PPGS Power From Centrifugal Force, Not Rotation

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 12:00 -- Don Trahan

We all want to hit the ball farther. Whether it's to keep up with your friends or your kids, being able to hit the ball with more power is a common desire. Rotational swingers do this by turning even more than they already do. Just the thought of turning that much makes my back hurt! So, how do we increase our power using the Peak Performance Golf Swing?

Dr. Bill Ammon sent in a comment about losing power if he doesn't turn. Though we turn to the toe line, you don't want to get in the habit of thinking you have to make a bigger turn in order to preserve or increase power. That's just not how the PPGS works.

I seem to have a problem with my turn. If I swing I seem to turn before I reach my ball but if I don't turn I lose power. 
Dr. Bill

I think the turn that Dr. Bill is referring to is in his forward upswing. Anytime you start your downswing (which we call forward upswing) with a turn, the turning will automatically start pulling your body forward, ahead of the ball. That's why we see a lot of rotational swingers slow their swing down by moving downward so they don't get too far ahead of the ball. They will often arch their wrists as well to get the club square. I feel like all these movements take your whole body out of balance because you're changing major angles during your swing.

Dr. Bill says he loses power when he keeps his body still and centered. You've got to understand the differences between the PPGS and a rotational swing. Rotational swings primarily get their power by turning the body fast and using the body to pull the arms. We're just the opposite. We get our power from centrifugal force. Because we swing vertically, we're working in harmony with gravity. If you get rotational, it takes more energy to swing the club because you're now working against gravity.

We get our power by keeping our body more still and swinging our arms faster towards the target. If you want to hit the ball longer, you've got to have arm acceleration. You get arm acceleration by keeping the body quiet, so you want to avoid torso rotation.

What's the number one PPGS rule? The fewer angles the better. Set up with good angles, and then maintain them. Keep the body quiet, then accelerate the arms. Try this and I'm confident you'll start hitting the ball with more power.

Keep it vertical!

The Surge

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Comments

shankopotomus6441@gmail.com's picture

Submitted by shankopotomus64... on

OK, so I haven't posted for awhile. I had a STAR total ankle replacement in October and now am getting back to the course. I have limited ability to load anything on my right side. Is there a way to work the PPGS flat footed? I will wear a lace up brace forever when golfing.

Dave Everitt's picture

Submitted by Dave Everitt on

I have two bad ankles and wear braces on both of them when playing golf. They tend to make me more flat footed during the swing but at least I can swing without fear. I've worn them for the last ten years and have been able to play injury free. The brace that I use is a lace up one with velcro strips that wrap around the ankle and give excellent support without restricting ankle motion too much. The brand name is " ASO EVO."
The Surge swing has been a lot easier on my ankles because there is a lot less twisting and weight transfer and more emphasis on the arms. The careful presetting of the weight to the right that is a key parameter of the Surge swing should help you find a preloaded position that you can handle.
I can't roll the front ankle targetward during the FUS so wearing the brace is the only way that I can swing through without injuring myself. You might consider wearing a brace on both ankles. It seems to help me keep a very steady lower body during the BUS. That might help you avoid moving too much weight to the rear foot while making your backswing.

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Shankapotomus,

I believe and I am sure Surge would agree, you can "work the PPGS" with a variety of abilities and liabilities. Surge has said many times that he gives us the guidelines of Peak Performance Golf Swing then leaves it up to us to adjust them according to our body types and abilities. In the past, Surge has demonstrated the PPGS swing when not PLHR. This is when we are hitting into the wind and then more recently, the Kenny Knox short game videos have recommended even keeping our weight on the forward foot. YOU have a special circumstance and may without a doubt adapt to your 'new' body and liability. You call yourself
"Shankapotomus". We have seen your posts on occasion and are glad your still with us. Obviously things have become a challenge since your right ankle issues and now replacement. That is inspiring that you are getting on now with your challenge and working your way through it. I think that you may actually end up with a very stable swing. You'll have even a less body shift. It certainly may become even more of an arm swing with lot less body movement. What you loose in distance may be made up for with a new found accuracy. Being stable and having less movement would likely reduce or eliminate any chunking, thinning or shanking! You'll do your best to adapt and who knows, perhaps some areas of your game will now make up for any perceived lose. I will leave you with some inspiring attachments.
Best to you and hang in there.
BTW, if you don't have it yet. you would do well to purchase the 'Working the ball " lessons, especially the section on 'launch angle' which covers when we might set up with our weight forward. Just think of your case as a permanent reason.
https://www.swingsurgeon.com/shop/products/working-ball

Also Kenny Knox
https://www.swingsurgeon.com/shop/products/short-game-kenny-knox-pga

https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/different-doesnt-always-mean-wrong

Inspirational Surgite. I met Anthony at a PPGS tourny. Wow.
https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/meet-my-friend-anthony%E2%80%A6the-epitome-ppgs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxtW9aUhL1k

shankopotomus6441@gmail.com's picture

Submitted by shankopotomus64... on

thanks for the comment and links. I'm on it. Love the Surge

cochran-john@sbcglobal.net's picture

Submitted by cochran-john@sb... on

Good speculation has it that David used a rotational move with his sling to kill Goliath. There is no way he could have used the PPGS to generate enough power. He had to use the strength of his upper body (chest and shoulder muscles), thus he came around rotationally and used excellent timing (like virtually all pro golfers do) to hit the release point just right. If David wanted to use the PPGS he would have had to use a very short sling (like the shorter clubs you advocate) and too much speed and power would have been sacrificed. I know that when I try to speed up my swing I really suffer with poor timing. The slower I swing the farther the ball goes. But this is using a rotational swing. The idea of trying to hit the ball "fast" with a more vertical swing is counter to any success I've had hitting a golf ball. For me the key is to swing rotationally, swing slow, and watch it explode off the tee. If there was some way to find out for sure I would bet that the last thing Goliath saw was a perfectly timed rotational swing.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Have you ever actually used a sling?

That's one of the pretty much useless activities that I did constantly when I was a kid. I made every style of sling I could imagine and there were few days that went by that my friends and I didn't use them. I guess the amount of power we could throw with them intrigued us. The most fun we had with them was getting a group on each side of a lake with slings and making tightly packed mud balls and throwing at each other across the lake. Very dangerous but danger didn't matter much to us back then. A hard mud ball in the side of the head at 150mph was just our idea of fun.

The only thing rotational about the operation of the sling is that the sling rotates around the hand. There is very little body movement at all and the faster the sling rotates the less movement there is, not only from the body but from the hand and arm. The tremendous speed and power doesn't come from body movement at all.

Brady's picture

Submitted by Brady on

The power from a sling comes from the angular velocity of the sling spinning around a point. As the angular velocity increases, the amount of potential energy increases from the centrifugal force acting on the rock in the sling. Then centrifugal force is acceleration acting on the rock toward the center of the rotation. I don't know why but it was always a concept that I continually had problems understanding. The "right hand" rule is used for the rotation at which you spin the sling.

A = V^2/R

... Bringing back flashbacks from Physics 101 in college :)

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

I'm not even sure the teachers knew any physics in my high school, and if they did they didn't teach us any of it (and I certainly stayed away from those courses in college). LOL

There is absolutely no doubt that those same mechanics are why I can hit a ball farther than people half my age that are bigger, stronger and faster (well maybe not faster?) than I am and the shorter the club the more distance advantage I have on them.

It's fairly comical sometimes when one of those young guys bulls up and is determined to use the same club I use on a par three and comes up well short.

Cowboy in a kilt's picture

Submitted by Cowboy in a kilt on

John

I think you missed the point of the story of David & Goliath. David was a small boy. He did not have strength in his upper body. If God wanted to use someone who had strength in his upper body, he would not have used David, he would have used one of the gym rats every military unit has. The point of the story is that we do not need to have, or rely on, our own strength. We need to trust God and rely on his strength. That is what David did and it worked just like God told him it would.

Kind of reminds me of all of us out here in the Surge Nation. We have developed a sense of trust in Surge. We try hard to do this swing as he tells us too. When we do it right, then it works. When we mix in rotational swing thoughts and actions, it does not. You seem to enjoy making broad, all encompassing statements. For example, you said "The slower I swing the farther the ball goes." Two things come to mind for me when I read that statement. First, you should have placed a comma after the word swing. But, we will save the English lesson for another blog. The second thought I had on your declarative statement was, if that is true, why don't you just slow down your swing to 5 MPH. That should allow you to hit the ball a good 500 yards, according to your thought process.

I think you are wrong about using the rotational swing, about your ball going farther when you swing slower, and about wasting your time on our site bashing the swing we use.

You were wrong as well, when you bet the last thing Goliath saw was a perfectly timed rotational swing. The last thing Goliath saw was a little stone, which David picked up from a creek bed, getting bigger and bigger. It probably looked like a bolder by the time it got to him.

You might be better off using a different book for the source of your next speculation. You will find the folks on this site are pretty familiar with the Good Book. You won't have much luck here with your speculation, or with your swing recommendations.

Try using a hand puppet next time. We are kind of visual people on this site. Surge has spoiled us, we like to see a video of your story, so it sinks in.

Now, get back under your bridge with the rest of the trolls.

Keeping it vertical, just like David did, in Oklahoma,
Dick

cochran-john@sbcglobal.net's picture

Submitted by cochran-john@sb... on

I don't know who Dick is, but his lack of physics is on par with his lack of knowledge on most other elements. No Dicky, I didn't miss the point in the fable of David & Goliath. You added some needed elements (i.e., that his army had ample reserves of muscle that could have made a match with Goliath). That's not to be found in the myth. The point that originated the argument was one of physics, and the idea of a small lad standing perfectly still and capable of producng such centrifical force without using his body is laughable.
Now, as to your English lesson, I think a list of people I might visit for such instruction would not include you. The sentence, "The slower I swing the farther the ball goes." does not include such a transitional phrase as to require a comma. The normal thought process allows the reader to easily follow the flow (apparently not you). Then you make an absurd statement that takes the context of the sentence to a ridiculous point of exageration by indicating there was an assumption made that the swing speed could be slowed to micro amounts and achieve exponential results e.g.,: ( ..."why don't you just slow down your swing to 5 MPH. That should allow you to hit the ball a good 500 yards, according to your thought process.." ) You are the only one to manifest such an illusion. Golf instructors from the days of Tommy Armour to the present all state that the swing should be slowed down to within 80% of maximum potential (probably less for the amateur). To swing excessively hard is to lose balance, tempo, and swing plane. Apparently your camp has never heard of such, or you are trying too hard to get that unachievable speed by upright centrifical force alone (Why do so many of your followers keep complaining they just can't hit the ball as far as they would like? Old Surge keeps making excuses with suggestions such as shortening the club, playing forward tees, and other such fluff avoiding the fact that they never will increase distance until they put some rotational power back in their swings!)
Now as to your unprofessional assumptions that I am wsting my time bashing your site over the swing you advocate, (I needed a comma here) all I can say is that originally I had some honest questions and wanted some clarifications when I contacted your site. Your hostility would suggest perhaps you have a guilty conscience about something, ...perhaps a very flawed swing program that you are trying to hawk (methinks you are protesting way too much!) Well, if you can't take honest questions and observations, then I am indeed done with what you would call "a service." One final observation, ...the PPGS is so much better of an idea than the old rotational swing that the percentage of PGA professional golfers who use it is . . . .(fill in the blank). I"ll now go back under my bridge with my troll friends and try using a hand puppet. I'm sure it would display more intelligence than anything you have to offer. By the way, I didn't realize that David did his great deed in Oklahoma. Must have missed that. A final suggestion would be for you to take the shaft of your five iron, lubricate and place it toward the very end of your digestive tract. Rapidly thrust it upward and as old tongue-tied Surge would say (eventually) "Keep it vertical!"

In all sincerity,
Up yours, .... Dick

John Cochran
Norman, OK

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

I have no idea what your motives are but they certainly don't include asking questions. I went back and re-read your comments and there isn't a question in sight.

Nobody cares if you disagree with Surge, or if you try to use his swing. I certainly don't agree with everything he ever said but I like the basic mechanics of his swing.

You seem to be caught up in distance and club length.

First of all there are people that have trouble hitting the ball very far. That's true of every golf blog on the internet and it doesn't make much difference which swing they are trying to use. Very few people are actually capable of making a golf swing that matches the mechanics the teacher wants. I certainly can't swing just like Surge but I try to follow most of the basic mechanics. No matter what swing we use if we don't do it correctly we can't blame the swing for our problems.

Secondly most people are using a driver that is longer (and less accurate) than most of the guys on Tour are using. That is also true no matter what swing they are trying to use. If a person is skilled enough to use a longer club and hit the sweet spot, without losing accuracy, good for them. Nobody is going to make them cut down their club. Just turns out that the average golfer sees a gain in consistent impact on the sweet spot with a shorter driver, and hits more fairways.

If it helps, do it. If it doesn't help, don't do it. If this swing suits you, use it. If it doesn't suit you, don't use it. Nobody is making anybody do anything.

shankopotomus6441@gmail.com's picture

Submitted by shankopotomus64... on

Never heard the "good Book" brought up before in relation to the swing. Some swear words, yes, but... I think you are both missing a point. Most swings can be broken down into two types plus variants. Rotation and arm. Older pros almost all had arm, vertical swings. Look at Jack in his prime. The club stands almost straight up. Wisekopf, same. Casper, same. These guys invented their own swings. They didn't hit it super far and would be out-classed today for distance. They were accurate and knew how to work a Balata ball.
Most modern pros are taught the rotator swing, single plane. Many have the same 5 or 6 teachers. And yes, they are bombers. They have trouble working the ball to the degree the balata ball allowed. This is a ball issue.
The only think that matters in golf ball striking is: path,speed, face angle, and angle of approach. How its done depends on you body, your mental acuity, and athleticism. If you want to hit rotationally, no problem. Go ahead. Whither David was a rotator or arm swinger is a specious argument and is as unanswerable as to which golf ball brand he hit. Lost in time and the desert.
As to slow, no golfer advocates slow on a full swing. All good teachers, regardless of theory, Surge included, use slow to demonstrate sequence. Excessive speed takes you out of sequence. Thinks happen in an order, or stacked order. When not followed for your natural swing speed you are out of tempo.
So, lets get back to golf and how we may all play better and stop the...

Vertical when I want to be,

Shankopotomus

Cowboy in a kilt's picture

Submitted by Cowboy in a kilt on

Johnny

You are not the first troll to drop in for what is usually a thankfully short visit. I have noticed a trend with you trolls. I wonder if anyone else in the Surge Nation has noticed this little trait that most of the trolls share. Think about what most of the trolls share, other than their dislike for the PPGS.

They seem to also share a disbelief in God and think the Bible is a myth. Wonder why that is? Maybe it is like the "Church Lady" used to ask, "Could it be satan?"

Johnny, you should really work on that anger management class you flunked out of. Does not seem like it helped you much. Sorry you wasted your money on that, and all those golf lessons.

I don't work for PPGS, so I am not hawking anything. If your first comment was an honest attempt to gain information, then I would never want to buy a used car from you. We obviously don't share the same understanding of the use of the English language. Most people gain information by asking questions, not making statements. Guess you folks over there in Norman do things a bit different than others. No big surprise there. I think there is a typo in your email address. Where you have john@sb, I think it should be johnny@BS

Just for the record, I don't carry a 5 iron. I broke it over a troll's head.

Now take your meds, and go to bed Johnny,
Dick

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

You are foul mouthed and vulgar person and I wish I had not read your last entry. Wow, but I did. If I ever see your name on this blog I will not read your words again. Closed minded? Yes indeed to any hateful any immoral verbiage that has no place here. I will also not read any responses you get any longer even if they are from thoughtful regulars.
Really John, you should be ashamed but I'll never know because I won't read it any way.

Cowboy in a kilt's picture

Submitted by Cowboy in a kilt on

Robert

Well said my friend.

Did you get the email I sent you about the swing weight scale?

Dick

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Thanks for the heads up. Just looked at my e-mails and saw your reference to the Maltby scale. That is the one I've had my eye on. Did find something really cool my Maltby book about how to measure swing weight without the swing weight machine. All you need is a scale that weighs in grams. Any way using the conversion chart supplied there I was able to determine my swing weights and now understand why my wife was having a hard time hitting her clubs, especially her hybrids and three wood. I have added the needed weight back to the tips and 'presto' she's hitting the sweet spot again. Her best swing weight is actually in the C-2 range. Because of the length I cut off of her 'light' shafts' it had been so far under C-0 that it was too light. Now it has the feel she needs. Doing some similar tests and tweaks on my sticks too. More fun in the garage. I am considering going trough a certification process too.
BTW, I have several books by Wishon and a super one by Maltby called;
"The complete book of Club Fitting & Performance" Over 700 pages covering every aspect of fitting with illustrations. It is my golf club Bible.

Cowboy in a kilt's picture

Submitted by Cowboy in a kilt on

Robert

Did you get the swing weights back up on you irons when you put the Enlow grips on them? I have had to add a lot of tape to all my irons and wedges after puting them on. I have settled into the C 9 range with my sticks. Seems to be a good feel for me.

It makes a big difference. When I first put them on and went through the hitting and recording stage, they did not swing well and felt bad. When I brought the swing weight back up to C 9, it really made them feel solid and I love them now. Still going through the process. Finished my irons, wedges, 5w and 7w today. Only have the hybrid to do, and I will be done. Next week, I will start on flowing and the MOI. Looking forward to all that. I have not even plugged in the equipment to do that stuff yet. I am really enjoying the learning process.

Broke a 4 iron today while doing a fitting. That is the only golf club I have ever broke in my life. Did not like the feel when it snapped right at the hosel. Of course it was the last club in the whole set I was doing. I got on the phone and ordered him a new club. He took it real well. This was the third time he had been in to see me, and he had already brought in a couple of his playing buddies to have work done.

He still gave me all 5 stars on the customer eval sheet. My PGA pro said, "So you break this guy's club and he still gives you all 5s, and I get a complaint because I don't wipe their noses when they sneeze." Just clean living, I guess.

I really enjoyed, and got a lot out of Maltby's "The complete Golf Club Fitting Plan."

Dick

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Dick,

That could a title of a future book for us. Actually my version would include Terry M. too. Terry and I have had dozens of (in the garage) fitting discussions.

Should call you "Mr. 5 stars" Dick:) Since we're friends may I shorten it and call you "5 stars"? Any how enjoyed your comments on your golf club adventures. I too have had a club or two either come apart from an insecure epoxy job or the one I had bent too far that cracked and had to be replaced. With practice fewer and fewer mishaps have occurred lately. Study, trial and success. Nothing like hands on experience! lol!!

Swing weights and Enlows -
What I did was measure the swing weights and then I added 4 gram tip weights to the Mizuno's and actually replaced the Enlows (for the time being) with a set of golf pride jumbo tour wraps. You can review my previous detailed discourse on the differences in the weighting. Basically I didn't want to raise the over-all weight toooo much by keeping the Enlows on and adding weight to the heads until the SW was good. You see my Mizuno's currently have the Project X on them (steel shafts-120 gr.) and I was used to lighter total weight sticks with my Adams Redline(4i-7)/Vega irons(8-pw). They were PPGS fit with Matrix Studio 64 gram graphite shafts. That's about 60 grams lighter than the steel shafts. The Enlows at 144 gr. made them an additional 31grams more. So in my case it was not only about swing weight but total weight. All about feel. Must admit that with those changes to the Mizuno's I shot the 76 best ever at Los Prados two days ago.
I still like how the Enlows feel in my hands and the reverse taper and I will be using them again in the future as I fit another set. I may put them on my Maltby KE's (a currently retired set from 5 years ago).

Took a gander at the "Complete Golf Club Fitting Plan" by Malby. Nice. Only like $12 on Amazone.com used so I may add it to my references. You may want to consider getting his latest and most complete book, -
"Golf Club Fitting and Performance" 2011. I love this book. It covers everything in depth. Actually showed me how to measure the SW without a machine at home with only a gram scale, calculater and included chart.
Seems my ideal iron SW is in the C-6 range. Lighter than I expected.
http://www.golfworks.com/product.asp?pn=GCFP
It's $50 new and worth it. They are asking $200.-$268.00 on Amazon for it!
Proving it is good to shop around.
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Book-Club-Fitting-Performance/dp/B00583OB4U/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359736824&sr=...
Cheaper from the author at Golf Works.

Fitting and learning,

Robert

Cowboy in a kilt's picture

Submitted by Cowboy in a kilt on

Robert

I was surprised too, that I did not end up more towards the D2 sw. My 7i and 7w have been my "go to" clubs. I found they were both in the C7-9 range. Guess there was a good reason for them being my favorites and most dependable sticks. As I got the rest of the sticks set in that range, the feel and results improved. As usual, Doc is right when he emphasizes how important it is to have the right equipment, and to have it fit us and our swing.

I already put in the order for the books you told me about, want to have them in the shop to refer to. Too much, is never enough.

I don't ever want to, but sure I will, hear the sound or feel that snap of a club breaking under my hand. It was loud, and everyone within 50' stopped and turned to see what had happened. No place to hide. We do our work right at the pro desk in full view of everyone. You know I am a wise a**, so I just said, "Ok, I am done with that club, who wants to have me adjust your clubs next?" I took their silence to mean that their clubs had already been fit to them.

Off to practice the short game and putting for a couple of hours.

Talk with you folks when I get froze out, high of 45 today, should not take long,
Dick

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

OMG Dick,

"Who wants me to adjust their clubs next?" Classic pal! You'll absolutely love the books I suggested. Wishon and Maltby are the men in the fitting game. They have a slightly differing philosophy in their fitting and club views. But reading and studying both can give you a good over all knowledge and perspective.

Think I'll be headed out for 18 soon. Gunna be 64* and sunny again.
Don't hate us Terry. Ohio will thaw out soon.

Terry Medley's picture

Submitted by Terry Medley on

I actually got out on Tue of this week. We had a weird warming front come through with enough heat and rain to get rid of all the white stuff (temporally) for a couple days. Tue had the least rain forecast and 58, so we managed to get 18 in. Played a lot of holes in the rain, but it was relatively light. The ground and especially the greens were completed saturated but no standing water, until you stepped on it, then the water sponged up around your feet. I managed a 44/46 so not too bad for the conditions.

Wednesday was low 60's with heavy rain and then Thur back to the high 20's, and a nice ground cover of the white stuff again. Just got back from some errands and it feels like an ice box out today. With the wind chill it's down to almost single digits.

I've been enjoying reading about yours and Dick's fitting trials. I'm surprised at the light swing weights of both your irons. Mine ended up in the D4 range with the last set I built. They still have the Jumbo Chamois since my bag will only accommodate 4-super size grips, which I put on my Driver and 3 hybrids. If I ever put the Enlows on my irons that would get me down into the C's also, unless I added head weight. I find I like the shorter clubs/irons, being a little heavier than the Driver and Hybrids though.

I haven't had much to say lately, but still read the blog each day to see what others are saying and of course watch all the dailies. Just chilling with the winter blues/blah's in frozen over Ohio. Burr!!!!!!!!!

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Many of us (if not the majority) have given the conventional rotational swing that "the pros use" an in depth try. Taking lessons, studying and practicing it with every good effort we could muster. I know I did. Hit some long and mostly wild shots with some hit and miss results for many years. As with MOST of us here who BTW are not pros nor have any hope of becoming one-(congrats on your efforts to copy them John) we found this swing and like night and day we are hitting it straighter, more consistently (and actually longer than ever speaking for myself). My scores dropped from the low 90's to the low 80's with the occasional sub-80 round. I'm much happier and my back is too.
When years of personal experience, not "good speculation" are involved, your words fall on deaf ears here. We were drawn to this site because it is the opposite of much that is taught out there. Then through personal application and personal success using this method we became solidly convinced.
So again, thanks for trolling by. We have our eyes wide open and many of us have 20-40+ years of playing golf and trying nearly everything. This is our calculated and intelligent choice. We're here because we want to be and are thankful for finding Don Trahan and the PPGS.
Why are you on this site John? To save us? We don't need saving we are just fine thanks. Oh, and if you have found your rotational swing I wouldn't waste time here when the pros and their gurus already have and teach what you want and are ready for your full attention.
Life is short, you better focus with them.
Good golfing to you regardless of your method.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

If there was ever an uniformed statement to portray a rotational golf swing it is to compare it to the use of a sling. The mechanics of a sling are 180 degrees opposite of a rotational swing. In fact the sling is much more similar to a PPGS.

Of course no golf swing can match the true speed generation of a sling because no golf swing uses the momentum gained in multiple revolutions around an axis (which is the speed generator with a sling).

Dave Everitt's picture

Submitted by Dave Everitt on

That sounds like a great idea for a new golf swing, Steve !!.... It could be called the " Gradual buildup of momentum swing. " This might be the swing of the future.

tom47penn49@verizon.net's picture

Submitted by tom47penn49@ver... on

I thought your comments were very well written and very kind. Is it trolling or tolling or toiling? Most of the time I am toiling out there. Good golfing to all.

TK

Cowboy in a kilt's picture

Submitted by Cowboy in a kilt on

Tom

Usually when Robert has one of those "spelling issues", it is because he is sending the post in from his "smart" phone. I can't speak for him in this instance, but I think that is where the smart money is.

I am sure he meant "trolling." That is one of the terms we use to describe the little pests who show up on the blog from time to time and take pot shots at Surge and the PPGS.

They huff and puff, but they never blow the house down. Our house is built on pretty solid science, and very well thought out.

We usually have a little fun with them for a day or two, and then they get tired of all the fun and run back under the magic bridge where all the trolls in the Surge Nation live.

All golfing is good, some is just better than other times,
Dick

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Thanks Dick, yes got my mords wixed, he he he :0
Trolling it is. Edit was made this am.

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

I rediscovered some lost lessons Surge had with Matt. you long time Surgites have seen these but newer folks likely not. Be sure and copy and download these to your favorites because they are classic gems from over three years ago that are NOT available for viewing from the search bar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nns0vBSeVdA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaL3i0YjPXs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VdNcjAnJRk

These fit well with todays lesson and like the junior Blueprint videos are the closest many of you may get the insights of a personal lesson with Don.

TinaB's picture

Submitted by TinaB on

Hi Steve,
I haven't been on the site in several months, due mostly to a move to FLORIDA (where it was 80 degrees and sunny today) :) and I'd forgotten how much fun it is. That video was hilarious. Thanks for giving me my laugh for today.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

I always said that geese were way smarter than most humans.

1. They fly south for the winter and north for the summer.
2. They mate for life.

Most humans don't do one and won't do the other. LOL

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

80 degrees and sunny sounds great! It will probably be a while before we get that.

jon.lucenius's picture

Submitted by jon.lucenius on

Great points Steve in both posts - thanks for the insight.

Golf is an exercise in physics, and I studied it growing up and in college, majored in the theoretical physics, and did a lot of long distance throwing as well. Those comments about the sling needing rotational energy/motion do not apply to the body holding the sling. The more STILL the body of mass the faster the orbit of the rotational object.

No sling? Put a golf ball or three in a long dress sock and swing it around. Move all about, rotate and try to maintain an orbit. If you are rotating the sock fast enough, you will feel like you are fighting a gyroscope, but I doubt you can get that much energy going without being still anyway. Surge has been saying for years about the quieter we keep the base the faster (and more accurate) we can move the arms.

If you want another example, take a look at Punkin Chunkin from the great state of Delaware (where else?). One of the categories of competition is "Trebuchet" which is what we basically do to a golf ball. Any motion in the central system is a no-no and a leak of power. Changes in the base system sap rotational energy and weaken that so called "centrifugal force".

I prided myself on being a longer hitter before PPGS. When I first learned and started using this system my distance dropped, but now that I am doing it correctly (most of the time, anyway) my distance is back and better than ever - and I am 5 years older approaching 50. The thing is am long or longer but now I know where the ball is going thanks to Don and the folks on this blog.

Down the middle (with all forces accounted for),
Jon

bkelso52@gmail.com's picture

Submitted by bkelso52@gmail.com on

Nice to hear a voice of reason. I seem to look at the blog just in time to see a rotational swinger blast the PPGS and Surge and Surgites. Steve Smith usually defends these diatribes in a polite and instructive manner, but you made a comment that is near and dear to me.
"but now that I am doing it correctly..." is indeed the key. Even with a rotational swing there is a definite sequence of events. But following the correct sequence provides for adequate power and leverage. You don't have to do it hard, you have to do it right. Work on the technique and the distance will come.

Bruce Kelso

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

I had a little time this morning and was looking over some previous chats I had with Charlie Y on the mental aspects of sports.

Haven't heard from him in a while on my messages and I hope he is OK. Here is a little part of one of our chats.

"I found some research results on orthogonal factors, which is just a fancy way of describing two factors that influence performance, like technique and artistry in music. I recalled that focus and calmness are two such factors. So, I reasoned that you can increase your focus and not get tense or strained if you also can increase calmness. The two sound contradictory, and that's why orthogonal factors are sometimes so difficult to train. I don't know if this will work again, but I'm going to try it again the next time I'm out on the course."
(Charlie Y)

Cowboy in a kilt's picture

Submitted by Cowboy in a kilt on

Steve

I miss Charlie too. I have not heard from one of the old regulars either. I think he went by ronniemac or something like that.

I hope they are ok too.

I have those old faithful members in my prayers,
Dick

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Yes miss Ronnie Mac, Charlie Y and remember Brian- another military guy.
I'm sure I'm forgetting some. Truth is we will lose some and never know why unless their families let us know. That's one more reason we better not waste our time on trolls and others who just want to spew there opinions and attempt to bring us down.
Our time on this rock is brief enough as it is. Let's keep those guys and gals we miss in our hearts and be thankful for our personal blessings.

Cowboy in a kilt's picture

Submitted by Cowboy in a kilt on

Robert

Thanks for reminding us of Brian. I think he was the guy who used the Cav patch as his picture. I hope he is doing well.

I have also not seen Boog in a while. Hope he and his family are doing well.

Dick

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Been a few weeks but he did check in and let us know he's doing fine. Life keeps us busy and things happen. We do like to hear folks drop by and say hello and remind us they are still fighting along. Last time he mentioned that he reads the blog just doesn't comment as much.

michaelemaser@gmail.com's picture

Submitted by michaelemaser@g... on

In my travels through cyber-space, I have come across Ronniemac on the"other site", he does make the occasional comment on their dailies. I'm always searching for different ways to do things, so I will expose myself to the forbidden fruits and taboos when the subject interests me. It's kind of like going to the candy store when you're on a diet, fun to look, but not a good idea to consume.

dave-meadows@sbcglobal.net's picture

Submitted by dave-meadows@sb... on

Hi Don:

I have been a subscriber for years and really enjoy your system and tips. I have also seen Doug Tewell's "square to square" system and it seems similar. I know the old square to square tried to keep the club face square/closed throughout the backswing and that won't work, but his seems to allow it to open slightly. Is this similar to your system? Another question regards the turning of the body. It seems like you recommend only a slight turn? And I guess I missed your thoughts on what starts the downswing...I travel frequently and sometimes miss your emails. Appreciate your comments on these questions.

As mentioned above, I travel frequently and would like to get the Fundamentals of the PPGS DVD's. Can I get them separately?

Thanks Don, keep up the good work!

Dave Meadows

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Hi Dave,
I took a look at the Doug Tewell stuff. Some similarities but I wouldn't count on it coming close to Don Trahan who was a top 50 teacher for years and has been teaching golf for 40 years now. Doug was a great player but not many become good teachers. That's not meant to be a criticism, only my observation.
I have gone from a low 90's player to low 80's and sub 80's since following and practicing this swing these last 4 years.
Shot a 76 today!

As for the DVD's. They are instant downloads but I think you can arrange to actually get hard copies if you like. The downloads are super convenient. You travel a lot? Do you take your computer? The downloads will follow you weather you get internet or not. If you miss the daily videos they are all saved on this site.
Here's Tom Jan's link to the ones from the past two years.

http://www.youtube.com/user/swingsurgeon/videos

There are many "separate" packages you can buy. Simply look above and you'll see 'Surge's shop'. The Fundamentals package is the one I would most highly recommend you get first.

https://www.swingsurgeon.com/shop/products/fundamentals-peak-performance-golf-swing

Good luck and please ask us questions or let us know how you are fairing any time.

dave-meadows@sbcglobal.net's picture

Submitted by dave-meadows@sb... on

Hi Robert, thanks for the comments.

The reason for the question for the DVD's is that although I have been a subscriber for years, unfortunately I missed many of the earlier "lessons" due to work and traveling. Since I am now fully retired and am now trying to learn the PPGS from the beginning, I would like to get the system continuously and in one place. And since I am now opening looking at +/- two year old emails for the first time, many no longer open. Also, they seem more like "tips" and answers to questions from subscribers than an actual description of the system...for instance, I have yet to find one that tells me about "into the catcher's mitt", or "up the tree". From what I understand there are two DVD's that take you through the system and getting them would solve my problem...I don't need to sign up for the online stuff since I already get it. Appreciate it if you could see if there is any way I could get them.

Congratulations on your improvements, hopefully some day I will be able to follow in your steps!

Please pass along my thanks to Don, really enjoy his energy and perspective.

Dave

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

I want to make sure I understand you when you say " I don't need to sign up for the on line stuff since I already get it". By on line stuff are you simply referring to the dailies that are indeed only tips and partial explanations of concepts?
The full detailed lessons that you'll need are only found by paying for the various lesson videos found in Surge's online shop. You can have the complete lessons and concepts any time if you buy the downloads. As I said I think both forms are possible to buy. Either the downloads or hard copy DVD's. You can contact customer service and they will give you the details or you can simply read the descriptions of each lesson if you click on Surge's Shop above and browse your way through. Again the 69.00 package of fundamentals covers everything about the 'catchers mit' and all other basics. It's a must have.
Did I miss understand you or did you misunderstand me?
I am cheering for your progress pal. we just need to be clear as to what you'll need and what you meant by "subscribed for years". Please let me know and again I'll be glad to give you some suggestions.
I would add that I have purchased all of Don's DVD downloads since 2009. In other words I have 'em all. Everything from the driver to the putter!

dscott3266's picture

Submitted by dscott3266 on

I love the Daily Videos but find myself getting frustrated as I watch them. Today's video had some great information but it didn't arrive until about 4:15 into the 8:15 video. This is common on most daily videos. Focusing your daily video advice on the narrow topic without first discussing every possible permantation of what could be amiss in someone's swing would be appreciated. A goal of a 4 minute video instead of an 8 would help keep the focus on offerring a practical tip to take with us instead of the message getting lost in an often convoluted response. Thank you for accepting this constructive comment.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

My vote is to keep the videos just as they are. If I ever don't have an extra 4 minutes, without getting frustrated, I will certainly be playing something besides golf.

Thank you for understanding that your opinion isn't representative of everyone's opinion.

Cowboy in a kilt's picture

Submitted by Cowboy in a kilt on

Steve

Can you just imagine going fishing with the folks who think an 8 or even 10 minute video is a waste of their time? Those are the same folks that are ready to quit if they have not caught the first fish before you leave the boat ramp. I make myself laugh when I think about these folks sitting down to watch all 77 minutes of the UAV. You would have to put them in a straight jacket. As always, I am with you on the length of the daily videos.

Surge, you just keep on doing what you do. We love it. Take all the time you need. We are out here soaking it up. When I see that the daily is going to be a good long one, I make some pop corn and settle in to watch it. Thanks for taking your time to serve us.

Dick

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Sports where you better not get frustrated over time:::

1. Deer hunting.
2. Fishing.
3. Golf.
4. Chess.

(And I like all four).

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