Should You Be Cocking Your Wrists?

Hello Roger,

I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier.  I had to go to work.  Anyway, Robert F. gave a pretty good definition of the difference between flexing and cocking.

I noticed that there has been quite a bit of discussion about cocking and also about cupping of the wrists during the swing. 

In the manual, beginning on page 96, Surge displays a series of photos with analysis of the entire swing sequence.  In every single photo, from set up, to in the mitt, to up the tree, to the top of the swing, the left wrist is shown, and specifically described as FLAT.

If you are cocking and uncocking your wrists at any point during the swing, you are effectively cupping and bowing your wrists.

If the left wrist is cupped or bowed, the palms perpendicular rule will be broken.  It is impossible to keep the palms perpendicular throughout the swing if cupping or bowing occurs.  Disaster can be the only result:0)

Hit'em Long and Straight,
Bob

Bruce, I wanted to thank you for the sentence." When we let the club drop to the ground at set up, we are actually deviating our wrist OUT of a neutral position." I remember trying to explain this a little over a year ago and not getting much agreement.  It seems to me, It's almost impossible to properly sole the club without a slight downward NATURAL flex/bend of the wrist/hand toward the ground. Thanks for your agreement on this point.

A cupped wrist at the top the club face will be open,toe pointing down,a bowed wrist at the top club face pointing to the sky club face is closed a reply a few answers back had this reversed.

Surge does it, I see no reason why one of us Surgites can't do it. Anyways, we knew what you meant, just like when Surge does it too.

I'll bet you anything D. J. cocks his wrist. Not bend but cock!

Just now logged on. Terry and Robert F. both shared good answers for you below. Yes, straight up would be the goal. That would have you nicely vertical. As Surge says, we will actuall have about a 15* tilt of the "farris wheel" because of our spine angle so it may have the hands angled slightly, especially as we drop into the "slot" and return from slightly inside.
Slow motion or frame by frame clicking of Surges swing reveals this. The feeling and goal is vertical at the top though as seen in Terry's manual reference below. Just think "thumbs up" on both sides.

This was a regrettable comentary on wrist cocking by Surge. Probably one of Surge's darkest hours in golf instruction.  Of course you cock your wrist at the top of the backswing.  In fact, you cock both wrists at the top.  That stored up energy is released at the bottom of the swing producing the power in coordination with the shoulders and leg drive.  I really enjoy Surge's instruction but he really missed the ball on this one. 

Boog-hope you didn't tick the nurse off. lol.

OK people, is it a passive hinge motion?
Heck,  a close-up-slow-mo video could settle this.
How about a CLOSE-UP?
My sense is there is nominal flex, but that's a guess.

No mention here of arching and cupping. Heck, these
would appear to create even more havoc than hinging & cocking.

I need help. Please help me understand the difference between
hinging and cocking. If you try to prevent the wrist from hinging,
don't you have to tense up and lock your wrists?

I'm back to passive hinge...if it's aligned, handshake firmness for the grip,
let it go where it naturally goes.
No need to cock it. Passive hinging....

What do ya'all think? 

I have used the one ball drill on the practice green for a long time. I particularly like getting the approach putts the right distance to give tap ins. Also I try to putt from each cup to every other one on the green so it gives a balance between right breakers and left breakers, up hill and down hill.

bob What do you do when you cock a pistol? You pull it back, not side ways, which is what you are talking about.

Hey Steve,

I agree completely. We shouldn't actively cock our wrists, nor should we actively fight against it. Just try to passively maintain the firmness of the wrists throughout the swing. I also think the primary way to do this goes back to something Surge makes a big point of in the grip video portion of the modified master setup video series: maintaining relatively firm, consistent pressure with the last three fingers of the left hand. That activates the lifter muscles on the outside of the left arm, which will work to resist any change in the wrist.

Steve

Working on it. Changed companies on July 1. Crazy month.

I will post when I can get "scanned" by the brotherhood!

Phillip

Sent from my iPad

Thanks, Charlie, but cupping and bowing of the wrists is different from cocking. The latter is the thumb side of the hand moving toward the arm. The former are the back of the hand moving toward or away from the top of the arm (what Dustin Johnson does).

That's a tough way to have an instant diet pal, stop that and get healthy. Any flu is dreadful. Liston to your doctor and only kiss your dog until you're bug free!
ps Don't pass this on, ha,ha!

You are entitled to your opinion, but it is one of the principles of the Surge Swing that there is no intentional wrist cock in the swing. Clearly this principle works just fine for a number of players who are both long hitters, and accurate hitters.

As Bob Thompson says, the forward momentum of the club and the downward motion of the arms at the transition will cause some flexion of the wrist, but we try to resist that and maintain the angle of the wrists all the way through impact and up. Intentionally cocking the wrist often leads then to casting the club, as Surge demonstrates in this video, which gets you to army golf and an out-to-in weak swing.

Another point is the 100+ year-old argument of whether the swing is a lever or a pendulum. It's a bit of a combination, of course, but those who focus on the nature of the swing as a pendulum tend to have greater consistency over the short and long term as opposed to those who focus on leveraging the club. For more on this idea, look up Ernest Jones, one of the greatest golf teachers in history.

Boog

I look at a couple of other sights for laughs and I'm amazed how many times they copycat their version of ideas that surge has done a video about a day or two before.  I  guess imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.  ;0))

Thanks for the MJ inspiration. Actually met him when he was in between baseball and a couple of months before his return to the Bulls for one more championship. Nice guy. I was a room service waiter at the Bellagio at the time.Met and served lots of celebs. He was buddy's with Steve Wynn, and anyway was staying in suite 2300 (of course, remember his jersy number?). Served him steak and eggs and got a decent (there's your word) tip of $10. He signed the triplicate check for the room charge and I had his autograph because of that copy. Regretfully I lost the darn copy. Uggh!! The only way to discribe MJ in person was OMG he was a Stallion physically. Looked like he could have played pro ball for years and years if he had wanted to. What an amazing physical presence he had. Wow.
In any case I will work on my short game until I can even challenge Amos!

Then you would lose whatever you bet. Surge and DJ have shown repeatedly that his wrists do not cock. They rotate very quickly from address, which gives the illusion that the angle of the wrists has changed.

If I rotate my gripped hands to the LEFT until the back of my right hand is on the table, I'd have to be a pretzel.  Did you mean,"rotate to the right"?

Terry, I have a similar wrist band that I ocassionally wear while practicing and you are so right. It does give you the correct feeling. It help me draw or hit it straight for sure. I'd be better off with it on all the time (lol) but alas that would be cheating. Another cheap way to feel that striaght wrist ( or not if cupped or bowed) is to simply put a popsicle stick in the back of out glove or a tee if you are one of the icecream deprived :)

Hey Robert

I do not have the manual with me I am at work are I would do it  For the sake of starting another verbage war could you post the definition of the two from the manual. 

Robert M

Perfect analogy!

Totally clear....

Thanks....Phillip

Steve Stricker is one of a number of players on tour who use a no-wrist-cock swing to great effect, yes.

We certainly think that all golf instructors should learn Don's golf swing and stop torturing people with movements that the human body isn't meant to be making with great energy. ;)

An unrelated question:  At the top of the backswing what is the position of the back of the left hand, i.e., pointing straight up, away from the golfer, parallel with the toe line. etc.

LOL back at you (and Karl)......
      Thank God most of the fellow bloggers are not that anal and can transliterate our errors.
Imperfect we are.

Nice playing Steve - enjoy your blogs.  Been playing good 2 - especially the driver.  Broke 80 for first time last week.  Surge - the putting video with jack has been a great help. have made more putts outside of 20ft the last 4 weeks than I made all of last year.  Ball rolls really well, really confident inside 5ft.  Like the pencil tip - will try that next time out.  Good luck to all.
Jerry from Warren, MI

I can do the gripped hands to the left and get the back of my right hand on the table. Extremely double jointed.

Flexion is the passive stretching of active muscles due to outside conditions. Cocking is actively changing the angle of the wrist and forearm by contracting the muscles along the inside and relaxing the muscles along the outside.

Steve Smith:

  this is in reply to your "Alabamese" posting -- ran out of replies there. Being from Norht Mississippi/Southern Tennessee, it was perfectly clear to me!

   On that scale, I play a lot of  3 and 4's -- and occasional 2 or 3 - and a rare 6 or 7.  So far  no  8, 9 or 10 LOL

    Amos

Khundanny, Pic #3 in this link will answer your question, perhaps some others as well. Please read it ALL carefully and study the pictures. There is a vast amount of knowledge in this short article link.  Good luck
http://www.swingsurgeon.com/Ho...