Good Wrist Action Is No Wrist Action, Part 11

CervezaFria,

Since multiple folks, including me, would like a copy of the video, Why not just post it to Utube, then give us the short cut link in a post. Just a thought.

Thanks DH, but I really believe if I stop adding anything to the swing (always think you can make it better), that I have the feel and simple set up to make this consistent.  The one idea that I need my idiot button for, is the takeaway.  I get too quick and excited, and I shorten the bus and collapse my arms, thus loosing the angle and end up slicing and losing distance.  Using the new stance, I just do a practice swing move down the toe line, and work to make my left arm really extend down the line, at which point I feel the muscle in my forearm/shoulder and then bump into the forward.  It makes it a really dynamic swing that has been missing for me.  GOOD LUCK on your next outing.  

Here's a little different slant on the Vertical Swing I happened across. If only he knew about the PPGS, he could have made a nice PPGS BUS with no problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Oh, forgot to add as long as the toes are on the toeline after the feet are flared, the best way would be to get used to the amount of flare needed then flare the feet to the toeline from the start instead of align feet parallel to toeline then flare which would make the aiming line align left. 

If that is what you were taught and it works for you, why are you on this blog? Am I correct that something is not working in your golf swing and you are looking for something better?

If so, you have come to the right place. However, you will have to forget everything that you were taught before. None of that will work with the Peak Performance Golf Swing (PPGS).

If you are capable of playing like Seve, or Jose Maria, or Angel, or Alvaro, or any others whom you may chose to emulate, then please play like them. I cannot play like that and choose to play like Don Trahan. I wish I had very powerful wrists like you describe. I could then make the PPGS even better than I do now.

Keep it vertical and down the middle.

For the word processing comedy I use Open Office which is a free download and can export and read a lot of formats.

I feel your pain on the job search. I used to make graphics for yardage books. With the economy and the explosion of electronic range finders that business is way down. The graphic skills I used won't generate any interest in print and most of the time 4 or 5 web programming languages are required.

You have to utilize everything which makes the clubhead go faster:I was taught to rotate fully and to use my wrists by the "Basque "and  Spanish teachers who taught me the game  .
Jose Maria OLAZABAL and before him Seve BALLESTEROS used their wrists very much.
To my knowledge and observation ,most Spanish and South American golfers Angel CABRERA ,Alvaro QUIROS ,one of the longest on the Tour ) use their wrists.
When you have played "Pelote Basque " ( "la pelota " )as a youngster your wrists are very powerful .Why not utilize them as long as you remain straight ,which my case  

Yes Heikki, I can comment
Instead of discussing the relevance or benefits of hinge, cock or flex & what action is best, consider this

If the wrists do nothing they are unlikely to do something stupid
If the wrists do nothing they will do the same thing every time
Doing identical "nothing stupids" every time sounds good to me

Discussion on this topic brings controversy but we are discussing "nothing"

Jack

Hi Charlie, the Surge has quite a few great articles regarding the 3P grip but the best one I've seen, IMHO, that really hit home about upward pressure on the grip was from Greg MacDonnell.  Alas I think it has been lost from the old PPGS archives.

But Don DOES "cock" his wrist.  He moves from distended to "punching" position in his backswing.  I have been holding or trying to hold the distended position.. or alternately, setting up in "punching" position because of the "no wrist movement is good wrist movement" statement.  Which is patently NOT TRUE.. just watch the video.  What works best if you go NO MOVEMENT at all is to stay in punching position, but what seems to work even better than that is to actually "cock" the wrist from distended to punching then release through impact. 

What I REALLY want to know is how does Don control the "roll"  from right wrist under to right wrist over  as he moves through impact area.  I keep catching my self "holding back" which is wearing out gloves as well as reducing power in the swing.. OR if I roll too far, causing big hooks...

Don.. How far do I roll and how do I keep from rolling too far?

Played today and did well!!  I kept my wrists firm and straight, stayed in the toe line.   Only had three bad shots, 18 holes, bad shots, I mean, hit the ground really bad, lost my grip on a drive, sometimes I do that, don't know why, my putting could have been better!!  It was very windy here, so, IM not really good playing the wind.

Thanks for all your help, see what I do tomorrow.  OH, 20ft. behind the red, on the green with a nine iron, good for me!!   Pretty darn close to pin too, but, missed my putt....

Left hand, should thumb be at 12:00 or 1:00 and what about right hand thumb?

Marilyn, started playing golf spring of 2006!

What does the right wrist do? I have a problem keeping my right wrist from cupping, and I sometimes cast my shot because I can't keep my right wrist flat.

Some good points Steve, thanks, it's helping me to think through this. The weight transfer might be the issue, coupled with timing of the bump, it's possible that sometimes I'm reaching the top of the 3/4 limited turn without having started the bump yet. Need to get my (recent) swing on video.

I've been focusing on keeping my nose at the ball and firm wrists on the grip, along with swinging up to the T-finish and I'm getting somewhat good, but inconsistent, results. Funny thing was, I went to the driving range before my round yesterday and was hitting these beauty little draws that went a mile long, from short irons right through to driver, but that didn't stay with me when I went to play on the course.

Still searching for that swing thought that will make these things work properly.

cheers

Dragon, are you telling us you are not the tart you used to be ?

Good luck, I hope you all have good rounds.

The right wrist should never be over or under but along side. That's what palms perpendicular throughout the swing does.

As far as you can hit it I would try a 64 degree instead of backing off the 60. Also Dave Pelz touts swinging to certain positions so that each wedge can be hit more precisely. You can also check Phil Mickelson's club choices were he loads up with the wedges and drops clubs closer to the driver as he gets to par 5 holes without needing a 3 wood.

Thanks Surge and Bruce for clearly explaining and endorsing a swing thought that I've been using for a while.   I take my 3P grip and activate the muscles in my hands and forearms with a neutral firm and buffed tone.    I maintain that buffed muscle tone throughout the swing without letting my arms get "loosy goosy" or tensed up and I don't think about whether my wrists are moving about or whatever but just swing my arms up the BUS and then up the FUS.  Regards, Craig

Craig and Charlie,

I have that video saved on my laptop. I can send it to either of you if you need it

The swing thought that has tied in all these things for me is one that consistently triggers the timing and amount of the bump. All I have to do is focus on shifting weight to the little toe of the forward foot to trigger the bump and forward upswing.  After and perhaps even while completing the backward upswing my only thought is T-Finish. For me the T part of T-Finish triggers the move to the little toe and the Finish part just happens. In other words, you might say to yourself Toe- Finish. I know that it might sound a little funny,but it works.

Hank, there's a problem with these analogies teachers use
Examples -
An axe & a hammer have their striking surfaces at their edges
A golf club head has it's striking surface on its side

Try using a hammer or an axe with any forearm rotation & you'll see why these analogies don't translate

Jack

Where does the power come from? No wrist cock &little if any rotation

It's controled rotation. I just spent 3 days with him in person, no he does not "cock" his wrist.I witnessed this up close as i actually got to play with him on the golf course. His swing and results are a beautuiful thing to see.

Robert,
I recollect Surge saying that heels on a left parallel line is o.k. Maybe I'm wrong.Surge also says a golf swing has no dispensation from the laws of physics and that what goes around comes around. As a result if the left foot is flared WITHOUT the heel remaining in its original position, the setup will be biased to the left and a hook the likely result.

Craig--why is it called the 3P grip?  I've seen this nomenclature before but have not seen an explanation of it.

Surge

Best explanation yet.  Heading to the course with that thought planted firmly in my beady little brain.  Thank You.

Lynn42

Marilyn, if you want the best advice for your proper grip then go up to the "search posts" on the right of the first blog comments, type in "grip" and click on the green + icon.

A tip from me:
Take your left hand and crimp your fingers slightly like you're holding a piece of rope loosely.

Lay the club grip in the crimp at a slight angle, the top of the grip should lay between the bottom crease and first crease of the pinky finger with about 1/2" overhang.  The grip should sit between the the first crease and top crease of the pointy finger.

Before you close your left hand hold the club with your right hand straight out in front of you horizontally and check that the club face is square by looking at the bottom edge of the club.

Close your left hand and your thumb should come over to the 1 o'clock position.  You should also feel a slight upward pressure from the last three fingers on the grip.

With your right hand open bring it across to the left and fit the crease at the base of the right hand thumb ball neatly over your left thumb.

Close your right hand and either overlap your right pinky with your left pointy or interlock them.

Your right thumb should come over to the 11 o'clock position and rest on top of your right pointy.

Activate your muscles in your hands to make a firm but not overly tense grip and allow the muscles in the forearms to activate in a firm manner as well.

Maintain this muscle tone of the hands and forearms throughout the swing.

Regards, Craig

In the BUS and through impact, the right wrist (for a right handed player) will cup some. It's physically impossible to keep both wrists flat while holding an object unless they are directly in front of your body. The forward wrist should remain flat from address through impact, at which point the rear wrist straightens out and the forward wrist cups slightly as you go into the forward mitt and up the forward tree to the T-Finish. This was all covered in Surge's last "The Best Wrist Action is No Wrist Action" video.

Thanks, Steve, but I really can't take credit for it.I think it was something that Doc mentioned in a reply during one of the earlier wrist cock rounds, I forget the number at the moment.{ smirk}. Maybe, it's my own anatomical make-up but when I deviate my wrists at set-up I have to ,for lack of the proper term and it's 5am and I'm pooped, reset...no that isn't what was the word Bruce used..dunno, fist it, clinch it,you know what I mean. but I have to do that or when I get to the top of the BUS my shaft is at about 10:00 o'clock from face on. So if I do it like I mention in the reply the other day as I come into the mitt and get to the top I'm pretty much were it needs to be and lite.Not much of a movement back to the natural, maybe 3/8ths of an inch to get me there. Grip is pretty much where it should be for me, as well......RTR

Yes, I have eaten Gator that was fried in some sort of batter similar to a fish batter. I have no idea what the batter was composed of, but as I recall from about 20yrs ago, it was rather tasty.

I do believe I'd prefer the Hog Roast above any reptile.

Robert-very cool you got to see it all up close.
Don has one very unique and effective swing.
The comments at 6:20 on this video are interesting.Let's read between the lines a bit.When DJ gets to the top, (actually Don too) and when the shaft is stressed,and when sequencing starts and the body starts to changes direction, a good part that energy must go through the...wrists at some point. And if you are cupped or bowed at this point, you are in big trouble.And if you fight to stop all that energy from where it is going, you are locked up.This may bring some resolution to those who believe there IS a hinge:Ok. Yup. That wrist was loaded, dare I say "nominally hinged" for a micro-second.It was not cupped or bowed, and certainly was not cocked.But please, it certainly doesn't look like anything in the mainstream. So... will that convince 'em?  Nope.A golfer convinced against their will is of the same opinion still.Looking forward to Part 12.

Go use a demolition hammer and cock your wrists. Make sure your health insurance is paid up though!

Great topic, the hand action through the impact zone is something that I struggle with often at some point during a round. Does anyone have any thoughts on what controls the timing of the hands rolling over or "rotating" through impact (4:10 in the video)? My struggle is often with the hands rotating too early just before impact creating an outside-in swing path and the dreaded slice. When this happens, it feels like my right arm (back arm, I'm a righty) is getting a little on top of my left, creating an early release (?).

thanks
RT

Quick update;
After the excellent Clinic with DJ today we played day one of the tournament.Deej is looking awesome and was puring them to the back of the range. He is very excited about his game right now so look for him to play well in Las Vegas this week. The good news, Both Amos and Dan Gains played very well on a tough layout that they saw for the first time. I did not do very well today but learned alot. Lessons in life can be painful. Played basically terrible the front nine and 13 strokes better on the back. No I'll spare you my score, ouch!!
What I am learning are all the areas I need improvement. For me though what I am getting the most out of is how genuine and helpful Don Trahan is. Just a real privelage to get to know him. This man knows his stuff. Oh BTW, Greg, Lynn, and Surge all actually played today too. Why not, these Pete Dye layouts are great and the condition of the courses, fairways and greens are plush. I watched Surge pure the ball on nearly every swing. Had he not missed a few putts that just slipped by the hole today he would have posted a really low score.  Missed an eagle putt by an inch or so. As it was I think he had 2 birdies and 3 bogies balanced by pars for a one over 73. Could have been much lower easily. I watched his set up routine shot after shot and it is the same every time. His alignment is perfect as far as I can tell. Hopefully his play and directives are starting to sink into my thick skull. I will say this. He lives what he preaches about this swing. If anyone doubts at all his advice and teaching just talk to Amos or Dan or any of the other lucky guys here this week and you'll soon agree more than ever that we are all with the right golf instructor.

Thanks Smith, for keeping it real.

I too wish it translated to more distance with the driver.
I'm straight and short.

So it is, grasshopper.

While playing with an LPGA player/instructor a few weeks ago
I had some very good feedback from her:
"Nice shot. You're in the fairway."

Enough said.

Surge & Bruce, thanks for the most comprehensive daily to date on the wrist-cock question.
So simple a boilermaker could understand it.Of course, I've already forgotten most of the terminology (oops) but have filed this one away for safe keeping.
 For all of my friends enjoying the golf tourney and all in Las Vegas, I'm envious and tickled for all of you and hope you're all are having the time of your golfing lives. I just dropped another dollar in change into the jar,hoping that the Lord allows me the opportunity to attend one next year.

The Windmill Swing...lol. Talk about velocity at impact.

Boogm, you are correct when you say "comprehensive". 
This brings some clarity. Bruce C is a credible and knowledgeable
addition here. A few lapel microphones and it's getting better.
(btw....May your dollar jar be full enough for next year.)

Flat wrist is actually not completely flat. That helps.
Still working on adequate grip and "firm" enough wrists, forearms,
which to me is still a bit subjective. 

Close ups-thank you. And slo-mo too? thank you.
That signature swing in slo mo would be a great close to each video.

Simply Golf

Nominally hinged, yes, but NOT "cocked"......as in traditional instruction.
Part of the problem here is trigger words. 

So what is up with the run on sentences? All my paragraph breaks disappear
for some reason when I reply here. Any theories anyone?

It's likely you were previously having the problem Boog mentioned Doc correcting in his swing. Forgetting that the pop tart out of the toaster is AFTER impact. You don't want to be popping your toaster before the toast is in.

Charlie the 3P grip can refer to two meanings:

Firstly, from the Foundations Manual, the proper definition of the 3P grip refers to how you grip the club:
1. with the Power or leading hand
2. with the Passive or trailing hand 
3. with the proper grip Pressure

It also can refer to the grip as having your palms Perpendicular to the ground, torso and target.

To take into account both meanings I follow the Surge's lead and refer it as the palms perpendicular 3P grip.

Just back from shopping after sneaking in about 45minutes on the practice hole. First shot was a pull [not aimed really naughty boy]. From then on I aimed every shot as I had been doing late in yesterday's session. Distance consistent. Accuracy SUBLIME 8 iron only 110yds consistently.Much shorter than I used to, but I will take that any time. Back into the sun at my flag into a stiff breeze [pin stake with bright blue towel] I set up at 90yards. One ball pushed [lost it in lush rough, didn't see blinded and lost it in the sun.Still started with 3 balls, home with 7!; - ],  the other two were 3feet and 5feet from the pin dead in line with it from the set up position 90yards away. One 3feet from the pin and the other 5feet over it.
My confidence in accuracy is now much better. The to quick pop up was like you Kevin until I stopped rushing the takeaway. The difference is unreal.
Robert F Quite possibly too quick lifting my idiot head and upper body.
All your comments are appreciated Surgites. Roll on green coring finish and let me at it.