Doc Griffin is back today and he's here to call out many golf club lies that have been in place for too many years. Golf club manufacturers are in the business of building clubs for one reason...making money. That means they don't really care how good your game is, just as long as you're continuing to buy their clubs every year.
That alone is bad enough, but their reasoning for building clubs the way they do is based on swing measurements that most amateurs just don't have. Longer clubs, bigger heads, and other suggestions are all impractical if your goal is to become a consistent golfer with your current abilities.
Doc's going to address some of these misconceptions while providing you with the truths you rarely hear. He wanted me to include a link to an article written by Tom Wishon that has to do with some of these golf club lies as well. If you'd like to read the article you can click here.
Keep it vertical!
The Surge
If you can't view the YouTube video above try CLICKING HERE. You must allow popups from this site for the link to work.
Comments
Laugh While I Listen
Doc, I just kept laughing as I listened and shook my head up and down in agreement. A few years back I switched to a smaller 395cc KZG Titanium 700 and a shorter club length that you had recommended back then. Going from the 450cc club made my swing easier and repeatable. Well, after listening to my friends and trying some of the "advanced" spring board clubs, I decided to try a new Adams driver with the newest slot technology which brought me back to a 450, longer club. After 5 rounds, I had a slower feel to my swing and things just were not right so I went back and realized how much easier and quicker the swing was with the KZG.
Then, a friend of mine asked if I wanted to see him get fitted for new clubs which included all the computerized feedback on distance, ... Well, we had a good and expensive time on his behalf, but we could also see that some of the computer info did not jive with the feel and sound of hits. It sort of tells me -- be careful of what you go looking for ,,, because you just may find it that day and not ever see it again.
I enjoyed your insight and do believe that less is more. I would suggest anyone find a smaller head driver, even a ladies, and test out how that feels against the larger head. My swing speed is mid 80's on driver now. When I swing the larger face driver it feels like a caveman's club trying to get it squared up. Regardless of swing speed, a larger face head takes more time.
Thanks, Doc. Kevin McCarthy
New equipment myths
Doc: Great info about all the crazy ideas the name-brand folks are using to get golfers to buy new clubs every year. Hopefully this video will prevent a few unsuspecting souls from wasting their hard-earned money on the latest golf gimmicks. Also, I appreciate your link to the Tom Wishon article. It makes for some very interesting reading! Take care and thank you so very much for everything you do! By the way, I absolutely LOVE the clubs you built me a few years ago. They are AWESOME! R2
Tom Wishon article
Doc: After re-reading Mr. Wishon's article, the last couple of paragraphs go hand-in-glove with everything you talked about in your video. He states:
"Being a clubhead designer since 1986 with more experience in all areas of clubhead design and Clubfitting research than perhaps anyone in the game, I have complete respect for the engineering and design capability of the major golf club companies. I sincerely do. To use that engineering ability to create beautifully made driver heads which are very far off from achieving the specifications stated by each company is of no help to golfers who simply wish to acquire the very best golf clubs with which to play this great game to the best of their ability.
The best golf clubs for any golfer will be built with clubheads which possess static specifications which have been determined by the golf company and/or an experienced clubfitter to be able to produce the most consistent shot results when subjected to the swing characteristics of each golfer. If a golfer cannot rely on the static specifications of the clubhead to be what they are stated to be, achieving the most consistent shot results becomes a very disorganized trial and error process."
I encourage every golfer out there to read this great article. It is an eye-opener! R2
Evolution sometimes is just change......
It is interesting to see what the EOM's keep coming up with in order to no doubt just sell more golf clubs. Just a quick note though. The quality and distance producing ability of modern clubs is far superior to that of early editions of metal clubs. I still have my Dad's original "Big Bertha" driver and can never hit it as far as one of my post 2000 drivers. I also have lots of my Dad's clubs from the 60's and 70's. The only set that I feel can hit decently are his old Ping Eye irons which are still gems. That being said, short of the illegal drivers (super hot/thin faced clubs) that are out there, seems they have hit a wall as far as length these drivers will get the ball out there. Likely, most of our current distance gains are from the modern day golf balls. Hence they are seeing if by offering multiple adjustability they can capture new buyers. Now, nearly all of the newest drivers are adjustable in some manner. While the adjustability of loft is misleading, it's tough to agree that the concept is a bad one. It will be interesting to see who will first find a way to overcome the true loft adjustment challenge. I can't believe that club head designers are not seeing how they can over come and design a head that actually changes loft relative to the shaft and lie without closing and opening the face angle. It must be coming down the pike.
The article from Wishon is very interesting. One of the simple things that anyone can do to assure consistency of the alignment of their driver head is to put a line(s) on top of it. I first started doing this for my wife because her first set of clubs were off set and she would line up with the face closed. I found what was perfectly square to her feet and aiming line and then put a line on masking tape on top of her driver. I put a line with a permanent marker both parallel to the face and 90* to that. This is easily done but takes precision for accuracy. Of course there are companies that offer these alignment stickers for just this purpose. Now I have these home made alignment aids on all her hybrids, fairway woods and driver. It makes consistent set up much more likely and consistent for those of us visually challenged:)
Evolution
Robert,
The sad truth is that once a club is made at a certain loft, it's that's loft, period. It would be like saying that a doctor out there is going to figure out how to make your left foot your right foot. It just ain't gonna happen. You can change effective loft but you can't change actual loft. It is impossible. And, again, once you change the head or face position relative to the shaft position, in order for it to be maintained, it can not set on the ground. The other issue that concerns me is the ability of the golfer. Once you close the club face which then means to get more effective loft it has to come back into the ball open, it requires a certain degree of ability for that to happen as well.
Once again, the real solution is to go get fit and get what you need and not try to do it with "smoke and mirrors".
The other point that you mention regarding old drivers vs. new drivers is in the technology of material and the ability to thin the face and produce greater ball speeds. This is independent of size. You can make a very small driver head (3 wood) that has thin face technology and actually the same CT as a driver. At present, I think Wishon is the only one that has this technology for the 3 wood. The point is, if you produce greater ball speed size is irrelevant. I agree whole heartedly that the OEMs have to keep coming up with something new to "sell" clubs. If I might suggest, the latest thing is selling more loft, ie the TaylorMade commercial for the SLDR. Don and I have been saying for years that most players need more loft. Now the OEMs are finally saying it. Even heard Nick Faldo addressing angle of attack and loft as a means of gaining more yards! Imaging that. Been saying that for years too.
Hope all is well with you and Cindy.
Good Stuff
Good stuff, Doc. Afew years back I went from a small headed driver to a shovel headed driver (pre-owned) looking for the extra distance they all promise. It was long and too often wrong so I traded it for a newer model. This was before finding PPGS.
I finally got smart (old age sometimes does that) and had Doc build me through a long distance fitting a 325 cc Kzg that just works. When I go wrong I know it's the Indian, not the arrow. If anyone is looking for a driver that just works, I will vouch for the fact that Doc knows his stuff. It's a lot more fun playing from the short grass.
Adjustable drivers
The problem I have with adjustable drivers is that when the face angle is rotated the shaft rotates and changes the flow characteristics of the shaft.
There is only one optimum position for the shaft. If you are lucky one of the settings will happen to be in that position and if you are not lucky none of them will.
The shaft on my R9 feels like wrestling with a rattlesnake in every position except one, so that's where it stays.
OEM Manufacturers
Hi all -
I spent 25 years in the golf business, the last 15 as Director of Golf for a local public facility. I've always spent a lot of time on the range and have always told folks that as long as golfers think they can buy a game, the club manufacturers will always sell clubs. So, there is fault that can be attributed to players and manufacturers alike. I end up buying used irons and then reshafting (shorten) them and changing the length and lie to fit me. When I get a new driver, the new hosel technology allows me to reshaft (shorten) and weight the head easier, then I set it to neutral and forget it. I've got a lot of equipment though. My advice is to see a club fitter and get the right sticks.
Bruce
Hovering?
I usually enjoy reading Wishon's comments and enjoy his videos but on this one I think he's assuming something that's simply not the case.
He is assuming that people sole the club and that soled position determines the loft. Changing the loft in that soled position of course is next to impossible as he demonstrates.
He thinks that a person would have to hover the club for a change in loft to take effect.
Problem is that I don't know a single golfer that lets the "sole" position determine the angle of the shaft or the position of the body or hands. People that let the club rest on the ground (which is most of us as Wishon correctly states) let the club rest and assume their setup position regardless of any position of the sole.
Even he goes to great detail about determining the "sole" position of the different clubs. Not a chance in the world, with the different configurations of driver heads, that a person on a golf course is going to find that perfect soled position, much less use it as a setup reference.
Fact is that any club can rest on the ground while a person is setting up to the ball in whatever way they normally prefer and it requires absolutely no "hovering" to do so. Some have hands more forward or more back or higher or lower than the "sole" would relegate them to.
Fairly ridiculous to think that a golfer soles the club and then assumes their posture around that soled position.
Our goal as golfers is to have a good setup that works best for us. Our body posture, and therefore the position of the shaft, is not determined at all from the position of the sole of the driver.
It's yet another case of a really smart guy letting his brain get in the way of common sense. (Which I used to deal with from engineers on a daily basis).
Wishon Paper
I believe Tom has it right on. I also believe that Doc has it right on about head size. I am a recreational golfer & yes I do sole the club before taking my grip & then set up to the ball after using Jack's method of an intermediate target.
You can change the lie & face angle which does produce a different shot shape, but change the loft? BS. The loft is the loft of the head period.
BTW I have a Wishon 919 driver that was made for me & it performs a little shorter than om old Titelist, but it is straighter & easier to hit.
Thanks Doc for the link to this paper because Tom is a really great guy. I have e-mailed him often & he answers every e-mail I have sent him.
The guy knows his stuff period.
I might even want to try out a Doc Griffin driver if I can ever get to him when he has time for me as I like a smaller head.
These 460 heads make me think I am swing a loaf of bread.
Just my 2 cents,
louis
Driver Adjustable Hosel - Closed Setting
Is the implementation of the adjustable hosel (closed setting) an attempt by golf manufacturers to compensate for the problem of closing the club face due to the extra length of the driver shaft?
Closed setting
That makes sense. What it often results in is a pull or pull slice with the ball starting left but coming back because of an out in path.
Mark Crossfield has an interesting take on closed (or open settings)
'Rubbish or brilliant?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHuY8nxUYQ4
One of his points is that poor swing mechanics can over come any setting,lol:) This is very true. I lean toward "rubbish" as far as whether it helps long term. More important to me is swing path, square face and the right shaft. I can put my favorite shaft in several different drivers and achieve decent results if my swing is on. We get so caught up in the heads and often a better shaft profile with the correct length would do much more than a high tech driver head. BTW, my favorite shaft is actually the Adila DVS 55X red. Though my driver speed is only around 98mph I hit this supposed extra stiff better with several head options. Shaft dynamics allow me to swing 'my swing' as Arnie says.
In this next one Mark feels that where we hit the ball on the club head is more important than the shaft.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNTo_yRCxPw
I again agree though personal experience says both shaft and head are important (I'm sure he would not disagree with that).
His main point is that we need to find where we are striking the face by using tape (baby powder- what ever works for you) to find out where we usually strike the ball and where we strike it when we get the best results and then learn to 'do that !' more often. Interesting to me and in harmony with what both Doc and Surge have said, he had the best results when he had the highest launch (16 degrees) off the upper middle and slightly towards the toe.
Again this by design, particularly the higher loft on the upper half of the face 'roll' because in part it has allowed the average player to play an 8/9 degree driver and satisfy the ego while in reality he is getting best results by hitting it off the 11-13 degree upper part of the face.
Golf club lies
Met Doc in Reno and he built a new 12 degree small head driver w/ shortened shaft. The results have been more than expected. The driver head is black and each shot is recorded on the face. I now hit the center about 80% of the time versus 20% with my old Taylor Made. Surge helped with alignment and together I am really enjoying the results. Next, I think I need a new fairway wood.
hovering
the point is that in order to actually change effective loft, the club has to be hovered rather than touching the ground. As soon as the club touches the ground, the orientation is changed and it goes back to how it was originally built. If a club is built at 10.5* of loft, it is 10.5* of loft. You can't change that. You can however close the club face effectively adding loft but as soon as it touches the ground, the club goes back to it original position negating any angle change that you have made.
Adjustability/loft and shafts:)
On the loft thing, I have found that when I purposely change the loft and face angle I at the same time add my firm grip. At that point I can ground it and it won't change because my grip and therefor the face and loft are set.
Did want to mention what I feel is the ultimate adjustment that is less talked about. That is the ability to completely change the shaft in just a few seconds. This technology may some day soon make the use of epoxy rare. I got fit for my clubs and driver 4 years ago in California. I was introduced to interchangeable shafts with the Nickent Evolver 4DX. It was suggested that because my swing was still changing that having shaft choices would continue to be of benefit in my future. I have two driver heads (one with 9* and the other with 10.5*) and 7 shafts ready for quick change out. That gives me 14 drivers. The 7 shafts range from senior to extra stiff and vary in over all characteristics. Love it.
Let me be clear, this fitter was willing to fit me with one driver that fit my swing at that time and that would have been fine. However he made me a tempting offer that I am glad I accepted at the time. Having just one specially fit driver made by Doc would indeed be great.
Being the tinkerer that I am I still buy and trail other drivers and change out the shafts the old fashion way with an extractor and rebuild with epoxy. So I trial both but often go back to my Nickent choices. My next project will be replacing the shaft that came with my new (used found on ebay) KZG SP 700 355cc with my favorite shaft. Then I will actually experience a true side by side comparison with my 460cc drivers.
http://www.golf.com/equipment/big-news-equipment-2008-will-be-interchangeable-shafts
Hovering
Come on. You are a lot smarter than that.
What determines the loft is where the handle is, the angle of the shaft, and the angle of the face in relation to the shaft.
Touching the ground has absolutely nothing to do with the loft even at address unless somebody manipulates the shaft angle to match the sole of the club, and has even less to do with the position of the shaft (and hence the loft) at impact in a dynamic position.
Adjustability
If you open the face and take the grip or close the face and take your grip and hold it firmly it will not move when you set it down. However, I want you to consider the consequences. If you indeed open the face and swing normally, then you are coming back into the ball with the face open and the ball is not going to fly properly. So, you have to manipulate your hands in order for the face to be coming back into square. This in essence is delofting the club. The reverse is true if you closed the club face. The issue is in the manipulation of the hands during the swing to attempt to get the club face squaring up. If it's not, then all kinds of shots can happen. Just my .02 worth.
I agree that changing out shafts is a nice technology because it allows me to fit people quite easily.
open and closed
Thanks Lynn,
Always find your comments based in lots of experience both as an instructor and club builder. You know what your talking about. A quick word about my club set up comment. When I set my club face closed or open it is on purpose and it is not with the intention of getting it back to square. I'm not that talented.
I set it closed or open with full intention of returning to the ball closed or open. Usually when trying to cut or hook the ball. It is done with the full consequences in mind. It is in harmony with Surges 'working the ball' method. So I only do it when needed.
Of course it doesn't always work. On most shots (particularly irons) I set up square for a straight to slight fade.
Wanted to mention also that one of the great things about that 355cc KZG SP700 is who perfectly square it set up when left to it's own natural lie. It's just flat out square when it suits down. Is the 'Doc' diver an Alpha product?
Are you able to use any shaft exchange adapters with the smaller headed drivers you currently build?
Hovering
I guess I'm not. I'm assuming that you are referring to effective loft because once a club is made the loft is set and it will not change.
He is assuming that people sole the club and that soled position determines the loft. Changing the loft in that soled position of course is next to impossible as he demonstrates.
He thinks that a person would have to hover the club for a change in loft to take effect.
Maybe my intelligence is really going down hill but the above comment from your post seems to be contradictory. First, Wishon does not postulate that the soled position determines the loft. He states that the soled position returns the club to it's manufactured stats. You state that changing the loft in the soled position is impossible as he demonstrates. This was the whole point of adjustable hosel technology. You can change the loft of a soled club. Once you adjust the cogs, the club has to be suspended or else the design of the club sole returns the head to it's original orientation. Seems to me you stated the case in point rather well.
WIshon's whole point was that no golfer is able to do just what you described and that being you can not alter the effective loft of a club by addressing the ball in a particular manner once the club is soled. The test results shown in the report speak for themselves. No, I'm not that smart. I just happen to agree with Mr. Wishon that you can not change effective loft of a driver with adjustable hosels. Apparently, neither one of us are that smart. Obviously we are on opposite sides of the issue and I can live with that and I do not care to belabor the point any longer.
Hovering
If he wanted to make a study that would make any scientific sense whatsoever he would have clamped the shaft in a position to simulate impact (or address, take your pick) and then checked the lofts on the different settings against a straight horizontal line underneath simulating the ground.
Nobody soles a club and then builds their stance around that position, especially with a driver. Even Wishon had to go to great lengths to try to find the "soled" position for the different drivers. Not a chance in the world a golfer in the field can sole those clubs in exactly those positions, nor would they need or want to. All the golfer has to do, or needs to do, is to have a consistent address position and a consistent impact position.
"Adjustable drivers" are the biggest scam pulled off on the golfing world. No reason whatsoever to use flawed premises to show the scam when there is so much legitimate ammunition that the club companies don't want the public to know about.
I hover adjustable drivers - that works!
I love the Wishon stuff - I folllow him and even converse with him on the GolfWRX forums-which I highly recommend to all PPGSers! I didn't go to deep into this topic yet, but just wanted to add what I have done in the modern driver era to modify for PPGS.
Callaway RF 11. An Adjustable cog hosel for C-N-O. Two wt. screws for draw/fade bias. I ignored those, play it N. Bought the additional wt. screws so I would not need lead tape. Ordered a high launch Matrix Ozik X-Con 6 shaft and now play that baby @ 43.5", adding screw wts. to make it feel nice.
Titleist 910 D2 9.5. Another Adj. cog hosel for degrees of loft; open/close face. Try it mostly at the higher lofts (10.5). Bought another screw wt. for the rear stock 7g (13g) and put in a high launch UST PF Tour Black 69 and play that baby at 44".
I really have no huge problems with drivers now that I made a huge technique setup change. I hover them at address. Try it, ignore these odd & now common nuances of face angle/loft/lie. It can be done well.
ps. Just messing around at a retail store the other day to check the "newest" drivers out and felt that the TM SLDR 430 (smaller!) was by far the best fit to my eye/feel at address - but I like my two-year old models better!
I hover adjustable drivers - that works!
To hover or not hover. I guess that is a matter of preference. My equipment is all custom built by a certified fitter builder here in Cincinnati Bill Weitzel . I had a Taylormade R9 10.5 that specked out a 13 degrees loft you cant trust what you are buying off the rack.
Hopefully I will be able to play this year trying to get fully recovered from health issues from last year 2013 pretty much sucked. I am having surgery the 3rd, 13th and 19. Having flap surgery to fix a wound from a infection on the front of my left leg. Will be in the hospital for 3 weeks and home rest for 2or3 weeks.
This is kind of why I have not been posting contributing much for a while.
This will be a good time to watch and reflect on all of Don's teaching so that I will get off to a running start when I get to start practicing again and playing.
It will be interested to see if all of my equipment will still fit me after losing 50 lbs and a little muscle mass. The weight of them maybe a issue.
Face tape
Going along with my last post just wanted to pass along a tip to my fellow golfers who are soon (or later) coming out of a deep freeze and will be starting your spring golf season. Finding your optimal strike spot on your driver (all clubs actually) can be easily seen by placing either the impact tape you can get on line or from a local golf shop, or by putting baby power (or something similar). Any how, finding what your early season impact tendencies are may influence your set up and slight adjustments that may be needed. I actually do this every couple of months if not more often year round. I like Gmac's words that we are always looking for better. We can't own it we can only pursue it. Either going toward it or away from it. Hit my peak of 'better' about 3 months ago. Now looking for it again:0 Good luck to all starting up again over the next few weeks after the coming melt and thaw.
alternative to face tape
Not my idea, but found on another site or magazine--can't remember-- is to use Dr. Scholl's foot spray powder. Do not use Generic powder (just kidding). No mess, just a quick spray across your iron or hybrid or driver. Easily washes off when done, and you can respray the face after 5 hits or so as you want to hit more.
Be prepared to be discouraged when you see the results- I am more inconsistent than I ever thought; real evidence never lies.
Also have to tell a true story regarding Doc G. I successfully use a set of irons he made for me. And after a few years went down to see if I needed new heads due to wear. ( I hit predominately closer to the toe than the middle and had an obvious wear pattern there). He smiled at me and said I did not need new heads-have plenty of wear left. I hesitated a few seconds as he continued to smile, or was it a sly smirk. I then realized he was saying the true middle of the club had no wear !!!!!!! Tom
Center of the face!!
Tom,
Funny, the center of the face and the center of the fairway are often the safest place on any golf course!!
Thanks for the Dr. Scholl's foot powder suggestion. Great idea. Quick and easy to use then easy to wipe off. That was the draw back to using the target face tape from the golf shops, once you hit several drives (or which ever club you put it on) it is too difficult to see where on the face any NEW strikes (marks) are. With the powder one can just wipe it clean and the spay it freshly on again, nice, thanks again.
mumbo jumbo
golf club OEM's are fast becoming laughing stocks in my opinion. the amount of ridiculous clap-trap they feel they have to come up to make them stand out from their competitors would be amusing if it wasn;t so slyly deceitful. Taylor Made are the worst culprits, they seem to come out with new clubs every year. the most amusing thing i have seen are the tees that help you 'drive the ball further ' it actually stated that on the packet !
cheeers richard in the UK