You've probably heard golfers mention "the slot" before. This is basically the path from the top of the backswing to impact. The goal is to actually feel the club "drop" into the slot after you begin the bump. The two are connected, so it's important to understand how to make them both work to your advantage.
Robert Meade is one of my earliest and most dedicated followers, so he certainly knows his stuff when it comes to the Peak Performance Golf Swing. However, he wrote in to ask if I could go over the correlation between the bump and the slot. He's been working hard to get the feeling of dropping the club into the slot. He even came up with a drill to help his mental memory ingrain the feeling of a correct bump.
Surge,
If you could, please do another daily on the bump and how it applies to the the slot.
I have become re-energized recently to finally ingrain the bump and stop my tendency of coming over the top and across. While experimenting with fresh determination to use the bump more effectively, I had some ahah! discoveries a few days ago on my back yard driving range. My challenge, and I am guessing this may be the case for many other Surgites out there, is not in making sure I avoid getting too laid off in transition (as you say you fight this with your right hand) but rather avoiding making the loop in the opposite manner- out and over. You have said and demonstrated many times how after going back 3/4's and vertical you fight not becoming too laid off. Again I have always fought coming forward with an out and over move and not under and slightly laid off which all great players seem to do. I am convinced this is largely due to starting the FUS with the shoulders and not from the ground up by bumping first. I know you have talked about this many times, however perhaps you could do so (again) in the light of the difficulty many of us still have with the lateral bump and getting into that slotted position. I have been determined to drop in and not over while bumping and wow has it made a huge difference, especially with the driver. A few of the great side effects are that my distance off the tee is back, I am no longer fighting a slice and, in fact, am starting to see the draw that I have always wanted. The other benefit has been that it seems easier to swing up vertically over the front shoulder rather than across and left in the finish.
I have started to ingrain it with a drill I now do 3 times before my actual swing through the ball. I set up in the Master Set Up position and then start back and as I reach the top, I drop in as I bump doing this slowly until I come back to the ball and stop before impact. I do this 3 times, simulating what the move feels like. Then I do this with a complete swing and am very happy with the results. In order to start feeling the lower body start the transition and the club drop under, I have had to exaggerate the move but am now gradually making it more subtle as my stubborn body adjusts. I also want to gradually do this through the rest of my bag.
Any observations and further suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Your #1 fan
Robert Meade
Robert has made some very astute observations about his swing and I'm glad he's finding success with the bump. The best way I can describe how to bump is by telling you three things you absolutely cannot do if you want to bump correctly.
You cannot bump if:
1. You're aimed to the right (right hander) or aimed to the left (left hander)
2. Your stance is too wide.
3. You are still playing with the thought of hitting down on the ball. It's hard to bump with that thought because it tends to trigger the upper body to move forward. You get out of sequence and will very likely start coming over the top.
The club just needs to drop once you reach the top of your backswing. It will do this when you execute the bump. When you bump, the club has a natural tendency to get laid off, which is why your right hand (or left hand for a lefty) must fight the club from becoming heavy. Keep the club as vertical as you can when you make the transition. It will drop in to the slot slightly laid off, but only a tiny amount.
Check out the video for some visual help on the proper timing of the backswing and the bump. I'm confident it will help you find the slot!
Keep it vertical!
The Surge
If you can't view the YouTube video above try CLICKING HERE. You must allow popups from this site for the link to work.
Comments
Bump and the slot
Thank you Surge!
I was really pleased to see this question addressed. You did go into great detail and I hope that it helps not only myself but the 1000's of other players out there that may continue to be looking to finally get past coming out and over the top and getting unwanted slices and pulls. This really is the 'magic move' that separates hackers from better players. It is also i feel why 'old guys can still get some great distance off the tee. Trust me I don't have it down but am getting there. Looking at the three bumping challenges Surge mentioned; Alignment, stance width and "hit instinct" I feel in my own case it is only #3 that I am challenged by. Not the wanting to hit down but the 'hit the ball instinct" you mentioned does pop it's ugly head. That along with wanting to pound the ball and being very upper body dominant by nature.
A couple of points Surge mentioned really were excellent such as "feeling the drop or freefall' and "feel the hands coming under the neck not out in front of the face". Wow, never heard him put in that way in this context. That's a great visual for me. Too the way he demonstrated just pumping at the top rather than coming all the way up to the ball. Then he tied that into the secondary spine tilt around the 11:40 point of the discussion. That's real biggy for me. What I discovered that just stopping at the top and bumping laterally puts us into the secondary spine tilt and drop the club slightly laid off (about the 10 minute mark). That is the feeling and mini motion I am now pumping at the top a few times before taking full swing. Unlike Surge though I have no current need to fight getting laid off in transition but rather I am embracing the slight lay off move and feeling. I will re-watch this one several times and practice that little move at the top Surge demoed today.
Simply awesome Surge. I hope this daily helps some others out there too.
Bumping the Slot
Robert, I really think this is the magic move in golf.
When Surge was over here last month he saw how my head was still behind the ball well after impact and was trying to get me to "poptart". After several frustrating hits, I decided to get my hips forward as early as possible and hit a couple of bullets. I told Surge that it felt like I was coming off the ball well before impact, but he confirmed that it looked OK and just remember that feeling, no matter what it felt like. Last couple of weeks have been putting it into practise and my golfing buddy said yesterday, he has never seen me hit the ball straighter or longer. I'm starting to think I can!!!!!! play golf at last.
The slot swing
Robert,
Thanks for asking the question and what a great answer it was! Not too technical at all. This magic move and learning a way to time it is the key to hitting good shots. Everyone has to find their own way of doing it.
The solution for me, has been to find a way to subdue the bump and focus on an upper body throwing motion. All I have to do now, is delay the FUS shoulder turn long enough to allow the drop and the bump to start happening. Something that works for me, is focusing on where the right shoulder blade is at the top of the BUS and keeping it there for an instant while slightly dropping/relaxing it to trigger the FUS. I get the same feeling at this point in the swing, as is produced with Surge's pump drill. This move along with the goal of swinging up to the T-Finish, automatically triggers the bump and secondary spine angle tilt.
Dave's tip works for me as
Dave's tip works for me as well. As Surge was providing his very detailed explaination of the feeling of the slot, I found myself doing virtual practice swings with the right shoulder blade focus at the top of BUS, and I was checking off each of the points Surge was making; the feeling of the club dropping into the slot with the bump is the same as Surge described. That said, I really like the looks of the 1-2-3 drill Surge was demonstrating in the video, think I'll be giving that a try as well once we thaw-out here in Ottawa, maybe using a pre-swing drill like that will improve my mental memory.
I'm just seeing this now after watching the Feb 28 Daily, thanks Robert for providing the link from there, and BTW, great email question!
Shoulder blade focus
Hi Todd,
I'm in Victoria B.C. now, on vacation and have been able to get a few rounds in.
That shoulder blade idea is working extremely well. I've had enough time to refine the move to something very simple and easy to repeat. The important thing for me is to feel that there is no hurry to the BUS or the slotting of the club. My tempo words for this part of the swing are SLOW--SLOW. The bump and transition takes care of itself if my focus is on the shoulder blade moving back and up and down slowly as in the pump drill. The rest of the swing is simply a matter of getting my left index finger to the left ear thumbs up position ( t-Finish) as quickly as I can with good rhthym. All shots are solid and straight and very cleanly hit. No more of that over the top stuff!
Bump and Slot
Surge and Robert:
Thanks for this dailie.
Finally starting to make sense.
Love this swing!
Phillips
Bump and Slot
Thanks to both Robert and Surge for this very helpful video. Like many others, I struggle with both concepts, and I'm also inclined to start the FUS with my shoulders (I'm a lefty) instead of my lower body. The tips in this video are something I can practice indoors in front of a mirror while I wait for the snow that keeps on coming to melt.
On a separate note, I was paging through an earlier copy of GolfWorld (August 26, 2013) and came across a column by Jaime Diaz on Jason Dufner, whose coach is Chuck Cook. For those of you who have not seen the column, let me share one bit. Cook told Dufner a story about being allowed to watch Hogan hit balls for two days back in 1980. He stresses how Hogan barely took a divot: "His club barely touched the grass, so you couldn't really tell where he had practiced, except for the deep impressions made by his feet." Sounds as if Hogan and Surge were on at least one important same page. Thanks again for the very useful video. It gave me insight and I'm sure others as well.
Randy F
Houghton, MI
Good One Robert
Thank you Robert for adding a new dimension to the Bump issue for us and getting some new insights from you and Surge. I have always enjoyed reading your responses and insights so it was great to see Surge respond to you. The concepts tie in nicely with a recent group session I attended in Phoenix with Dave Seeman. I was diagnosed with varying degrees of the three areas named by Surge which restrict you from doing a correct bump. The routine for practicing the drop is a nice, easy one to reinforce.
Kevin McCarthy
Slot
Surge has a good golf swing so ingrained that he can't help but get the shaft lined up with his back forearm (like few of us do well) even when he's not even thinking about it at all and is just talking and demonstrating other things.
shaft forearm lineup
Steve, I've been following your quest to get that alignment. At first I wasn't even sure that I understood what you were trying to do. But then I think in one of your videos you showed you and Surge in stills, or some such. It was enlightening. Anyway, I think to do it (Surge is just a natural I'm sure) you have to let the club lay off a little more in the drop than you'd think by Surges admonition to fight it. Unfortunately Ohio weather has ended my quest to get it right for another year. One thing I did try that seemed to help was liken the FUS to cracking a whip at the bottom when I release and pull up. Rather than thinking hit up all the way which I think caused me to release early rather than drop first.
Dale S.
Line up
All good players do it and almost all bad players don't do it.
Some good players get it lined up early, some late, some with the shaft extending behind the body from a DTL view (rotational players). Some with the shaft in line but the club head only extending to about the elbow from a DTL view (vertical swingers). Some with the forearm angle higher and some lower and some in between. Some with lots of lag and some with little lag.
They get there in many different ways but they get there.
I feel like I am getting that down pretty well now and I am working on keeping the right hip at impact closer to the same vertical line in a DTL view as it was at set up while being forward in a FO view, and all without losing any power. Always something.
End of year, DJ?
Another good daily Surge that drill is something I will try as most of my misses are caused by the over the top move (you are not alone Rob!). The weather in Mchigan has been PU aka COLD so the clubs are in the basement. I played Maple Lane twice - once in Oct before my trip: shot 90 play OK, short game so-so, putting not so good. Second time played 29 holes 1st week of Nov. Played well, struck it great considering have not played in 3 weeks. The driver and 4 wood I got fit for by Greg Courtnay have been excellent - hope to get fit for the rest of the bag next season.
Last - what is going on with DJ? Is not playing the Web.com Q-School this week. Is his status already determined?
Thanks again to Surge and all of the Surgites for a great season.
Jerry - Warren, MI
DJ
Jerry, I would have thought that Brady would have answered this by now. Don has stated to me that DJ is exempt for the Web.Com tour for the 2014 season which starts in Feb.
Hal
Sorry... I been sick for
Sorry... I been sick for almost two weeks and just got back from visiting family to include Don. Hal is right though. DJ is already full exempt for Web.com in 2014.
Hi Hal
Hey, haven't seen your name in a while. Hope all is well in the South. Merry Christmas.
Dan
Canadian Dan
Hi Dan, I am on the blog every day 8 to 10 times reading and analyzing the comments. Have not been commenting much lately. Like Brady I have been house bound with a severe chest and head cold for a week Was able to get out today to the grocery store to restore the pantry. Did get to suck up some fallen oak leaves that have been on the ground for about three weeks because of rain and sickness. Other than that health is fine but golf game sucks right now. Having trouble with the irons on full shots, woods and short game is saving me.
Merry Christmas & watch the snow fall.
Hal
Fly southwest yet?
Hi Dan,
Hope your well and having a nice Holiday season. Did you take your Arizona golf trip yet? This week in Las Vegas we are blessed with highs around 50-55 and no wind with lots of sun.
Greens and holed putts, Robert M.
SOUTHWEST
Phoenix week was great, loved it. Sandra and Iwill be in Vegas in late January, Maybe we can get together for some golf?
Holiday Season and snow came early here, Almost a foot of the white stuff.
Enjoy your great weather.
Dan
Golf anyone?
Dan,
H**L yes!! Let me know when you're coming and Cindy and i will join you and Sandra for a round of small ball:) Do you still have my e mail? if so let me know the details that way. We'll look forward to it.
Humana
DJ will be playing in the Humana tournament in Palm Springs (former Bob Hope tourny) in the 3rd week of January as a past champion.
keys to "IT"
Who ever out there wants to feel what gave me the "aha" and practice it should replay (perhaps several times) what Surge says and shows from about the 10 minute mark to about 10:10. those 10 seconds sum up for me the Holy Grail of how to 'get' that move ingrained. As Surge says in part, "And what happens when you bump? The secondary spine angle has the whole right side drop..... a little slide AND IT DROPS." IT drops. It, the club and club head automatically moves into the ideal position if (and that's the BIG IF) we bump or slide laterally first. That little move of one or two inches with the hips and the little lay off loop that happens in that split of a micro split second is the key to "IT" the magic move that gets us in the slot and on path. Watch and listen a few times if you also face this challenge. For several years I gave up on the bump and like several others just said the bump just happens. Well for me that was not always the case. The bump must happen and while learning it not by chance but just as illustrated by Surge in that 10 second segment. Keep in mind it is the bump (lower body) that must move first THEN the "it drops" can happen. I hope this makes sense to every one who really want to learn this and change from what Jerry describes above. "Most of my misses are caused by the over the top move" said Jerry. Again I think he speaks for the majority of golfers. Good luck to all and thanks for the thoughtful comments. i hope this stirs more interest and further comments and questions.
Hit UP and NOT DOWN
Surge,
I'm a committed advocate of the PPGS. I keep telling my son that you don't have to turn yourself into a pretzel to hit the ball well. BUT the one aspect of your method I have trouble with is the admonition to not hit down on the ball but rather to hit up " like a Pop Tart" to the T-Finish. This sounds like a recipe for hitting the ball thin or even topping it. I have always taken thin divots-never the beaver-pelt variety. But I have always had to remind myself to " stay down on the ball " and to hit " down and through " the ball as they used to say. It seems to me that there has to be some element of hitting down. Your comments please. Gary - Lakefield, Ontario, Canada
spine and posture
Gary,
While I understand your challenge of staying down I have learned it is much more productive to think in terms of maintaining ones posture and spine angle not down or head down. The head and arms come up if our good angle raises and that brings the head and arms with it.If you stay in posture longer swinging up it produces sweet high long shots. The swing is an arc and if you follow this and all the other set up advice from Surge you will strike the ball just before the bottom of the arc which will be just past the ball as the club continues it's natural path up. So no you don't have to consciously hit down or stay down. That will happen as a by product of a stable spine and knees.
spine and posture
Gary,
While I understand your challenge of staying down I have learned it is much more productive to think in terms of maintaining ones posture and spine angle not down or head down. The head and arms come up and out of our good angle and that brings the head and arms with it.If you stay in posture longer swinging up it produces sweet high long shots. The swing is an arc and if you follow this and all the other set up advice from Surge you will strike the ball just before the bottom of the arc which will be just past the ball as the club continues it's natural path up. So no you don't have to consciously hit down or stay down. That will happen as a by product of a stable spine and knees.
Dont hit, just swing
Is better to not think about hitting up or down , but rather to swing up to the T finish, & just let the ball get in the way. If you focus on hitting the ball only, then thats where your swing will finish. I should know because I fight the urge to hit the ball often. I can make perfect practice swings, but as soon as I line up the ball , all is forgotten with the urge to hammer the ball. Better results come from making perfect practice swings, & just letting the ball get in the way. Good luck Gary
The Bump and The Slot
Don,
Thanks so much for this GREAT VIDEO TIP!
Working on the Peak Performance golf swing the past two years, I have found myself trying to improve by concentrating too much on individual aspects (like weight shift, grip, backswing, bump, etc.) rather than relaxing and putting it all together as a natural, and balanced, single set of fluid motions.
Nothing wrong
Theres nothing wrong with concentrating on individual aspects of the swing, as we are learning it. Just like a big puzzle, we need to get all the pieces in place. Our confidence will come once all the pieces are in place. I use all my concentration on 2 things. 1 is my pre shot routine, & the other is tempo, or rhythm
The Natural Bump
I agree that the bump is an essential move whether it is mechanical, or just happens, to support the skipping a rock move of the FUS. When it was a more mechanical move for me I had too much tendency to try to hit the ball with an aggressive bump and neglect my arm swing. It was very easy to get ahead of the ball with an open club face at impact and and miss right. I needed a way to drop the club in the slot, keep my head behind the ball and shoulders square at impact, while the lower body shifted laterally.
In an effort to make sure that I do an arms and shoulders swing and not a lower body dominated swing, my key for the FUS is to first delay for an instant the turning of the right shoulder blade from where it was at the top of the back swing. This very effectively allows time for the bump, the drop to the slot and eliminates the over the top move of the right shoulder.
This delaying of the shoulder turn while the lower body leads the FUS is a commonly taught method that I think is easier to do with the Surge swing than the rotational swing which involves a lot more more torque.
New subject
This is from Golf Magazine and should be taken with the usual grain of salt because articles like this sell magazines. The article puts forth an argument that a person's best downswing swing plane is determined by the relative length of their trail forearm. Roughly speaking, people are naturally low,mid or high track swingers. The simple test they describe, coincidentally, would classify me as a a high-track swinger. According to the article a hi-track swinger would do best with an upright swing plane through impact. The interesting part for me, was that they recommended that the FUS, be a right shoulder dominated move and not a lower body or mid body dominated one. A good feeling for the hi-track player is that "the right shoulder is turning under the chin with the left shoulder higher than the right as you stike the ball."
http://mikeadamsgolf.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Cover_Swing_Tracking1.pdf
Simple test
Dave,
Wouldn't the 'simple test be more accurate if you just measured elbow to knuckles and then your elbow to shoulder? The article was interesting but seemed to not clearly show where the thumb pointed on any body. Especially on the three young people. notice that the lady ha great posture, the kid in the middle almost seems to be slumping on purpose and the third has his elbow moved out further and that raises the forearm length and result. Not a real scientific way to measure or is it me? From what I could tell I am a high tracker. Still not sure. I might be missing something.
"Simple ? "
Robert,
My elbow sticks out a bit from the shoulder, like the high track example,if I place it just inside the shirt seam against the rib-cage. Maybe they do it this way to account for postural and body differences. The pictures of the professionals are probably better than the simple test examples. In order to make it easier to see, I had my wife take a photograph. My right forearm and hand position looked identical to that of Camillo Villegas and Martin Kaymer. Unfortunately, that is where the resemblance stopped. Hahaha!! Both of these players appear to have relatively long forearms.
New subject
This article you are referring to is basically taken from the Book Laws of Golf by Dr. T.J. Tomasi and Dr. Jim Suttie . I have the book at home and have read it. It talks about the leverage swinger, Arch swinger, and a width swinger. I do not know if this matches up with Don's Thinking at all but it is a good read.
http://www.golftipsmag.com/instruction/faults-and-fixes/lessons/laws-revisited.html
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1221233.The_Laws_Of_The_Golf_Swing
Laws of golf
Thanks Mike, for the very interesting links. The Tomasi web site has a lot of good technical swing information. One of his articles ties in very well with what I've been using lately as a trigger for slotting the downswing.
The Scapula Tuck©
TJ Tomasi
A Major Key
"While your shoulder blades can work together as when you hunch your shoulders forward [extension] or draw them back [retraction] to stand at Marine attention, they can also move in opposite directions from the spine as they do during your best golf swings, the ones with the maximum coil.
Once you are in position at the top, the trigger starting down occurs when your trail scapula compresses against your spine a motion called retraction – it moves toward the spine and down. This accomplishes several things in concert with other members of your kinetic chain: [1] it drops your trail shoulder and the club downward into the delivery channel [2] it prevents over-the-top where the right shoulder spins out toward the ball [3] it allows the club-shaft to stay on the plane angle [4] it positions the upper body to take advantage of the pelvic pistol [5] it pre-stretches the power muscles [6]
it takes advantage of the rotational action of the spines vertebrae that provide truck rotation leading to coil. As you can see a lot of good is done by a relatively small move at just the right time. Remember you have only about half a second from the top to impact so redemption is minimal if the scapula tuck is absent or mis-timed. "
http://www.tomasigolf.com/videos-and-instruction.html
Laws of golf
Laws of Golf I think is legitimate teaching but does call for a full shoulder turn.
I fit into the width swing. It calls for a wide stance, closed stance to the target line which helps to get to a full shoulder turn which with the ppgs we do not want. It also calls for the arms to further away from the body than up in the BUS about waist high or a little higher. I tried this for a while but I find Don's method much easier to perform with a few tweaks within the boundaries. I have always been a vertical swinger. I taught myself from Jacks Golf My Way when I took up the game. We just have to find what works best for us.
tweaks
Mike,
I too basically learned golf from my Dad and then Golf My Way. Now I feel i am fine tuning and having a few breakthroughs too.
Hope your Christmas season is good in bluegrass country. Did you have a look at Brendon De Jonge's swing? Made for the fade:)
Scapula and other notes....
Dave,
Again you give us some great references to ponder and digest. Wow, this TJ has some wonderful ways of making the deepest nuggets understandable. The one about Freddy Couples is so spot on, how he "lays off the gas" in transition. That even a small amount of effort from the top can be too much and mess up the orbit. You and Mike have given me some reading to add to my growing list. Love it.
Thanks
As I said earlier, Surges audience is deeper than he may guess. We thrive on the meatier points of possible improvement.
Nice reads
Mike,
Good to hear from you. It is cool that our latest topics have brought on some great responses. I think the average Surge audience (reader) may be deeper and more golf knowledgeable than Surge realizes. The article in your first above reference shows that the dropping into a shallower arc does not always apply as in the case of the endomorph. I thought of a great example in Zimbabwe's Brendon De Jonge. He swings very flat in the BUS and very steep in the FUS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmCyC3Pjg9k
Logically he plays a fade most of the time. He is among the 1% on tour that loop in to out in transition. His is controlled and highly practiced. I like most amateurs come over the top because of not using the lower body correctly and sequencing as I should, hence my new practice routine to ingrain the out to in. As your references show, body type can influence what works best for each individual.
Great question - great answer!
Snowfall this Satuday will likely end my 2013 season; the third full PPGS season. I too sliced the driver and dead-pulled everything else between rare good shots. This is absolutely the key. Surge's assertion that the first half of the FUS is "free, just let it happen," Is only true if you bump correctly. I can't watch Breed or Martin Hall on golf channel anymore unles it's a short-game show. I'm sold more than ever on the PPGS. Though I didn't make my goal of getting my index below 15 (15.8) in 2013, my 2014 goal is to get below 11. I think I can do it, and hope to take as much money from my friends getting from 16 to 10.x as I did getting from 26 to 16. Thanks for the question, Robert and thanks for the enlightening answer, Don. Merry Chrisas to Surge nation!
Mastering the Bump
Just back from my indoor practice session at the local superdome. Today I focused on Don's bump and slot video of yesterday. By focusing on ensuring my club was straight up the tree on the backswing and letting hands and clubs drop straight down, the bump occurred naturally and laterally towards the target, setting the stage for the club to drop back on it's starting plane or slightly inside and primed for completing the FUS. The end result is a much purer strike at impact and very straight ball flight. I discovered the PPGS at the end of March this year a few weeks prior to our golf season and managed to practice and review enough of the basic concepts of this swing to put it in practice for my first round of the season. The results for me have been exceptional. I started the season with the worst handicap factor of my golfing career, 19.2 and ended the season last month with a factor of 13.6 which I expect to fall further next year since my last six games were no worse than +11 and the last +6. I attribute this success entirely on my adopting the PPGS and Kenny Knox short game lessons and putting sidesaddle, Sam Snead style, with a belly length face balanced putter. Thank you Don for your contribution to helping so many golfers enjoy the game again. The PPGS is for real and I have become a strong advocate of the benefits of this swing. Wish there would be more certified trainers of this swing in the Ottawa area.
encouraging
M,
Thanks for your contribution too. Hearing real life experiences of learning and improvement inspire us all and encourage others to experiment and work on their games. Please continue to comment as you have time. We appreciate it more than you know. Who knows who else you've inspired today!
Thanks both!
Thanks to both Robert for asking and his insights and also to Surge for the great explanations. Nothing has helped my game more than "reading & heeding" what is on this site.
Happy Holidays to all,
Jon
Laws of golf/nice reads/bump
I somehow missed this chain of comments 1 month ago, so maybe you guys will not see this. BUT thanks to Dave Everitt, Robert Meade, and MikefromKY, for their article references. I like to tweak my swing and try different ideas, and your articles have brought a lot to consider. I appear to be a low track swinger due to shorter forearms compared to upper arms. I intend to try a flatter a backswing and still be within PPGS guidelines if possible. At least it recommends driving your hips first (bump !!) Thanks guys. Tom C.