flex in the elbow.
http://www.swingsurgeon.com/Ho...

Happy New Year and PMG in 2012

Roger,

Just got in and reading the thread. For me, I feel that I start everything moving away and into the backswing at the same time. However, as Steve clearly mentions, if everything was moving at the same speed or pace, when I arrived at 70* the club would still be in the center (general area) of my body as it was when the movement started and angled outward at approx the same 70*.

    It is clear that even though everything may start at the same time, my hands and arms  have to move faster than my upper body, chest/shoulders, else the club would never reach the toe line. So, even though everything seems to me to be moving at the same time, they clearly have to travel at differing speeds.

I like the little test from Steve. However you move, to simply hand the guy on your right toe line a glass of water and keep your upper body from going past 70*, that would be your personal key movement, which may be different from mine and everyone else's.

Happy New Year and PMG

Thanks for the link to Surge's writings that included a paragraph on the left arm.  Like many of the posters, I too have a bend in the left arm, but my  problem is that if I'm not careful, the amount of bend can differ from swing to swing, from day to day, and when I get really careless (read as lazy), the bend gets fairly substantial, and this seems to cause me two problems.  The first is the logical problem of having to compensate for it on the FUS and unbend it to the degree I need to make the swing work.  If I don't succeed, then I get the second problem--the club head is just a little closer to my shoulders (decreased radius to the club head), and I top the ball.  When I work on keeping the left arm fairly straight but not rigid, I get more consistent contact and slightly better distance.

I'm going to start writing up cue cards with these drills....the toe up drill will be #1.

Why, Of course I was only Kidding!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

If you lift  your heel, you may want to video tape your swing as the lifting of the left heel is caused by over rotation of the hips and with limited rotation, it would be impossible to lift the left heel unless you physically flexed the thigh which is totatlly in error.

Perfect, I do exactly the same after I found about 4 months ago that inadvertently I had my right hand higher than my left at setup, leading to pulls, hooks and whatever else you want to call it !!
BTW I liked your latest video on YouTube hitting over the pond.  Great shot !!
PMG