Surge's Prescription For Tiger Woods

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 20:34 -- Don Trahan

Today's video starts with an email I received about a month ago from Randy W., one of my long time students. He sent it just after Rocco Mediate spoke with a reporter from the San Francisco Chronicle about what Mediate thought about Tiger Woods' current swing. [click for full article]

"Surge, we talked about this and you mentioned to me many months prior to this story -- the interview by Rocco Mediate that Tiger's newer swing was all wrong. Sounds like Rocco should - could be a vertical swinger? The" heavy club" and "swinging around his body" comments are right out of your teachings. Tiger's body is breaking down as he ages. So, see, even the one time best golfer in the world is infected with bad swing habits that's causing him pain!"

Rocco went on The Golf Channel's Morning Drive the next day and gave a very good rationale for why he thinks Tiger's current swing coaches are not doing him any favors. [click for audio interview] He also said that he hoped Tiger will get himself healthy so that he can be on tour regularly playing at the level he has played at for so long. It would be good for golf, Rocco said, and I agree with him 100%.

As we have talked about so many times over the years, the modern rotational swing, taught by practically every golf instructor on the planet, is eventually going to create severe back, knee and joint problems for the majority of golfers, amateur and professional alike. I can't help but feel that the golf industry is doing great damage to the sport by continuing to advocate a swing theory that most orthopedic surgeons, physical therapists, and physiologists cite as the #1 reason for bad backs and knees in the patients they see.

So please watch today's video tip--it's part instruction and part public service announcement. If you know someone who suffers from the ill effects of a rotational swing, please send them a link to this message. If they commit to learning the Peak Performance Golf Swing they can end the cycle of pain and start enjoying golf again. That will be good for them and good for the game we all love.

Keep it vertical!

The Surge

If you can't view the YouTube video above try CLICKING HERE. You must allow popups from this site for the link to work.

Blog Tags: 

Comments

Raymond's picture

Submitted by Raymond on

Sir Don,
I had all of your Peak Performance techniques saved on line.  Recently I went back to them to find out they are no longer available.  Where can I go to get them back on-line?

Psharpnack's picture

Submitted by Psharpnack (not verified) on

I would like to see on your videos more action and less talk.  I get confused when you start talking and mention too much about what not to do, etc. etc. etc. instead of what and how you do the vertical swing. I have watched video after video and all I hear just confuses me.  Not enough action to show the vertical swing. Do it over and over, slow and slower and leave out all the negative comments that are made.  Just positive remarks about how to obtain the vertical swing.  Less talk.

Tom Jans's picture

Submitted by Tom Jans (not verified) on

Collin,

Even though Tiger has a powerful swing he has not ranked among the longest hitters on tour and certainly not among the most accurate off the tee over the last 4 years. When you look at the steady decline of his game from year to year you reach the inescapable conclusion that his body (and swing) are failing him.

On the other hand, when you look at DJ's combination of distance AND accuracy (10th in driving distance/7th in GIR in 2010) I think one could rightfully assume that Tiger could achieve the same kind of results... without the pain. He is a gifted athlete, no doubt, but if he is too beat up to play over the course of a season, the conversation shouldn't be about whether he can hit it as far with the Surge Swing or not, even though I am certain he could. It should be about what he needs to do to win tournaments again, IMHO. What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over again and again and expecting different results. The sad truth is that he is not likely to return to anywhere near his former level of excellence by swinging the way he has always done.

And good luck to you in shooting your age--what a great goal!

Tom Jans

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

The "rich old guy" isn't all that old. LOL Just very famous and very rich but he drives his old truck down to the baseball field and gets out there and coaches third base and acts just like all of the rest of us and doesn't have to  deal with autograph seekers or anything. I might see him in the grocery store or at the Sonic Drive In or anywhere else that us lowly people go.

He could live a higher profile personal life but he chooses to live here.

If I had his money I would be even lower profile.

We do have choices, even the rich and famous.

BTW, Where did we make the leap to saying what I would do if I was Tiger anyway?
All I said was what I would do if I had "more money".
I didn't say what I would do if I was Tiger at any point.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

He might or might not but if he kept a few more in the fairway it would be worth losing a few yards if that happened.

It's been a long time since I thought the reason he won a tournament was because he was long with the driver. Most of his wins were in spite of his length (off line) with the driver.

He may have been at his best when he was hitting mostly stingers off of the tee and finding the fairway.

If he wants to limit further damage to his knee he might not have any choice than to change to something that doesn't snap the knee in the finish, even if it was longer AND  straighter.

It's like a fastball pitcher whose arm is shot and has to learn to be more of a finesse pitcher. He doesn't have the option of just doing it the way he used to do it.

MikefromKy Go Bama. Go Irish's picture

Submitted by MikefromKy Go B... (not verified) on

Back when I was looking around back in the beginning of the year over at that other site the pro there told everyone he could hit the fairway 70% of the time off the tee without even practicing. I asked him if he was that good why he was there pedaling  20.00 videos and not out on tour playing never got a answer.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

I probably could use some good therapy but I care if Tiger could get back to winning championships. I was looking forward to seeing him make a run at Jack's record and witnessing a little bit of history. Watching golf without Tiger for me is like watching basketball without MJ which I rarely watch at all anymore.

The draw for me to watch both of them wasn't even the skills they had. It was the mental toughness and the will to win even when they weren't playing their best.

I learned a long time ago to not expect my sports heroes to also be my heroes for moral standards. I have heroes for that already and none of them play sports.

To say Tiger is a loser is absurd. Even if he never played again most Tour players would do anything to have his record, and they are the best in the world.

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade (not verified) on

I've been catching up on the blogs from the last few days. Just the mention of the words Tiger Woods gets alot of folks fired up either for or against. Keeping in mind that this was not about whether we "like" the guy or not but about his golf swing. I would have to say I fully agree with Surge that his swing has been jacked up by wrong guidance over the last few years. He has so much natural ability and athletic skill that he was able to over come it all with pure talent and determination. I fully agree with Steves comment earlier that what is missed most by serious fans of golf isthe way he could will the ball into the hole and had a phycological advantage over his apponents. I too miss those gifts. Though I hope he wins again, his best is behind him. Would love to see him come around enough to give the golf world another serious run once more. And I too have plenty of role models from another "good book" as far as morales. I still marvel at what he gave us in the form of amazing golf and yes we have no clue how we would hold up in his shoes these past 15 years. It's easy to judge from the 'peanut gallery', but give me $100.000,000.00 per year and I may not survive the opportunies, good and bad for 1 year.
Just being honest. So I choose to wish him well and hope for his recovery and goog health.

MikefromKy Go Bama. Go Irish's picture

Submitted by MikefromKy Go B... (not verified) on

Honey I am not sure what to tell you. Are straight right, Slicing, how long is your driver ?
Could be a number of things give us more info.

Kevin McGarrahan's picture

Submitted by Kevin McGarrahan (not verified) on

 Click on Surge's Shop at the top of the page. Then purchase the Foundations Manual and the videos, and you will have everything you want, except for a one-on-one lesson. For that you will have to go to SC.

Wlinder's picture

Submitted by Wlinder (not verified) on

love watching your swing every day, it really helps remind us how effortless a golf swing can be. It would be nice if for a few days we saw you from directly behind the ball hitting forward into the net as well.  Could you do that? Thanks for all the tips that have dropped my handicap
4 strokes and the lack of back trouble as well

Geesmagm's picture

Submitted by Geesmagm (not verified) on

IMHO golf does not need Tiger Woods. The PGA tour will obviously benefit and also all the players on it since TW is a big draw. The game is a lot bigger than any one person. In spite of all the good things that TW has done I still have a hard time warming up to his temper tantrums, cursing, and his spitting on the golf course which I consider to be the barometer of his disdain for the game and his fellow competitors. How would you like to play out of one of those lugies? Micheal Jordan is a gifted athlete who was allowed to get away with behaviour
on the court that no one else could. Neither of these people are admirable from a moral standpoint, but as pointed out by another surgite how many of us could resist the temptations that these two have encountered? Probably not many.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Maybe he was hitting pitching wedges off of the tee.;-)

Of course in fairness the fairways the pros are usually playing are more narrow than the ones most of us play, and the doglegs take more distance to clear.

Some of those on TV look like trying to hit a ribbon lined with spectators.
I bet I would clear some of those people out after a couple of duck hooks. Ha ha!

The ones on the right side would be pretty safe unless they were well down the fairway but all bets are off for any of them brave enough to get on the left side. LOL

Napp's picture

Submitted by Napp (not verified) on

I really don't care how he does it.  I just would like to see him get back to playing the game as he once did.  It pains me to see natural talent such as Tiger has riding the roller coaster.  Whether you like him or hate him, there is no denying that Tiger is the single player that has done more to bring excitement and interest to the game than any anyone else who has picked up a club.

Randy Freisinger's picture

Submitted by Randy Freisinger (not verified) on

 

Not sure this is the best place to post this comment since it is not a direct reply to previous post.  I tried to start a new thread but for some reason I keep getting an error message.  Anyway, I wanted to share a  few quick comments on videotaping your swing that might be useful to those who have not yet tried filming their Surge Swing:  A
recent Golf Digest article says: Most amateur golfers are not emotionally
prepared to see what they look like when they play golf..." The considerable truth of
that aside, I taped my Surge swing recently and was absolutely amazed at what I
saw.  In my mind I thought I was doing the Surge Swing pretty well. 
In fact, I was not, and was quickly able to itemize five or six crucial
problems which enabled me to approach the next practice session with some
specific goals. My swing has improved in a very short time because of this
experience, and I recommend videotaping for all of you who have not yet done so.  I
used a Flip Ultra that Surge had mentioned last year.  Set it up on a
tripod and with a bit of tinkering was able to film myself pretty easily. This
objective eye really helps supplement the mind's eye, which I found to be a bit deceptive.

RandyF

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Hey Robert,
I'm sure my morals would hold up under the "pressure" of that salary. I just wish somebody would give me one year at that salary to prove it. Ha ha!

(Even a month's pay would be plenty for me). LOL

If I had more money the only thing I would do differently is that I would play a lot more golf and not worry about anything else.

I would still drive my 1995 truck and live in the same old house and play golf with my friends at Lil Mole and Desoto.

Oh, and I would buy another SwingRite to replace the one I lost.

(Simple Man).
I don't just listen to it, I live it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Don't misunderstand me. I don't doubt a bit that you hit 80% of the fairways. I was bragging on you because I'm lucky to hit half of them. I know several people that hit that many or more. The guy that owns Lil Mole probably only misses a handful a year. A miss to him is five yards off line. He shot a 26 one time on the back nine. I judge that course to be about 5 strokes easier than the other ones I play like Trenton or Brainerd.

70 is pretty good there and if the wind is blowing it's even better. My best was 64 there but normal is even to one or two over.

Was the front nine shut down when you were there? It was shut down most of the summer until recently and 18 was using the front green because the one across the lake was also shut down.

He is probably going to shut the back nine down for good next year and just have the front nine as a nine hole course.
He said he was going go to every fairway and hit his best tee shot and let the rough grow up everywhere past that point so the bombers wouldn't have an advantage. LOL

P.S. I don't know why somebody would leave their girlfriend because they were good at golf. I wish my wife was good enough to play on the LPGA. ;-)

T Medley's picture

Submitted by T Medley (not verified) on

Ah, King David, a man after God's own heart, according to the scriptures. Also a King who lusted after another man's wife, took her, impregnated her, then tried everything he could to cover it up. When he could not persuade the woman's husband to return home from battle and hopefully sleep with her so he would think the child was his, he decided to just send the man to the front line where he would surely be killed. Afterwards, he did the right thing and married the poor thing, which of course led to King Solomon. Another man who pleasured himself with everything imaginable under the sun, but found it all to be vanity, but that's another story.

PMG

Joseph Edwards's picture

Submitted by Joseph Edwards (not verified) on

Surge,  Can I comment that your picture of DJ above the ad for the golf schools shows hom overturning on the follow through with a locked left knee?  Is this a good advert for your swing teaching?

MikefromKy Go Bama. Go Irish's picture

Submitted by MikefromKy Go B... (not verified) on

Your probably right. i guess that would be a good way to get your fairways hit off the tee stats up. LOL

I went to the range tonight and was hitting a lot of unintended draws tonight. I sat down and thought about it for a few minutes and got up and went through the swing in slow motion and noticed that the face of my clubs were a little closed into the mitt and up.
So i started letting my forearms rotate in the one piece takeaway into the mitt toe up then up the tree sort of like DJ and let the hands drop from the top. i hit about 70 shots doing this never hit a shot left the rest of the time. I ended with hitting 7 iron started paying attention to the distance I was hitting it I was carrying it 175 with about 5 yards of roll up a slight grade to 180 was not swinging anywhere close to a 100%. i guess I had not been rotating the forearms enough or at all. I hit the slot pretty easy every time. I am going back Thursday after work and work on this some more to see if this a legit fix are not.
You know how it goes we think we find the holy grail in golf then it does not work the next time out. LOL       

JimmieJ's picture

Submitted by JimmieJ (not verified) on

SurgeFor sure Tiger and Couples and many many others would benefit from the vertical swing. I love your instructional videos and it has made a massivedifference for me. The free daily videos are great tips and reminders too.The instructor that I used to go to a long time ago wanted meflat, flatter, flattest. I had broke my L3, L4, L5 vertebrae in an auto accident 30years ago. They are compression fractures. I have much scar tissue and bone spurs.X-rays of it are a real mess. I have had additional surgery and steroidinjections.The around or rotational swing was killing my back and truthfully I quit golf ifthat is all I can do. I gave up due to pain. The great news is that I have none ofthose problems with the vertical swing.I had golfed only a few times in 8 years before I found your instructionalvideos. The promise of pain free gold is why I tried it. I have problems most peopledon’t have but I am pretty flexible and a strong swinger.So far so good with the vertical swing. I am not having the pain beyond normalmuscular pain and I am coming up on 55 years old. I am having no structural pain.I even have a left knee (I am right handed) that has cartilage damage but I haveno pain in it with the vertical swing.  Last weekend I took my 8 yr old daughter to a girls birthday party. The party was at the movie theater. All those little girls piled in to see "A Dolphin Tale", about a dolphinthat had his tail surgically removed as a result of entanglement with a crab trap and rope.The dolphin recovered and learned to swim by wiggling his stump from side to side.The marine doctors noticed in the dolphins X-rays that the constant side to side action was causing her spinal cord and nerves to become very inflamed. It was killing the dolphin.They faced putting him down instead of her suffering. Dolphins are supposed tomove their tail up and down (or vertical). They eventually got a VA hospital prosthetic doctorto come up with and fit the dolphin with a prosthetic tail. The dolphin re-learned to swim usinga natural up and down tail motion and that natural motion saved the animal’s life.How is that story for an analogy? I feel the same way with my old golf swing. The side to side or rotationalmovement and reverse C was killing me with sciatic nerve damage. I had to quit golf. The Surge Trahan vertical swing has allowed me to play again and pain free. I had been aslow as a 4 handicap with my old swing but I had long recovery time betweenpractices and playing. I am nowhere near a 4 right now but about a 12 and droppingfast. I am spending time with the short game as that is where my score suffers the most now.It will come back.Thank you so much for the swing instruction series and Daily Videos.I purchased the newer situational shots and working the ball videos and I am reallyexcited about golf again.

Bob Woods's picture

Submitted by Bob Woods (not verified) on

Hey Surge,

I have a suggestion for your opening line...How about?---"Surge here, Home on the Range".

What do you think?

Bob Woods

T Medley's picture

Submitted by T Medley (not verified) on

Sorry about your boy friend, but he sounds like a real jerk. He should be helping you to hit the tours and be your caddie. If he is that self absorbed, you are probably better off without him,

I happen to be single at the moment and would love to caddie for a nice young lady. We can talk marriage and children at a later date. We'll have to adopt though, I'm past the fathering stage.

On a more serious note, I wish you the best of luck as you strive to advance in this wonderful game we call golf.

PMG

Dick Lee's picture

Submitted by Dick Lee (not verified) on

Surge Nation

Hello everyone.  I have missed you folks so very much over the last 4 months.  I just wanted to let you know that this old cowboy is still alive and kicking.  Got thrown off my horse, but I am back in the saddle again.  Life goes right on.  Both of the boys are doing fine and are safe and sound.

I should be able to start getting back on line some now, and look forward to spending some evenings chatting with you all and catching up on all that is going on with you.

As always, you folks are all in my prayers.

I am actually going to play a round in the morning.  Look forward to posting my first after action report in a long time.

Talk to you all soon.

Keeping it vertical, and missing you all, in Oklahoma,
Dick

joepursel's picture

Submitted by joepursel on

I am 78 with shoulder problems (rotator cuff & shot in VN). Am slowly getting your system down, and recently pur oversized grips on driver & fairway woods.  A world of difference. Large grips seem to lighten the swing effort and a much lighter grip can be used to conrol the club--have really straightened out my drives. Also in wet grass (WA has a lot), much less shock when hitting from rough.

Joe Pursel

JULIAN GRACE SR's picture

Submitted by JULIAN GRACE SR (not verified) on

I'VE HEARD OF ALL KINDS OF REASONS TIGER WOODS IS PLAYING BAD. HIS BIG PROBLEM IS VERY SIMPLY THAT TIGER LIFTS HIS BODY A NANO-SECOND BEFORE CONTACT AND THAT OF COURSE LIFTS THE CLUB JUST A SMIGEON AND HE HITS TO THE FAR RIGHT OR FAR LEFT. TELL HIM THAT JULIAN GRACE SPOTTED THIS ERROR AND WANTS TIGER TO ADJUST. THAT'S HIS ONLY PROBLEM.  

Russty Kiwi's picture

Submitted by Russty Kiwi (not verified) on

If thats the best you can come up with, then I would'nt bother commenting if I were you. Can't you think of something positive or nice to say, or is that just the way you are???

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Yeah, I don't know if there's a holy grail but it sounds like you are doing well.
I don't think I ever hit 70 straight shots without going left. I'm usually pretty happy with two or three in a row. Ha ha!

I did do a drill last year where I got 100 yards from the area I mow as a green that's about a 30 foot circle and hit 100 golf balls to see how many I could get on the green. My record was 94. I need to do that drill some more.  I'm pretty sure that I can't do that again right now. I can't seem to keep my focus for that many shots.

Ronaldflesch's picture

Submitted by Ronaldflesch (not verified) on

Hi Alan
My take on Wodds and I should say Mister Woods is that golf oses
a lot of gratitude in my opinion golf was loosing is bright collors
and needed someone to take it too the next level, I think it is easy
to judge, forgetting all the pleasures he brought to the game
 to inspire so many young kids by itself would do it for me, but he
also made an old guy like me looking for answers. I wish he would
make a comeback but what he as given to golf in the past ten years
is what most professionels would be glad to achieve in their lifetime.
Just my humble opininon thank's for letting me share.
And thank you Don for all you bring to us.
I wonder if great people make good golfers or golfing
make great people for me what I like to hear on the course
is (I enjoyed Myself And woud to do it again)

Ron from Qc. Canada 

Robert Bgolfer2 Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Bgolfer2... (not verified) on

To really put ourselves in our shoes, we'd need to go back and live it from childhood, have the Talent and circumstances at 12 years old then developed into a young million air and then day after day live in a world that is unreal to most of us. Day after day and then year after year constantly have the money, praise, admiration, adultion, fan worship, anything and everything anytime and all the time.
Drive the same truck? Play the same golf course. You would have never sat in that ol truck or played that golf course. King David couldn't resist. Then travel all over the world and live a life the word no you can't is a rare occurrence. Yes take present world and our personal backgrounds and maybe, just maybe some of us could be the same good person. As I said we have no clue really. Am I saying that what he allowed to happen in his appearantly perfect life is excusable? No.
I do agree that in most cases power corrupts(to one degree or another) and absolute power disrupts absolutely.
Fortunately (or not) we will never have to make those choices and never have to answer those challenges. Again, I personally am pulling for him to have a turn around happier ending to one he'll of a ride.

ITSMERUTHY's picture

Submitted by ITSMERUTHY (not verified) on

Mr T

I am in no way good enough to play any tours and have no intention in doing so.
As far as marriage I don't know about all that besides you are probably old enough to be my grandad and that would be cradle robbing on your part. LOL
 

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Hey!!!!!!
Great to see you here again Dick. I hope you play great in the morning.

Robert F's picture

Submitted by Robert F (not verified) on

So lifting a nano-second early is what's tearing the ligaments of his knee apart?

MikefromKy Go Bama. Go Irish's picture

Submitted by MikefromKy Go B... (not verified) on

Steve
I hope this is what has been missing in my swing. I know up until tonight my hands at hip high the head of the club was to low at that point now letting the forearms rotate on the way back tonight the head of the club was at hip high with the hands and on the toe line before I bet I was getting the club to far inside before it went up.

I have been studying DJ'S swing through the bag for a long time trying to figure out what he was doing with his arms at the start of the BUS and it is rotating the forearms. I hope this takes don't really care if I am hitting 7 iron from 160 or 175 but this was easy distance and I will not complain about getting extra distance and every shot I hit just clicked of the club face . We will see how it goes Thursday. 

Boogm's picture

Submitted by Boogm (not verified) on

Robert, I  suppose we would have to assume trying to get back down in the next nano-second is what ruptured his achilles tendon too or perhaps it was all the bungie jumping?

JimmieJ's picture

Submitted by JimmieJ (not verified) on

My words run together without spaces in some places. That is not how I typed it. It came out that way when I posted. There is something going on witht the Reply feature in Disqus.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Ha ha! You don't know me or my culture.
And you certainly couldn't know whether my morals and beliefs could be bought.
There is a guy that lives close by that has multi-millions and he drives around in an old truck too.
(He does have a really nice house though).

ITSMERUTHY's picture

Submitted by ITSMERUTHY (not verified) on

Steve

A 8 handicap will not get you on any tour. For that matter it would not get you in any USGA events,

I just play for fun and a little money in skins games generally 50.00 a head skin games with the guys and yes they make me play the same tees as them but that's ok I win some and lose some. I am here just trying to get better at the PPGS..  

T Medley's picture

Submitted by T Medley (not verified) on

Dick,

What a pleasant surprise. Thought I'd take a final look at the blog before hitting the sack, low and behold, I see your post. I will not pressure you with the whys and wherefores of your absence, but I am glad to see you back. I hope that all is well with you and yours, and with that I say,  Good Night Dick.

MikefromKy Go Bama. Go Irish's picture

Submitted by MikefromKy Go B... (not verified) on

I am not Don but I would check ball position to see if it is to far back or you maybe teeing it to low.

Alansmithdc's picture

Submitted by Alansmithdc (not verified) on

Why is it that everybody is so concerned with Tiger Wood's golf swing?  He is a loser. and the past two years of PGA statistics prove that statement.  Tiger's problem is his moral compass.  It need massive recalibration, not his golf swing.  Who really cares?  If you do, you need some therapy.

Barnesollie B's picture

Submitted by Barnesollie B (not verified) on

Hi Dick, Glad to see you are back with us and hope you are keepig well. I don't post much, but read the blog every day and have missed your your quirky sense of humour as it always seemed to bring a light relief to the blogs and gave me an excuse to have a snack.
PMG. Ollie

MikefromKy Go Bama. Go Irish's picture

Submitted by MikefromKy Go B... (not verified) on

Dick

Good to here from you hope you can get back soon it sure has been quite around here without you.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

His foot probably wasn't flared very much when that picture was taken.
DJ himself said that he had a tendency to not flare the front foot enough and said his dad was constantly trying to get him to use more front foot flare.

Actually the position of his front foot in that picture is a reminder to me that if I don't flare the front foot I could end up in that position, and in the hospital.

DJ could pull it off because he doesn't have left knee or ankle problems and has the mobility and stability to do it, but he went to more foot flare recently because it was better for him.

If I ever had my foot planted in that position with my body facing the target I would be taking a trip to the hospital. That caused me to develop the bad habit of picking up my left heel in the back swing and putting it back down in  a flared position at the start of the FUS to protect myself.

Using the extra foot flare is helping to break that habit.

Robert Bgolfer2 Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Bgolfer2... (not verified) on

On my "smart" phone that corrects and picks words I don't want. Oops. Meant 'currupts absolutely' in my post above. Also we,d need to put ourselves in HIS shoes from childhood.

Pages