Trouble Hitting Fairway Woods?

Roger

I have seen the moderator thing a time or two, but have also found that if I just remove the comments from the first post and make a second identical post it seems to go through to the blog posting find. Weird I know, but it seems to work.

PMG

Surge, I believe that you may have missed the point of the question, how to hit the fairway woods. I have fairly good success in hitting the five wood, but suck when I try hitting the 3 wood, any suggestions?

I have a Sonartec 13 fairway metal that you can have if you want. Let me know and I have a number of shafts that can be put in it.

Disqus generic email templateThe best club you have at your disposal is your own body :that's what you should be working on ,not only in strength building ,which is useless for golf ,but on flexibility and "explosive " speed .Several fitness books should be perused ,I would mention "Fix your body ,fix your swing "by Joey DIOVISALVI , "Thirty exercises for better golf " by Dr Frank JOBE (This book is 30 years old and is still fully valid ) .As for the comment on using the three wood (loft 15°) full length ,It is useful off the tee on long par 3 's ,but off thedeck I find it easier to grip down .I definitely believe ,at least this iworks for me ! ) that placing the ball more towars the center of the stance helps because as age comes ,we have difficulties moving our weight fast enough on the front foot Raymond Chastel
chastel.raymond@wanadoo.fr
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From: Disqus
To: chastel.raymond@wanadoo.fr
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Subject: [?? Probable Spam] [swingsurgeon] Re: Trouble Hitting Fairway Woods? - The Surge's Daily Blog

Doc Griffin wrote, in response to methodicalbear:

Really? As a teaching professional as well as a master fitter, I take exception to your information and suggestions. Where you put the ball in your stance is relative to your club length and release point. It has nothing to do with speed or age.
Also, my heartiest congratulations on having the club head speed of 95mph. This is awesome at an age of 77. In fact, it's miraculous. At that club head speed, you should have no problem playing a 3 wood at all anyway.
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Robert Meade:

    I concur with you sir!  In true "different Amos" fashion -- I can still hit the 3W well to very well -- for the first 10 or 11 holes.  Then fatigue sets in, the Swing Speed goes down and the 3W becomes usesless :<((

   Currently the 3W is out of the bag in favor of a 3H and 4th wedge which I find to more useful.

    Keep hittting them STRAIGHT and LONG

    Amos

Really?  As a teaching professional as well as a master fitter, I take exception to your information and suggestions.  Where you put the ball in your stance is relative to your club length and release point.  It has nothing to do with speed or age.

Also, my heartiest congratulations on having the club head speed of 95mph.  This is awesome at an age of 77.  In fact, it's miraculous.  At that club head speed, you should have no problem playing a 3 wood at all anyway.

Surge's comments seem on-target if the player is making a swing that contacts the ball squarely on the sweet spot.  A variation on the fairway wood problem that I have is inconsistency in height of the swing - so that the ball is either hit too high and does not get a good launch, or is hit too low so that the club head digs into the turf and imparts little energy to the ball.  When I get the height just right, the ball gets good loft and distance.  The question is how can I cure the inconsistent height of the swing.

Great post...

DJ tees off at 7:50am tomorrow. Stay tuned Surgites. Go Deej!

Hi Roger, my comment re "not showing much respect for us 'over 75s" was not meant for you at all.
It was meant jokingly for Doc who took exception to Methodicalbear´s (77 years young) information and suggestions on ball position and club head speed.  In fact it was what I would call a friendly defence of the +75 Club, many of whose members are Surge´s followers.  Doc´s knowledge of this great game deserves my full respect, so I would never want to offend him at all
If I hurt anyone´s feelings I hereby apologise.

I have found nothing nicer on the web than our group of Surgites who "meet" every day to listen to Surge and then comment on our golfing problems and experiences. It is something I look forward to every afternoon with much anticipation.
Quite frankly my scores have greatly improved since putting into practice the PPGS vertical swing (I have the manual and videos) plus the knowledge and the tips which appear on this blog, be they from Surge or from Surgites.

PMG and good luck !!

Jack,

 Me too. I carry no fairway woods. I have 3-hybrids, 16* 20* and 26* properly fit by a certified PPGS fitter. I hit the 16* hybrid better and farther than any 3-wood I have ever had or tried.

 As Surge mentioned in this video. The best advice for seniors and fairway woods is to get rid of them. I say, get a shovel and bury them deep in the back yard, then bury the shovel. In other words just get them out of the bag so you won't be tempted to use them. I actually sold all of my old ones.

 Then, find a certified club fitter and be properly fit for Hybrids. All I can say is it worked for me. In addition, my higher lofted driver also works better than my old name brand 10.5* driver.

Good Luck to all

PMG

If there is a fitter around I would check the specs on the 5W and see if the 3W matches. Off the shelf clubs with the same shaft and flex can spec all over the place. That is why Doc is in business. Most of the big companies don't have really good quality control, nor do they care as much for the customer as they do sales volume.

Disqus generic email templateThe best club you have at your disposal is your own body :that's what you should be working on ,not only in strength building ,which is useless for golf ,but on flexibility and "explosive " speed .Several fitness books should be perused ,I would mention "Fix your body ,fix your swing "by Joey DIOVISALVI , "Thirty exercises for better golf " by Dr Frank JOBE (This book is 30 years old and is still fully valid ) .As for the comment on using the three wood (loft 15°) full length ,It is useful off the tee on long par 3 's ,but off thedeck I find it easier to grip down .I definitely believe ,at least this iworks for me ! ) that placing the ball more towars the center of the stance helps because as age comes ,we have difficulties moving our weight fast enough on the front foot Raymond Chastel
chastel.raymond@wanadoo.fr
----- Original Message -----
From: Disqus
To: chastel.raymond@wanadoo.fr
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 8:16 PM
Subject: [?? Probable Spam] [swingsurgeon] Re: Trouble Hitting Fairway Woods? - The Surge's Daily Blog

Doc Griffin wrote, in response to methodicalbear:

Really? As a teaching professional as well as a master fitter, I take exception to your information and suggestions. Where you put the ball in your stance is relative to your club length and release point. It has nothing to do with speed or age.
Also, my heartiest congratulations on having the club head speed of 95mph. This is awesome at an age of 77. In fact, it's miraculous. At that club head speed, you should have no problem playing a 3 wood at all anyway.
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Amos, it´s comforting to know that someone else also gets tired after the first dozen holes and that as a result Swing Speed is reduced.
My game does suffer as a result and here is where the hybrids come in very handy !!

I think that Surge is saying that if we oldies (I´m 76) were to tee off from a "senior teeing ground", which may be close to or next to the ladies tee, we would be landing our drives closer to the hole and avoid what Brian Holland Jones said that his long Par 4s become Par 5s for him.
Thus we will get more enjoyment out of our game since par 4s can be played as par 4s.
I agree with Surge that the best long distance fairway club is a 3-hybrid which in my case has given me much satisfaction in distance and accuracy.

I am thinking of having a new 3w 16* built if I can find a smaller head than the launcher 3wd I have its not the easiest to hit out of the fairways with the bigger head but is really easy off the tee.  

I knew what you meant and I'm not offended and I don't think Roger is either.

At the end of yesterdays practice round I was smoking the 5W, getting accuracy and distance. It has a 22deg loft. Just checked my 3W[which I hit very well also], it has a 16deg loft.The Drv has an 11deg loft and I hit it much better than the r7Quad with it's 10.5deg loft. This seems to confirm the fact that 0.5of a degree, can indeed make a big difference.
Loaded and ready to have another round today heh heh heh. May only play a few holes. See how it goes.PMGAS

shortgamewizard
That's  the same 17 that I have and I love it off the tee or the fairway I have been sitting here thinking that does it really make any sense to take the 17 out and put a 16 in and the answer is no.

The tour I play on offered to have a senior division this year but all the seniors said no to it. They said they would rather play the division that there handicap put them in.Which the seniors we have are all low handicappers anyway.

The skins game that I used to play in we had a retired jockey that played with us he was in his 60's we all played the white tees @ 5800 I never saw him shoot over 75 he had a great short game but he would not play when it was wet out because of loss of roll on his tee shot. I never saw him out of the fairway off the tee either. 

Contact Doc Griffin for details. Yes there is a program they must take and pass to be Surge fitter approved.
http://tmgolf.sports.officeliv...
E mail him for more info.

LOL

Your to funny.

You do realize that as soon as the ball hits the ground that it's slowing down.  The ball will fly further than it will roll.  Quit trying to hit clubs that don't fit you any more and get the correct ones that do.

For all of you who are hitting the fairway wood good off the tee and not the fairway try playing the ball farther back in your stance. This will help put a bit more spin on the ball which will help it stay in the air longer. I have seen a lot of players try to help the ball into the air which does the opposite. If this doesn't help then go with Surge's suggestion on playing higher loft woods. Maybe a 17 degree for the 3 wood.

I read that it is still in the works.

Dr. G:  The Surge did a video blog a while back about the importance of setting and maintaining your spine angle thru impact.  If you change your spine angle during the BUS and the FUS, your shots will be as you describe - tops, thins and chunks, along with a host of other swing-related problems.  Surge also talked about "secondary spine-angle tilt" and how that plays into the swing.  Go to the top right of this blog, under "Search Posts" and type in what you arre looking for (spine-angle tilt and secondary tilt).  You should be able to find some detailed help and more information. Hit 'em straight!  R2 

Exactimundo

My thoughts exactly.  At that club head speed there shouldn't be any trouble getting the ball airborne and the length shouldn't be a problem either.  Also, the mention of getting the weight over to the front font shouldn't be an issue as well or I just don't see 95mph club head speed being a reality.  So, I'm just going to have to let it go as it just doesn't seem to all add up from a logical and physics standpoint.

Ted,
You miss the point. It wasn't the loft that is a problem most of the time that players have with their fairway woods, it's the fear of hitting it with the foreward edge and taking a divot and/or too much turf. Look closely at anyone having trouble with their fairway woods on bent grass fairways and other tight lies, and you will find that most of the time, they're hitting along the top portion of the ball.  It takes a lot of practice and to sweep the turf exactly without taking a divot which is required for a good hit using the fairway woods.

I have used the cavity backs since the Ping Eye 2 days. In fact I still have my Dads. But I switched to smaller blades a few months ago and love 'em. I have the Vega VM02'S forged in Japan.
http://www.premiumgolf.co.uk/V...
They look and feel great. Surge compares using the often larger cavity backs to using a frying pan to hit the ball with. The idea that the sweet spot is larger on the modern cavity back is bogus. The sweet spot is actually the size of a pea. In any case, what ever you feel you hit the best will be best for you in my opinion whether cavity, blade or a composite. If you get fitted clubs, hopefully you'll have a fitter that will not only have you try the clubs inside on monitors but outside at a range or on a course in the real world invironment. I was lucky that way. When i tried the blades i just felt good about the feel and the results. I know many will say it doesn't matter and that's fine too. that's why we have so many options.
Without getting into it too deeply, steel or graphite has nothing to do with flex. Each can have a complete aray of soft to firm. I have graphite in my irons btw. Matrix.

I assume that DISQUS is working on there system again there was about 15 minutes that I could not get the blogs to load and there site would not load properly this has happen to me a couple of time this week. has any else seen this.

I also noticed that they are adding another feature that will not allow a questionable post to be posted until a moderator approves it.

Doc,
I have two hybrids : a 19° Baffler Cobra and a 23°  4-year-old steel shaft, and my approximate distances for each are as follows, when hitting solid shots, which is not always the case !!  :

19° full club length : 170 yards
19° shorter club length : 155 yards
23° full club length : 140 yards
23° shorter club length : 125 yards.

I have difficulty in hitting fairway woods 3 and 5 which I´m about to throw out of my bag,  and irons below 7.  Therefore on the fairway I am now relying almost entirely on my hybrids until I´m within 120 yards from the hole.  From this distance I start to use my irons.

I have read umpteen times that one should have clubs which are fitted to one´s abilities, body build, etc. but so far have not got down to doing this.  This will be my New Year´s Resolution for 2012 when I collect my end-of-year bonus.

I wish to thank Surge and yourself for all your expert help on this blog, very much appreciated.

It is almost comical, that you answered your own question with your last sentence.
" (Yes, I know, I'm also increaing the loft.)"

 If you have to be so precise with the lower lofted club, even to the point of actually increasing the loft with a modified swing. Why not just get and use a higher lofted club and avoid all of the manipulations. Even better, be properly fit for hybrids.

 Surge gave excellent advice, that it seems so many just want to argue against because it doesn't fit in with their ideas.  Sometimes we are our own worst enemies when we fail to accept the advice of others. We just do not want to believe, that we can no longer hit our old clubs the way we used to a few years ago. The truth is often an ugly beast, but there comes a time when we have to face it.

Good luck.

PMG

I hope DJ finishes on a good note and  or Wins. This should be a good tournament to watch with Simpson and Donald fighting it out for the money list champion.

3 wood or 5 wood better for you?  Found a good answer from Doc. Be ready to park your ego by the side of the fairway.
http://tmgolf.sports.officeliv...

Another good one on the same subject:
http://www.swingsurgeon.com/Ho...

Hope this helps some with the challenge of why they are challenged to get thier 3 woods to work well for them any more. Enjoy and thanks Doc :)

Disqus generic email templateIn response to Doc Griffin and Steve SMITH :Though I don't agree with your comment , I shall honestly try again to hit the three wood flush from the ground with the full length of the shaft and see if you are right and Tom WATSON wrong .I shall let you know the outcome .Regarding another comment by DON TRAHAN ,I don't agree neither with the recommendation to throw the Long irons out of the bag :I have an old 1 Iron PING perimeter weighted which works beautifully of the tee on long par Three's Raymond Chastel
chastel.raymond@wanadoo.fr

  The tip regarding how to hit a 3 wood flush when you put on age(Ball in the middle of the stane ,shorten your grip,open your stance somewhat ) is from TOM WATSON himself (See his book "THE TIMELESS SWING  " )Tom has proven in the recent BRITISH OPEN that he remains competitive despite his age .
There nothing miraculous in having a clubhead speed of 95 MPH and 250 Yards off the tee at age 77 if you practice daily 2 /3 hours stretching , strengthening  and cardio trainng exercises .Anbody fit enough can achieve it ,provided he has the will to do so . 
The above figures are not fake and  result from measures with the SWING SPEED RADAR and pacing the distances on the fairway.

This brings up a subject that has been annoying me no end.  The USGA and other PGA pros like to pontificate about how we should use the tees up forward if we are not long hitters. All well and good.  But I would like to ask these "know it alls" when was the last time they went to the trouble of putting a men's handicape rating and slope on the forward tees. The USGA preaches about their not being a Mens' tee versus a Women's tee. but I have yet to find a club that has both men and women's ratings and slope on the most foreward tees and very few courses that have both mens' and women's ratings on the white tees. On one particular outing, the club Pro dutifully announced "All men on the white tees and all women on the red tees". I asked (I'm 80 years old and my partner 85) what about us seniors? He reiterated his ruling. I then asked him "What if Tiger Woods and Micelle Wee were in this outing? Would we seniors have to play from the white tees against T. Woods, whereas  M. Wee would be able to play from the red tees?" He shrugged his shoulders, smiled and walked back into the clubhouse without answering.

In addition, I also think the Surge gave a non-responsive answer to the question. I find that I have to be very careful and be sure I hit the ball with the club just slightly brushing the ground on tight fairways which of course, can sometimes be easier said than done, especially when distance is so important for the 2nd stroke in long par 4s. I found that by tipping the club ever so slightly to be sure the club would hit the ground along the tail end of the club rather than the face end, I am able to hit the ball much more cosistently on tight fairways. Doing so, allows me to swing with a more relaxed swing knowing I won't be digging the face into the turf if I don't hit it just right. (Yes, I know, I'm also increaing the loft.)

Neil,

Up until this year, I also played Cobra, 3,5,7, and 9, woods. I had tried several off the rack Hybrids and could not hit any of them as well as the fairway woods. When my PPGS Fitter made the first two hybrids for me, a 26* and a 20*, I couldn't believe how more consistent they were than my woods. I requested he make an additional 16* for those long par 4, second shots and was amazed to find I could hit it just as well as the 26* one. All three clubs swing the same regardless of the different lofts and lengths. It was then a pleasure to sell my Cobras to one of my golfing buddies.

The difference is in having the hybrids made by a professional fitter to fit your swing, and not just an off the rack hybrid.

PMG

Jack

All is good my friend. No need to apologize for anything.

Roger
 

TM, very good advice to get rid of fairway woods.  Today I was tempted and took my 3 and 5 woods to the course and was I sorry that I used them, since I found that my BUS was entering the SBG with these clubs.  I then switched over to my 18° and 24° hybrids and everything changed very much for the better.

I will follow your excellent advice to get them out of my bag (tonight !!) but I won´t bury them deep in the back garden ('yard' in the USA) and instead will resell them at the pro shop and hope to get a good price since all golf clubs are imported here in Argentina.

PMG and PLHR with nose pointing at the ball !!

Hi Jack, I only have a 24deg Rescue club with a short shaft, which could be called a hybrid. Only have it because I won it in a competition in the UK Golf mag Today's Golfer.Quite a surprise,but a welcome one. Love it. Not using it much at the moment as my other clubs have started earning their keep.Yesterday terrible,but today much better. Overswinging with the F/W Woods is the main cause. Today much better. Slower BUS and through the ball with the wee bump and the distance almost doubles.Accuracy is one of the big plusses.
My wife commented on something today and I [being a sensible chap listened heh heh heh] heeded what she said. Today my approach shots were very accurate. The SW is perorming like it was Phil Mickelson swinging the club. All shots to the green were less than 3/4s of the length of my putter from the hole with my SW.Boy does that give you confidence. On one hole the 5W left me a short iron to the green on a long par 5 into the wind. Used a club not used for a while, 7iron and nailed the green. Even had my driver out, One clipped tree overhanging branches and ended up shorter than normal. It was however well struck. The only other one went extremely well and my approach with a 5W was only a yard short of the green, dead on line with the pin.So all in all a more satisfying day today. Only downside. After the round my wife beat me 1up after a 9hole putting competition using my original Ping Pal Putter boohoo. Never mind, her putting was sublime and a well deserved win.
Thanks for the ABs support for the game against Sarkozy's lot on Sunday.PS his wife has just  given birth to a daughter. That'll teach him hahaha. Hit em long and straight mi amigo.