Earlier this summer, Russ Bamber, wrote to me asking for help with a problem that I don't hear of all that often.
"Don, all of a sudden every one of my iron shots pulls left? My drives go straight, but I cannot hit a straight iron shot?? What am I doing wrong???? Help!!"
Actually, on reflection this problem is probably more common than one might think. The reason that this occurred to me is that I am currently teaching in the Netherlands and I've had the opportunity to work with several excellent students this week that have one or more of the setup, swing or equipment issues that I am about to mention. The only difference between them and Russ is that over the years, these two Dutch students have adapted their game to compensate for a pull swing and so the problem is not as noticeable. However, I am a big believer in the old saying that "two wrongs don't make a right", particularly as it relates to the golf swing. If you have a swing flaw, it makes no sense to me to introduce another flaw to counterbalance the effect of the first. Rather, I would prefer to see a student correct the original flaw and learn how to hit the ball straight.
So, Russ, here are three things that I would look at as possible causes of your swing problem.
- You are lined up way to the right. I am seeing a lot of this lately, both here in Europe and at home. People are not getting the concept of the toe line being parallel left of your target line. All too often, I find students are actually aiming their toe line directly at the target rather than 4-5 yards left of the target when hitting a wedge to as much as 25-30 yards left of the target when hitting their driver. Why could this lead to a pulled shot? Well, by aiming way right of your intended target, your body cannot possibly clear out of the way in time to allow you to get the club back on the aiming line square to the target. Your brain senses this as you begin your Forward Upswing and directs your arms to make a mid-course correction in the swing path. Commonly this causes a reverse weight shift and you end up pulling the the club head across the target line, pulling your shot dead left if your are a right handed golfer. This can also happen if you steepen the descent of the club head and end up hitting down on the ball. If you hit the ground before the ball, the impact could cause the club head to close just prior to contact with the ball.
- You have a high degree of offset in your irons that is not present in your driver. Over the last few years, there has been a trend in golf club design to introduce more offset into cavity back, perimeter weighted clubs. Offset is a design condition in club heads in which the neck or hosel of the head is positioned in front of the face of the club head, so that the club face appears to be set back a little from the neck of the club. Put another way, offset is the distance that the forward side of the neck/hosel of the club head is set in front of the bottom of the face of the club head. The more offset in the club head, the more time the golfer has in the Forward Upswing to rotate the face of the club head back around in order to arrive at impact closer to being square to the target line. In other words, offset can help a golfer come closer to squaring the face at impact because the club face arrives at impact a split-second later than with a club that has no offset. Thus a benefit of offset is to help reduce the amount the golfer may slice or fade the ball. But what if you don't need that amount of help with your swing? Because the offset delays impact for a split-second, if you already have the club head square to the target line that small delay may mean that the club face is actually closed by the time impact occurs, resulting in a pulled shot.
- You have a problem with your grip. Whether you are not grasping the club correctly, setting the club face square to the target line in setup, or you're re-gripping the club just before or during your backswing, you may be hitting the ball with a closed face, creating a grip-induced pull.
Russ, any combination of these factors could be causing your problem, but if your irons are relatively new, I would really check out the amount of offset they have before tinkering with anything else in your swing. I would hate to see you make swing or setup changes when the real culprit here is your equipment.
Keep it vertical!
The Surge
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Comments
latest video -- iron pulls
Surprised you didn't mention lie angle, which is probably more critical with irons than it is with woods. The lie angle, I've been told, can affect direction.
Also, setting open stance with an iron might cause a pull if the shoulders are set the same as the feet. Many golfers set closed with longer clubs and open with irons, so the open set wouldn't affect the driver swings. If the swing follows the shoulders, the resultant shot would look like a pull.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Iron Pulls
Gary
Yes lie angles are important. But lie angles being off will result in if to up right are hooks and if to flat fades. Generally pulls are the result of swing flaw such as alignment , coming over the top with a closed face at impact etc.
Lie angles, good call
Gary, that is a good observation as it could be lie angles that are too upright. BTW, it has been observed that many amatures actually suffer a more common push/slice because of lies that are too flat. A reason that it may not be lies in the cause of Russ is that in his question to Surge he says that "all of the sudden" he was hitting pulls with his irons. That suggests that before that he was not pulling shots. So it is more likely it is one of the other flaws that Don mentions and Mike alludes to in his comment. Anyhow I am always glad to see a fellow golfer reminding us about lie angles because I am convinced that it is unfortunately considered a less important factor by most golfers. Many have never had them checked, ever. Others not since buying them 5,10,20 years ago (if even then when new). I've previously challenged my friends blogging on this site to prove me wrong or otherwise on this subject and only a few souls responded. I'm sure many do concur but It just doesn't seem worth it for some beguiling reason. It's actually very inexpensive to have done. After having mine adjusted I saw immediate improvement in my game. I check and adjust mine at least once a year. The way I occasionally bang mine up on our muni and out of tough lies some may end up slightly flatter and others slightly upright. Over a period of years, who knows how off clubs may become depending on how often one plays. Even brand new and especially off the shelf you can bet several of the iron lies (and lofts) are off of what they are said to be.
Another 2 cents worth. Hmmnnnn.... guess we're up to 4 cents :)
Iron Pulls
In my case, I have a tendency to get a bit lazy, and not turn my body toward the target all the way. When I concentrate on having my belt buckle pointing to the target at the finish, I hit the ball much straighter. When I pull, my belt buckle is usually pointing right of target.
The eyes have it
Fine to talk about set up as an ongoing issue but why is no one talking about the cause of the set up issue. People have a dominant eye and no one seems to be talking about how that dominant eye is the root casue of most of the set up problems. I am a lefty with a dominant right eye. I am guessing most righties are left eye dominant. That immediately sets up for a closed look, even though we think we are square. Even setting up a putting line with the arrows on the ball are impacted by the dominant eye. Please address with an opthomologist as a resources to explain. Seems to be an easy fix that no one addrresses. Even by pick out a spot in front of the ball for alignment, I invariably set up closed. My right eye takes over. That is why I pick a spot behind the ball and allow my non dominant eye to take over when setting up to the back spot. Get square every time.
Dominant eye
Blugolds, we have actually discussed the dominant eye and how the eyes can fool us several times in the past and you make some helpful points in your comments. Most picka spot in front of the ball the way Jack Nicklaus taught and Surge recommends but others pick a spot behind or even both behind and in front. Hey, what ever works right? Interesting how you use the non dominant eye.
Another aid in alignment is to come into the ball with the club in the dominant hand only therefore walking in slightly facing and open to the target as we then settle in with the club face first square to the target and the spot just in front of the ball(and or behind as the case may be). Then align feet square and finally add the other hand and prepare to swing. You'll see Don do this in the dozens of alignment videos he's made for us.
One thing is for sure our eyes can fool us and that is why I set up from behind before walking in and the don't look up any more and shuffle out of the correct lines after set up but simple trust the club and fire away.
BTW there are several discussions on the dominant eye found here.
Learn to use the search tool on the top, right of this page found under 'logout'. Simple put in the words 'dominant eye'.
One quick note, most people
One quick note, most people actually have their dominant eye the same as their dominant hand. What RM says below is very helpful information. It can definitely make a difference in how we set up. Personally, I prefer a point behind the ball, but that may, in fact, contribute to my aiming right too often as I am distinctly right-eye dominant and right handed.
NEW CLUB BUILDING PROJECT
Robert: Here's the latest on my experimentation's. I decided to switch back to steel shafts with my irons. With the newer colors (RED), light weight irons, their appearance is close to graphite. I'm using the same old heads, Callaway Fusion Hybrid style, with sensicore inserts and jumbo chamois grips. I decided to build them at all the same swing weight and they ended up at D5, except the SW which I beefed up to D9 with tip weighting. They will have their debut tomorrow afternoon.
One thing that surprised me was the more consistency of spines and FLO of steel over the graphite. These were the first steel shafts I've worked with since obtaining my new tools. What I observed might be some of the reason the Pro's stick with steel in their irons. Anyway, they seem to be more consistent on the bench. I hope they play more consistent too. The parts make a nice looking iron, so hopefully the field testing will concur.
Still tinkering away in N.E. Ohio!!!!!!!!
clubs
Do you have pictures? I just put on new grips on all my clubs this morning. Played a practice Friday to evaluate a grip change I made based on the tips from Surge on Sept 16 & 17.
Hit some of the longest drives and shots going farther with irons and hybrids but everything was decidedly left of aim.
Corrected my slice and power fades and made me more aware of a premature shoulder turn. Will see how it plays out in dogfight tomorrow.
I am contemplating new irons but have been really happy with overall performance from my graphite shafts. If I do get new ones, I will have Doc make them.
I also picked up a 3 hybrid Cobra Baffler to match my 4 & 5. I LIKE these clubs. I haven't hit my 7 wood in months and only use my 5 wood for tee shots on a couple holes. Only other wood is my Doc built driver, and I sold my original Cobra Driver. Wouldn't go back to it.
I like yours and Doc's explanations and talks on club building, but after retiring from working on cars for over 40 years, I don't really care to build anything, at least not yet.
Fairways and greens.
No Pic's
Sorry, but I didn't take any pictures. I have tinkering in my blood. After 30yrs in mechanical maintenance at a Steel Mill, I still love taking things apart and putting them back together. I have always had that need or curiosity to see how something actually works, internally that is. I remember getting a pocket watch at about 8yrs old and having the back off the first night watching all the little gears going round and round, fascinating then and still is.
Fun stuff Terry
Interesting work on your new project T. How'd they play for you? Hopefully well. The steel spined and FLO consistently, eh. That is a strong vote for reconsidering light steel. I have yet to experiment with my sensicore set. I was going to wait until I got the new set of Project X Rifle 5.0's.
http://www.pxshaft.com/pxshaft/projectx.asp
They are available for a reasonable price on e-bay but I can't currently justify buying them. I will eventually but in the mean time I may try the sensicores in my old set. Considering taking them completely apart and then rebuild them after flo/spining and adding the sensicores. et.
Can you tell us a little more about the 'red' irons? Are they true temper? How light? Oh details, details please!
Tinker on:)
Color steel shafts
The irons are not, unfortunately True Temper or any name brand. That's probably why the cost is very low, but I am impresses with them on the bench. I'll play with them this afternoon/evening with a small bucket before. They are from Diamond Tour. Keep in mind that sensicore inserts are very hard to remove. I'm still working on the how. I ordered a 12" set of Steel Tweezers to see if they will work. I'll let you know when they arrive. The inserts go in to a 7" dept, so I hope the tweezers will fit into the butt and grasp the center tube sufficiently for extraction.
http://www.diamondtour.com/golf-sale/golf-component-sale/golf-component-shaft-sale/dtg-vivid-custom-color-steel-iron-sha...
Diamond tour sells some great shafts
Hell, your looking smart to me Terry.To re-saft my wifes clubs, I purchased a whole set of graphite ladies shafts and also re-shafted my 3 wood and hybrid with 'less expensive' shafts from Diamond and they all turned out super. I may also get the ones you did for my tinkering and try them with the sensicores and my old Maltby sticks. As Doc said a couple of months back, price and quality are not especially connected. Wise man you are grasshopper!
I have complete faith you'll get those sensicores out soon:)
Pull
My guess is that his grip is set up as 'strong' for the driver and as such off-sets a tendency to fade. The drive then goes nicely down the fairway. The same grip on an iron would encourage a pull/hook when there is no tendency to fade. Well that's what happens to me.
It's not the grip, it's our grip.
I hear what you're saying, and agree it's highly possible. I'm of the camp that believe grip size does not alter ball path as some others claim. Our grip, however does. If the larger or smaller grip seems to be changing ball flight, then I suggest it is the hands and not the grip size causing the difference. I have Jumbo grips on all irons and Super Jumbo Max on all woods. I can still slice, hook, fade and draw, the ball regardless of grip size. It does however matter about my hands and their placement on said grips. If you find that a change in grip size alters your hand placement, then all you need do is adjust your hands. Choose your grips for comfort and adjust your hands accordingly. You and your hands will be much happier.
PS: I realize that you Were talking about hand placement and not grip size, so this is just a so so plug for the use of larger and more comfortable grips, and not adversarial to your post in any way. I realized after reading it, it might appear as such, but is not meant as such.
Grip size
I agree that grip size has less impact on tendencies than many say. Guess it can vary from golfer to golfer. Personally you know I love my over sized for many reasons but I have to say I have generally had more control and hit 'em straighter than I do with smaller grips.
But I too can still slice 'em and pull 'em regardless!