Trouble Hitting Fairway Woods?

Steve

Did I read somewhere that you said you are playing R7 irons ? Which 3w are you playing ? I took my 3W 13* out of the bag when I got my new 11* driver. I am carrying my 17* FW. and a 3 and 4 hybrids 5-LW in irons. The 3w I would not ever hit out of the fairway just carried it as a back up driver. I had to choose between the 3w and the LW and I would rather carry the LW. 

DH : What a strange game this is : as you say above "Yesterday terrible,but today much better. Overswinging with the F/W Woods is the main cause".  I will take the liberty of changing your sentence to fit my game : "Inaccuracy is one of the biggest minusses" !! Ha, ha, ha and the ball ends up at the bottom of the water hazard !!

Some time back you wrote that you had played many sports, as I also did in my younger days, mainly tennis and cricket. I can remember having what we would call an "off day" but nothing as terrible (your word) as a bad day at golf !  It´s all in the mind they say !!
If I hit a bad shot, I always change my club for the next shot to get the first one out of my mind.

However, when we hit just a few good solid shots and/or enter a great putt our spirits are lifted and next thing we are planning our return to the course asap.

The ABs have put on a wonderful display so far.  Here in Bs.As. the press were full of compliments for the Pumas who scored the first try and defended for 66 minutes before NZ broke through !!  My wife and I got up at 4.30 a.m. to see this match (and the Haka), well worth the small early morning sacrifice.  Sarkozy and extended family had better watch out !!  Also my apologies to all the US bloggers who probably don´t understand a word of what I´m on about !!!!!

PMGAS specially the AS part !!

Liston again Is, he was speaking in general and toward the end mentioned  from the tee also.

Thank you for the kind words!!

Surge, all good advice for our 70 years young friend. Although everyone is different because there are many golfers in thier 70's that still perfer thier 3 woods and long irons there are many much younger who would be better off with hybrids and more loft. I have found lately that I choose to use my 5 wood over my 3 wood if at all possible. I really only get significat ly more yards out of my 3 if I nail it. With the 18* of my 5 it is just plain easier and often straighter. Like I say we're all different and club speed along with the length of te shaft all factor in.
One thing I have been doing recently wityh success is using the "work the ball" methhod that Surge gave us in his latest download lesson off the tee withymy driver. I have been practicing and playing the draw when ever possible. It comes down to having the confidence of aiming down the right side and trusting that it will come back toward the middle. So far, so good. I hit nearly every fairway last week and the draw gave me more distance. So in addition to considering more appropriate clubing (ie., more loft and less length), one could consider learning to draw the ball for more distance off the tee and a shorter club in to the green :) 

Steve,

 I was the same way between all the off the rack Hybrids and my Cobra woods. I just couldn't find any hybrids I could hit better than my woods, Until I had a couple made for me by the PPGS Citified Fitter. Since then I have added a third one to the bag. The proper fitting made the difference for me.

Hey guys,

Interesting subject.  Here's something Surge did on it some time back.

http://www.swingsurgeon.com/Ho...

Maybe Doc could weigh in it and give us his thoughts.

And also a bit severe, not showing much respect for us "over 75s", ha, ha, ha !!!!

Methodicalbear, I fully approve your recommendations re midgrip and ball
position since I do exactly the same on my fairway shots with good
results (even if the theory regarding age and club speed may be wrong
according to Doc). 

I know I won´t get the full distance, but instead I get controlled shots straight down the fairway, very useful on a par 5.
Glad to know that I´m not alone on this !!

Dale, I heard him say more loft and getting properly fit will help. You know as a fitter that correct flex and loft and length all contribute to getting it in the air. He talked about the need for higher lofted clubs.

Disqus generic email templateThe best club you have at your disposal is your own body :that's what you should be working on ,not only in strength building ,which is useless for golf ,but on flexibility and "explosive " speed .Several fitness books should be perused ,I would mention "Fix your body ,fix your swing "by Joey DIOVISALVI , "Thirty exercises for better golf " by Dr Frank JOBE (This book is 30 years old and is still fully valid ) .As for the comment on using the three wood (loft 15°) full length ,It is useful off the tee on long par 3 's ,but off thedeck I find it easier to grip down .I definitely believe ,at least this iworks for me ! ) that placing the ball more towars the center of the stance helps because as age comes ,we have difficulties moving our weight fast enough on the front foot Raymond Chastel
chastel.raymond@wanadoo.fr
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Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 8:16 PM
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Doc Griffin wrote, in response to methodicalbear:

Really? As a teaching professional as well as a master fitter, I take exception to your information and suggestions. Where you put the ball in your stance is relative to your club length and release point. It has nothing to do with speed or age.
Also, my heartiest congratulations on having the club head speed of 95mph. This is awesome at an age of 77. In fact, it's miraculous. At that club head speed, you should have no problem playing a 3 wood at all anyway.
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DragoNZhead,
You are evidently the exception that proves the rule, smoking your regular woods.
Do you carry any hybrids in your bag ?
JH

P.S. : Good luck for Sunday´s rugger match against the Frenchies !!

Amen to that. I love blades and would like to get a set of Miuras like the set I saw a couple of months ago. Beautiful. The downside is in the desert they get beat on by rocks and decomposed granite outside the grassed areas.

I experienced some time ago the problem mentioned  of the 3 Wood shooting low and scurrying  on the fairway .
I cured this definitely by taking two measures
   -grip down on the handle (Mid grip )
   -place the ball in the middle of the stance
I now hit the 15° fairway wood (3 Wood )beautifully and high with these slight adjustments .
I am 77 and my clubhead speed measured by the SWING SPEED RADAR is 95 MPH  .
I play to a 14 handicap and start from the back (White ) tees :stating from the yellow tees makes it too easy for me .
When you get older you should not play the ball too far forward in your stance :this is also true for the driver ,don't tee the ball as recommended  ,off the left toe :place it more to the center of the stance !

Hi Surge,
              I have noticed that your irons are blades , just like almost all pro golfers and people say that for high handicappers they are better off using cavity back irons because of the extended sweet spot but if we are comfortable hitting our irons with the PPGS and do it quite successfully , should we not consider using blades ? Also , I know that you say that there is no difference ( apart from ball position) with hitting drivers and irons ,  but if the irons are steel shafts and the woods are graphite then there is a slight delay in contact with the woods because of the greater flex. I would appreciate your comments. PW from the UK

About a year ago I put my 3 and 5 woods in the closet at home and substitued a 3 hybrid for them.  Seems to work very well.  Recently I had a club fitter make me a new driver.  I purchased what he recommended based on an evaluation he did last spring, which was a high loft driver (16 degree) with an offset head.  He used a Wishon 730 CL driver (400cc head) with a 43 inch shaft which is a very soft flex (probably ladies flex).  I just got the driver about a week ago and we have had so much rain down here in the Keys the golf course has been closed due to flooding.  I did try the driver out at the local highschool football field and was really hitting the ball nice and straight and it looks like maybe I am getting about 10 of 15 yards more distance.  So I think Surge is right on with his comments about the fairway woods and driver.

Jerry

Hey Jack no disrespect I just think Doc is funny. 

YES, To you and the others who missed the Very Pointed Message.

 Most seniors Cannot generate sufficient club head speed to get low lofted fairway woods sufficiently launched into the air (from fairway lies) to acquire the desired distances.

Therefor, they need to get their clubhead speeds checked and be properly fit, for Fairway Woods OR Hybrids  which have the proper lofts, lengths, lies, and flexes to max their present swing speeds.

The message seemed very clear and concise to me. I do not see how so many failed to get it.??????

PMG

Disqus generic email templateThe best club you have at your disposal is your own body :that's what you should be working on ,not only in strength building ,which is useless for golf ,but on flexibility and "explosive " speed .Several fitness books should be perused ,I would mention "Fix your body ,fix your swing "by Joey DIOVISALVI , "Thirty exercises for better golf " by Dr Frank JOBE (This book is 30 years old and is still fully valid ) .As for the comment on using the three wood (loft 15°) full length ,It is useful off the tee on long par 3 's ,but off thedeck I find it easier to grip down .I definitely believe ,at least this iworks for me ! ) that placing the ball more towars the center of the stance helps because as age comes ,we have difficulties moving our weight fast enough on the front foot Raymond Chastel
chastel.raymond@wanadoo.fr
----- Original Message -----
From: Disqus
To: chastel.raymond@wanadoo.fr
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 8:16 PM
Subject: [?? Probable Spam] [swingsurgeon] Re: Trouble Hitting Fairway Woods? - The Surge's Daily Blog

Doc Griffin wrote, in response to methodicalbear:

Really? As a teaching professional as well as a master fitter, I take exception to your information and suggestions. Where you put the ball in your stance is relative to your club length and release point. It has nothing to do with speed or age.
Also, my heartiest congratulations on having the club head speed of 95mph. This is awesome at an age of 77. In fact, it's miraculous. At that club head speed, you should have no problem playing a 3 wood at all anyway.
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Tom. A bit defensive here!  As far as tee location is concerned the comments are valid, being a different aspect than Surge discussed.  The US "Seniors tee" plan is poobably ok, but will result in ages( or "Senior") being on score cards to allow some reasonable comparison of real performance. Why not just accept that ability deteriorates as age increases and handicap will increase.  On the other issue, loft may increase bit shaft length is'nt shorter, so if it works, do it!

EdAus

Good advice there about playing the ball back in your stance when not off a tee. I sometimes think of the 3W as the driver and play it too far forward. This creeps in off the turf as well so this is good to keep in mind. This is less of a problem when I eliminate any "tee" and just play a first shot as if it was off the fairway which I should do more often. 

I may use a really short stub off the box just to get a "perfect lie" - but that may also mentally get me into the "drive" mentality which likely starts the negative effect.

PS - no hybrids yet - still like the 3W and the 2/3 irons on down.

 I have met them and found them to be a couple of temperamental gentlemen. Especially when not given their proper respect. It is unfortunate that they have such power and control over the fate of our swings. They are two fellows which take a lot of time and patience to properly get to know. A couple of fickle blokes indeed, as all of us have slightly different needs from them.

 Without them it is hopeless.

PMG

I think the surge missed the question. The writer was concerned about hitting the wood from the FAIRWAY, not he tee. I have the same problem but from the faiway, not the tee. Any suggestions?

Not to pull rank but I'm just a bit more qualified to address what is norm and beyond norm when it comes to club head speed and age and I can tell you with the utmost of sincerity that a club head speed of 95mph is not obtainable by many over the age of 60 and even more remotely for most 65+ year old.  So, you are truly in a class by yourself and I think that is great. (I would really be interested in see the results using a high end launch monitor also as compared to the SWING SPEED RADAR)

As for the advice of Tom I would have to ask, if you have to choke the 3 wood down, which by the way makes it a shorter club, so the ball position would be moved back in the stance from where it would be played at full length, to make it playable would  you keep playing it rather than go to a shorter more lofted club in the first place? 

BTW, his club head speed with a driver is a good bit over 95mph but he's not 77 yet.

I have no problem htting a fairway wood off the tee. My problem is hiiting when the ball is on the fair way.

Peter,

Earlier this summer, Surge and Doc Griffin filmed an entire fitting session with one of Don's students, Randy Wolf who currently plays with cavity back clubs if my memory serves. In one segment, Doc puts 8 or 9 mid-irons out for Randy to hit. After each shot, Randy is asked to rank how well he liked the club he just hit versus those he previously used. The only "rule" Doc imposed was that Randy could not look at the back of the club to see if it was a blade or a cavity back. When all was said & done, Randy ranked a blade in each of the top 3 positions. If you regularly can hit the sweet spot, then Doc and Surge would recommend blades over cavity backs every time.

Tom Jans

Disqus generic email templateThe best club you have at your disposal is your own body :that's what you should be working on ,not only in strength building ,which is useless for golf ,but on flexibility and "explosive " speed .Several fitness books should be perused ,I would mention "Fix your body ,fix your swing "by Joey DIOVISALVI , "Thirty exercises for better golf " by Dr Frank JOBE (This book is 30 years old and is still fully valid ) .As for the comment on using the three wood (loft 15°) full length ,It is useful off the tee on long par 3 's ,but off thedeck I find it easier to grip down .I definitely believe ,at least this iworks for me ! ) that placing the ball more towars the center of the stance helps because as age comes ,we have difficulties moving our weight fast enough on the front foot Raymond Chastel
chastel.raymond@wanadoo.fr
----- Original Message -----
From: Disqus
To: chastel.raymond@wanadoo.fr
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 8:16 PM
Subject: [?? Probable Spam] [swingsurgeon] Re: Trouble Hitting Fairway Woods? - The Surge's Daily Blog

Doc Griffin wrote, in response to methodicalbear:

Really? As a teaching professional as well as a master fitter, I take exception to your information and suggestions. Where you put the ball in your stance is relative to your club length and release point. It has nothing to do with speed or age.
Also, my heartiest congratulations on having the club head speed of 95mph. This is awesome at an age of 77. In fact, it's miraculous. At that club head speed, you should have no problem playing a 3 wood at all anyway.
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Fred juliano:

  I know at LEAST two local courses in the Phoenix Az area the do exactly what you are asking about.  Orange Tree (Scottsdale) and Bear Creek (Mesa - Gilbert- Queen Creek area) have Men and Women's rating on the 2 forward sets of tees,  Additionally, Bear Creek has ratings for a "Combo" course -- 9 Whites and 9 Reds -- they go Red, White, Yellow, and Navy Blue -- front to back.

   However, I have to ask the question: IF the Red tees are no longer considered LADIES tees, then WHY are TWO ratings/slopes required ?

    Keep hitting them STRAIGHT and LONG

     Amos

Thanks Phil, but I don't do videos on teaching and I try to get Don to not do fitting videos!   LOL Maybe he'll surprise you and do one soon.

Steve, likewise I play all my fairway woods fine, 3,5,7&9. My 9W is Mr dependable but
I'm now starting to hit the short irons much better, 7 iron is now getting more use,
approx.130-140M.  But when/if I get fitted, I will certainly check out hybrids as the  
weight of opinion seems to suggest these are the way to go. Can't see the
benefit of everyone arguing about irons V fairway woods, we all have different physical
capabilities, ie what's good for me is no good for others. I always like what you have
to say. 

my my, not disrespecting at all rather drooling over the fact that someone 20 years my senior has a club head speed significantly higher than me

Jack,
If you choke down on the club and play it better then why not just get a shorter more lofted club in the first place.  You'll hit it even better. 

It's like the guy that once wore 34" waist pants and continued to do so even though his was was now 38".  He could still make the pants work but they sure didn't fit.   Why do guys keep trying to make equipment that doesn't fit them any longer work?  I just don't get it.

J, you may need to stick with your 5 wood. Might be time to get a 7 wood too. Likely your clubhead speed is not sufficient to get the 14/15 degrees of the 3 wood in the air. The 18* of your 5 wood is simply easier to hit. I have the same challenge.

I have a a Cleveland Luancher 17 with the gold Fujikura shaft that was stock and it is a rocket launcher (sic.) Also matching 19 and 22 Launchers. All with the same M.O. See ya golf ball.

Disqus generic email templateThe best club you have at your disposal is your own body :that's what you should be working on ,not only in strength building ,which is useless for golf ,but on flexibility and "explosive " speed .Several fitness books should be perused ,I would mention "Fix your body ,fix your swing "by Joey DIOVISALVI , "Thirty exercises for better golf " by Dr Frank JOBE (This book is 30 years old and is still fully valid ) .As for the comment on using the three wood (loft 15°) full length ,It is useful off the tee on long par 3 's ,but off thedeck I find it easier to grip down .I definitely believe ,at least this iworks for me ! ) that placing the ball more towars the center of the stance helps because as age comes ,we have difficulties moving our weight fast enough on the front foot Raymond Chastel
chastel.raymond@wanadoo.fr
----- Original Message -----
From: Disqus
To: chastel.raymond@wanadoo.fr
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 8:16 PM
Subject: [?? Probable Spam] [swingsurgeon] Re: Trouble Hitting Fairway Woods? - The Surge's Daily Blog

Doc Griffin wrote, in response to methodicalbear:

Really? As a teaching professional as well as a master fitter, I take exception to your information and suggestions. Where you put the ball in your stance is relative to your club length and release point. It has nothing to do with speed or age.
Also, my heartiest congratulations on having the club head speed of 95mph. This is awesome at an age of 77. In fact, it's miraculous. At that club head speed, you should have no problem playing a 3 wood at all anyway.
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