PPGS & The Vertical Position

I recall the great Dizzy Dean when he was told a professor said the curve ball was an optical illusion. "Just put the prof behind a tree and I will hit him with his optical illusion." All I know is I have attempted to emulate many swings from very flat, Natural Golf and a few others. PPGS works best for me. The more I work on keeping the swing vertical, watch my allignment and stay at three quarter levels, the better and straighter I hit the ball. Keep up the good sermons Friar Surge.

Tony V

Surge

Some people make it too easy to disprove their contentions. Mr. Anonymous is one of those folks. In fact, your swing is quite simple. There are less moving parts than the traditional swing. It is easier to learn, and much easier on the body to perform. It produces less stress on the body, especially a busted up body. As you already know, I had given up golf altogether for almost 20 years due to severe service related injuries. Your swing gave me back the game, and allows me to play 4-6 rounds a week with no pain. I have on occasion played 4 full rounds in the same day. I challenge anyone to show me a golf swing a person with my body could use to play that much golf with no pain. I looked at every swing out there for years, and tried them all. I still could not even hit one bucket of balls on the range with any of the other swings, and get out of bed the next day. I think you have gone into great detail as to how this swing works, and how the body works best with this swing.

I always find it amusing when someone claims their version of an issue has to be the common sense side. Obviously, the Surge Swing makes common sense to a lot of people. We are here with you every day, and don't want to play golf any other way. In my case, I can't play golf any other way. Thank you so much for all you folks do for us out here in the Surge Nation. I got the UAV as soon as it was released, and love it.

I can not argue with his claim that this swing does not work for him. That is a decision only he can make. I would offer him the same advise I have given to all the rest of the trolls who come out from under their bridge from time to time to take a shot at you and the Surge Swing. Go find a swing and an instructor that works for you, and stick with them. Good luck.

Ok, you know me, I can't leave it there. I will offer Mr. Anonymous one other piece of advise. Learn how to use a spell checker, and go invest in a basic college writing course. Even a well thought out argument, which his was not, is done a great disservice when it is presented poorly, which his was. When a person really believes in something, we are normally willing to put our name on it, and not hide behind the wall of "Anonymous" and take pot shots. If anyone can't or won't do that, then I can't take their position or their comments very seriously.

Keeping it vertical, and still loving swatting trolls, in Oklahoma,
Dick

Hi Surge, I think one of the problems some people may have in coming to grips with your vertical position in the golf swing is the way you demo it. I accept that to make the club light as possible it must be as near as vertical in the back swing as possible. When you demonstrate this you tend to stand upright, i.e. not in a golf stance with the upper body tilted over from the hips addressing the ball.

When you do this, then the swing looks more natural and optically the club more behind your head as you swing up. By just standing there in a unnatural upright position and demonstrate swing the club up vertically it does not look right but I purely see this as your point to show the vertical nature of the club being swung upright.

What I think some observers tend to mistake is that you are trying to tell them to swing in a vertical loop almost in front of their head and not realise that when it comes to to the actual swing in real time it is still vertical but with the upper body tilted over the ball it tends to look less upright in relation to the body because when the club reaches the finish of the back swing it is behind your head. They don't realise that it has still rotated vertically upwards.

I hope this makes sense as I appreciate that to swing the club in a plane in the back-swing that is less than vertical will be harder to generate more speed swinging forward than doing it in a vertical position, purely because of the gravity factor - if it gets laid off, then it will be harder physically to get it back on the correct plane.

Too many people are hung up on their notion of "planes". That term means way too many things to way to many people which has pretty much rendered it useless for discussions in the golfing public.

Swing the club up to as vertical as you can (the more vertical the better) and have your hands somewhere between the toe line and the heel line at the top.

Bump and let the hands start to fall toward the toe line from the top, butt end first.

And swing up to the finish.

Don't think about "planes", "trains", "re-routing", "cancelled flights", or "de-icing". Just hit the ball.

I'm not even any good at it and it still works.

Surge,
Longer it may be for lots of us, but necessary all the same. Watching the daily videos is part of my daily routine of living now. There is always some small pearl of wisdom, which re-emphasizes something that I personally need to have confirmed occassionally.
The criticism levelled by the individual to the customer services is how he personally sees things. My daily watch is more vectored towards obeying the rules that Surge has set from the start. It is too easy to pick holes in anything if that is your aim in life. The improvement in my accuracy and lack [usually] of aches and pains, which have blighted my existence on the hallowed turf of years, has been enough for me, to follow Surge and his method to hell and back. The aches and pains only appear when I don't do as directed. Simple enough.
My opinions on occassion can be caustic, but where Surge and the PPGS Clan, Nation, Fellowship, Comradeship are concerned, I have nothing but praise and support. Surge, thankyou again for an insightful and very helpful confirmatory video.
Hogmanay is just two days away [here in NZ]. May it bring renewed improvements to all Surgites, where ever they may be. Happy New Year to All of you. DH about to go out onto the wet mat for a quiet swing session in NZ

Thinking today's episode will create a buzz....

It's really ok for Anon to share his perspective, the TV "pendants" notwithstanding. Been there, done that, and I get it. He represents a segment of the golf population that might benefit from clarification. There are indeed elements of the PPGS swing that do seem odd, or counter-intuitive at first glance.

I return to this each time: it's about results. Golfer....Do what works.

In the free market of ideas, that which is inferior/ineffective will eventually
be found out. And the good stuff that works, that too will be found out.

My intuition tells me that constant bashing or mocking the rotational swing (elements) can only get so much traction. These are some gifted athletes, and
each time they stick a long iron shot right next to the pin...come on, what can you say? It is what it is. They get results.

Now, what about the rest of us ?

Simply continue to tell us what PPGS can offer. Compare and contrast.
It may be a match for some. My guess is that when understood, PPGS (and elements thereof) will be considered as a viable alternative for many.

I'm just saying....

bravo ! you cannot watch that video and not love the Surges enthusiasm. he just loves what he does and wants others to know what he knows. great..

What I don't get is his comments "how the club was designed ....."
If you come through the ball at the same position you took at address with some speed and are square to the line it doesn't matter at all how you got there.
The Surge swing is just better at having that happen consistently with less problems with damaging the body. Any swing works if you come through the ball correctly. You just need a swing that is easy to repeat for a long time over many years. I vote for the Surge .... it has eliminated my back pain and is definitely more consistent with comparable distance then anything else I was ever taught. Thank you Surge!

Thank goodness somebody else has raised this issue - I thought I was going mad! Thanks to a bad back I made the radical decision to cut over to PPGS entirely about three years ago. I bought the videos and the manual, and set about the thing from first principles. Although I came to golf late (cricket was my game until my forties) I got down to 13 fairly quickly with my old (rotational) swing. Then came two years of regression, almost without a pause until, with my handicap now 18, I was having such a miserable time on the golf course that I almost gave up.

A light bulb suddenly illuminated in my head at the start of this year and, as a consequence, I have had my best season for many a year (lots of silverware, culminating with the Top Dog trophy for the most consistent golfer of the year). This was followed by winning the November Medal and reducing my handicap to 14.8. What was this epiphany? Simply this: do what works for you and stop being such a purist about PPGS. I have taken lots of Don's tips, such as: braced knees; flared feet; weight predominantly on the RH side; 70% turn; and so on. But I no longer do what I have tried and failed to do previously, namely, a vertical club (mine is laid off and I keep my left arm straight) and starting the downswing before completing the backswing (I pause at the top). Oh and I have gone back to varifocals with no noticeable problems. As a result I strike the ball better and more consistently, and I have developed a gentle draw. I notice that DJ is not vertical at the top of his backswing either.

I can only conclude that as we are all built slightly differently we will each need an individual method. For example, I am a shorty so my swing will inevitably be a little flatter than someone of DJ's height. I still have lots to work on and next year I shall try to consciously push off my right foot so that I get to the 'T' finish more consistently but as for a vertical club - not for me.

Surge Nation

All this serious golf swing talk is giving me a headache.

The wife just let me know that she is making a big pot of homemade potato soup. Throw in a bunch of crackers and some cheese, and that should stick to the old bones. Then, finish that off with a big piece of pumpkin pie. After that we are going to do a couple of big bowls of pop corn and watch a movie curled up in front of the fire place.

Once all that is taken care of, what should I do next?

I know, I will come back out to the man cave, give you folks an after action report and watch the Ultimate Alignment Video a couple more times.

Life is good, if you let it be,
Dick

I have changed over to the PPGS and mostly love the results. The degree to which I can hit the majority of my irons very consistently and with no back pain has been a joy. The only thing which I have noticed aside from still struggling a little with the longer clubs (driver, fairway), is that I tend to hit almost all my irons very high. It seems I have lost a little distance (5-10 yards) when I hit 3-9 but all of them are going pretty high and soft landing. I bought my irons before I changed over to the PPGS swing so perhaps I need to get refit with new irons with my new swing. A local golf shop suggested that perhaps with the more vertical swing I am not requiring the lower weighting at the bottom of my game improvement irons. Should I consider some different irons that are not as weighted so heavily at the bottom, (e.g. muscle backs or blades?). I don't want to give up the PPGS swing because it has been great, but I sure do miss those extra few yards. Any thoughts?

Enjoyed Surges enthusiasm and the various comments by all from todays lively subject. All made good points and I certainly agree that many benefit from the sound physics and physiology of the PPGS swing. Surge and readers have commented in the past about the similarities to Furyk, Striker and even JB Holmes with his no wrist hinge less than parallel power. As Steven mentioned to whatever extent golfers are able to employ Don's methodology they will likely have more success. Of course I would guess that any similarities pros present or past have in common with the PPGS swing are likely coincidental and logical. As Don said he didn't invent the swing but found through science how to put it all together and then explain it and teach it. I recently read something quite telling from an interview with Rocco Mediate in the January 2013 Golf Digest, He said, "There are a lot of awesome young players on the PGA tour, but I see a lot of back problems in their futures. They're too strong and too fast for their bodies to withstand the way they're swinging. Players are too ROTARY with too much twisting. By the time these guys are 35 their backs are going to look like mine- a total war zone."

Though we don't need confirmation from the outside it is interesting that more and more are admitting the terrible toll the huge turns and twists the rotary swing does to the body.

On another note I wanted to give a final report on my clubs I put together over the past 3 days.
If you've been following you know I extracted the previous shafts and after Spining and FLOing the new PX 5.0's I installed (epoxied) the Mizuno JPX heads. The following day I measured, marked and then cut the shafts to legnth. I do this after I put the heads on. Then I cut them where marked with my new, nifty high speed air cutter. First time I used it and it worked perfect and fast. I'd used a hack saw in the past. (yes really!). I then inserted the 8 sensicores into each shaft. Then I put on my new (yellow) Enlow grips. Today came the hardest part and I feel perhaps the most over looked and important part of the project- adjusting the lofts and lies. It proved to be challenging because it takes precision, strength and leverage. Unfortunately my work bench (the table) where I have attached my loft/lie machine stands too high to lean on with enough leverage to bend the hosels. I did manage to get it done though. The toughest one was 7 iron which needed to be bent from 62 to 63.5. In fact, only the 9 iron was correct for me before adjustments. Backing up to the details of the "how" for those interested, I first hit all 8 irons on my lie board. I tape the bottoms first with masking tape then take a couple swings with each. Most were not too far off. Many were marked closer to the toe indicating that they were too flat. I found that I needed to bend all to be 2* more upright from what was the given standard specs. For example, a 9 iron, Mizuno lists standard as 62.5. After adjusting it to 64.5 I was striking it dead center of the sole. And so it went with all 8 clubs. 2* upright for all was (is) best for me. 3 clubs needed adjustment for loft too. I simply stuck with the recommended standard lofts for the JPX 800. The 4 iron needed movement from 23 to 22*, the 7 iron from 32.5 to 32 and the most off, the 6 iron from 29.5 back to 28. This gave me the ideal gapping both on lies and lofts. I have said it before and I'll say it again, everyone should have their lofts and lies checked every season if they play frequently or at least every two seasons. It's the cheapest and most over looked fix any can do for their sticks whether new or old. Remember, it will affect both distance and more importantly direction.

Now here's a brief report after taking them to the range for a quick test.
I have to admit, though I am used to mega-jumbo grips, the Enlows are a little challenging for me at first. Maybe it is the reverse taper but I'm sure it was the whole club that was new to me and they felt odd for the first half a bucket. After a while I did start finding the sweet spot and I like them so far. It will take a few more sessions to give a complete judgement.

Keep them in the short grass,

Robert M.

Surge i gotta laugh at a time like this. When I tried to explain the ppgs to my nephew and the rock and the string he looked at me kinda funny and said they already knew that in third grade science, he said mass always rotates at 90 degrees to its axis. You think that guy might figure that one out.

Hey Robert,
Great to hear about the new JPX irons; I have a 2 questions though. You suggested checking lie/loft every year or so and I have never heard that before. Are they that prone to changing?
2. What do you, or others, think about the reverse taper grips? I wear a lg cadet glove, is the grip too large for my short fingers?
Leednc