PPGS & The Vertical Position

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 10:00 -- Don Trahan

I receive a lot of comments and emails praising the Peak Performance Golf Swing. Many times I'll hear how it's enabled golfers to enjoy the game again, whether it's through pain relief or the simplicity of the swing. But, every once in a while I get the other side of the coin.

Today, I want to read an email that was sent to the website from someone whose name I won't share. They asked me not to use their comment for a daily video, but it's got some good observations and it challenges the PPGS, so I just had to devote a daily video to it.

Surge,

Your vertical position is awful! You talk about eliminating angles and yes, that is good, but you never address how the muscles work! The body must reroute the club to impact position...you are using a Furyk swing. Yes, it is radical. You are manipulating the club and teaching a methodology that requires a routing of the club against its design and then rerouting to impact. Jim Hardy does the same thing on a one plane swing but the opposite way. The club is closed on the backswing till the body can't do it anymore, then he recommends the forearm rotates to square at the top, then re-rotates closed on the down swing...gee...sounds easy doesn't it? To me, your methodology is exactly opposite. 

No it doesn't work for me. Common sense says you get the club too vertical. The club is designed to swing on an arch not a vertical plane. To swing a club vertical goes against the physics of its design. Sorry, but that is the truth of the matter, as the pendants say on TV. 

Respecully submitted,
Anonymous

First of all, I do address how the muscles work. You can check out any number of dailies or the full length videos in Surge's Shop. The particular daily video he's referring to was more about positions than what the muscles do, but to say I've never talked about it is false. 

I'll be the first to tell you that Jim Furyk does have similar positions to the PPGS because he never gets the club in the sacred burial ground. Another famous golfer who did this was Lee Trevino. These are really good observations and it's clear to me that this person has studied the golf swing extensively. 

The golf swing is an arc because it's not a perfect circle. He says it's not designed to be a vertical plane. But, everything has a vertical plane. We swing on the maximum, vertical, incline plane for our posture.  If I don't swing vertically, the club would become too heavy. When he says I get the club too vertical and says it's wrong, common sense would actually suggest that vertical is better, not worse.

The PPGS makes sense because it's based entirely on physics and physiology. I want him to see that this isn't based on logic, it's 100% fact. I didn't invent the physics of the swing, I just figured it out by piecing it together with the experts. I always want people to understand why we swing the club the way we do. I don't just tell them what to do during a lesson, I explain why we're doing it. 

It doesn't bother me when people challenge my methods because it just gives me an opportunity to explain them in greater detail. If you've followed the site for any significant period of time, you know that I constantly provide facts about the physics of a golf swing. If someone isn't having success with the swing, I suggest looking at some of the videos in Surge's Shop, as they are far more detailed.

I genuinely believe that the Peak Performance Golf Swing is a swing that can help everyone, as long as they are willing to forget what they've been taught in the past and come into it with a fresh perspective. 

Keep it vertical!

The Surge

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Comments

a2vacca's picture

Submitted by a2vacca on

I recall the great Dizzy Dean when he was told a professor said the curve ball was an optical illusion. "Just put the prof behind a tree and I will hit him with his optical illusion." All I know is I have attempted to emulate many swings from very flat, Natural Golf and a few others. PPGS works best for me. The more I work on keeping the swing vertical, watch my allignment and stay at three quarter levels, the better and straighter I hit the ball. Keep up the good sermons Friar Surge.

Tony V

Cowboy in a kilt's picture

Submitted by Cowboy in a kilt on

Surge

Some people make it too easy to disprove their contentions. Mr. Anonymous is one of those folks. In fact, your swing is quite simple. There are less moving parts than the traditional swing. It is easier to learn, and much easier on the body to perform. It produces less stress on the body, especially a busted up body. As you already know, I had given up golf altogether for almost 20 years due to severe service related injuries. Your swing gave me back the game, and allows me to play 4-6 rounds a week with no pain. I have on occasion played 4 full rounds in the same day. I challenge anyone to show me a golf swing a person with my body could use to play that much golf with no pain. I looked at every swing out there for years, and tried them all. I still could not even hit one bucket of balls on the range with any of the other swings, and get out of bed the next day. I think you have gone into great detail as to how this swing works, and how the body works best with this swing.

I always find it amusing when someone claims their version of an issue has to be the common sense side. Obviously, the Surge Swing makes common sense to a lot of people. We are here with you every day, and don't want to play golf any other way. In my case, I can't play golf any other way. Thank you so much for all you folks do for us out here in the Surge Nation. I got the UAV as soon as it was released, and love it.

I can not argue with his claim that this swing does not work for him. That is a decision only he can make. I would offer him the same advise I have given to all the rest of the trolls who come out from under their bridge from time to time to take a shot at you and the Surge Swing. Go find a swing and an instructor that works for you, and stick with them. Good luck.

Ok, you know me, I can't leave it there. I will offer Mr. Anonymous one other piece of advise. Learn how to use a spell checker, and go invest in a basic college writing course. Even a well thought out argument, which his was not, is done a great disservice when it is presented poorly, which his was. When a person really believes in something, we are normally willing to put our name on it, and not hide behind the wall of "Anonymous" and take pot shots. If anyone can't or won't do that, then I can't take their position or their comments very seriously.

Keeping it vertical, and still loving swatting trolls, in Oklahoma,
Dick

Ben H's picture

Submitted by Ben H on

Some people make it easy, some people do dis prove. Those people have never been challenged on this site, or by Don Trahan. In fact, if you try to mention the people's names who have dis proved the theory then the site recognises the name and terminates your acc !!!

I know one thing for sure. If someone had done a video to did prove my theory of a golf swing, and if I truly believed in it, would counter it the claim straight away.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

What on earth are you attempting to talk about?

You can't "dis prove" a golf swing.

If you don't like a swing then don't use it. It's as simple as that.

muffybean's picture

Submitted by muffybean on

Hi Surge, I think one of the problems some people may have in coming to grips with your vertical position in the golf swing is the way you demo it. I accept that to make the club light as possible it must be as near as vertical in the back swing as possible. When you demonstrate this you tend to stand upright, i.e. not in a golf stance with the upper body tilted over from the hips addressing the ball.

When you do this, then the swing looks more natural and optically the club more behind your head as you swing up. By just standing there in a unnatural upright position and demonstrate swing the club up vertically it does not look right but I purely see this as your point to show the vertical nature of the club being swung upright.

What I think some observers tend to mistake is that you are trying to tell them to swing in a vertical loop almost in front of their head and not realise that when it comes to to the actual swing in real time it is still vertical but with the upper body tilted over the ball it tends to look less upright in relation to the body because when the club reaches the finish of the back swing it is behind your head. They don't realise that it has still rotated vertically upwards.

I hope this makes sense as I appreciate that to swing the club in a plane in the back-swing that is less than vertical will be harder to generate more speed swinging forward than doing it in a vertical position, purely because of the gravity factor - if it gets laid off, then it will be harder physically to get it back on the correct plane.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Too many people are hung up on their notion of "planes". That term means way too many things to way to many people which has pretty much rendered it useless for discussions in the golfing public.

Swing the club up to as vertical as you can (the more vertical the better) and have your hands somewhere between the toe line and the heel line at the top.

Bump and let the hands start to fall toward the toe line from the top, butt end first.

And swing up to the finish.

Don't think about "planes", "trains", "re-routing", "cancelled flights", or "de-icing". Just hit the ball.

I'm not even any good at it and it still works.

Cowboy in a kilt's picture

Submitted by Cowboy in a kilt on

Steve

You hit it right on the head pal. It all works best when you practice it enough that you don't have to stand over the ball with 40 "swing thoughts" running through your mind. Learn to do it right, then step in, and make the shot.

How many time do we have to hear "Don't over think it?" It is easy to get paralysis by analysis.

Dick

Lynn42's picture

Submitted by Lynn42 on

Hey, Dick, just catching up on all the dailies I missed. "Don't over think it?" I resemble that remark! I'm happy to report that I now have my swing thoughts down to 30. Just need to get my midnight snack thoughts down to a resonable number. ;0)

Dragonhead's picture

Submitted by Dragonhead on

Surge,
Longer it may be for lots of us, but necessary all the same. Watching the daily videos is part of my daily routine of living now. There is always some small pearl of wisdom, which re-emphasizes something that I personally need to have confirmed occassionally.
The criticism levelled by the individual to the customer services is how he personally sees things. My daily watch is more vectored towards obeying the rules that Surge has set from the start. It is too easy to pick holes in anything if that is your aim in life. The improvement in my accuracy and lack [usually] of aches and pains, which have blighted my existence on the hallowed turf of years, has been enough for me, to follow Surge and his method to hell and back. The aches and pains only appear when I don't do as directed. Simple enough.
My opinions on occassion can be caustic, but where Surge and the PPGS Clan, Nation, Fellowship, Comradeship are concerned, I have nothing but praise and support. Surge, thankyou again for an insightful and very helpful confirmatory video.
Hogmanay is just two days away [here in NZ]. May it bring renewed improvements to all Surgites, where ever they may be. Happy New Year to All of you. DH about to go out onto the wet mat for a quiet swing session in NZ

Cowboy in a kilt's picture

Submitted by Cowboy in a kilt on

DH

Good points pal. After all the pros and cons of any swing, the main question is can you use that swing and still play golf.

The answer to that question for the PPGS is a resounding yes.

Thank God for Surge,
Dick

SimplyGolf's picture

Submitted by SimplyGolf on

Thinking today's episode will create a buzz....

It's really ok for Anon to share his perspective, the TV "pendants" notwithstanding. Been there, done that, and I get it. He represents a segment of the golf population that might benefit from clarification. There are indeed elements of the PPGS swing that do seem odd, or counter-intuitive at first glance.

I return to this each time: it's about results. Golfer....Do what works.

In the free market of ideas, that which is inferior/ineffective will eventually
be found out. And the good stuff that works, that too will be found out.

My intuition tells me that constant bashing or mocking the rotational swing (elements) can only get so much traction. These are some gifted athletes, and
each time they stick a long iron shot right next to the pin...come on, what can you say? It is what it is. They get results.

Now, what about the rest of us ?

Simply continue to tell us what PPGS can offer. Compare and contrast.
It may be a match for some. My guess is that when understood, PPGS (and elements thereof) will be considered as a viable alternative for many.

I'm just saying....

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Seems to me that Anon was certainly not looking for any clarification. Pretty sure he considered himself the clarifier instead of the clarifiee. LOL

As to what works and doesn't work, and any right or wrong...There is none. Good athletes could probably practice hitting balls while standing on their head and eventually get really good at it.

The real question is to find out what works for each of us, and there are way too many sub-par athletes out there that think they are going to learn to swing like Tiger, Rory, or Phil...Or even DJ. (It's not going to happen).

Cowboy in a kilt's picture

Submitted by Cowboy in a kilt on

SimplyGolf

Your main point is well taken. What works best, do it. History has a way of sorting through the fades and gimmicks and proving what works best.

Everyone should find the swing that works best for their game, and for their body. This one works for those of us in the Surge Nation. That is why we stick with Surge.

We have a lot of folks that question each segment of the PPGS, and that is just fine. Questions get answered and helps us all understand the swing better. That is why Surge does the daily videos. That is what open discussion and questions do. And, that is why we come on the blog to question and discuss all things golf, and sometimes all things food.

The PPGS is a viable alternative for many, and the only way to play golf without pain for a lot of us.
Dick

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Your good old saying does reminds me of my dear ol' Dad who said, "the cream always comes to the top, however poop floats too."
Sorry Dick, just couldn't resist. So many things remind me of my smart a*s Dad.
He had a million sayings, most of which I can't post here, lol!!

barrowcloughr@aol.com's picture

Submitted by barrowcloughr@a... on

bravo ! you cannot watch that video and not love the Surges enthusiasm. he just loves what he does and wants others to know what he knows. great..

Cowboy in a kilt's picture

Submitted by Cowboy in a kilt on

You nailed it pal.

There are a lot of people who are good at what they do. Not all of them can show others how to do it the right way.

Did you go ahead and get a copy of the Ultimate Alignment Video?

I have watched it 3 times so far,
Dick

dlanghorne's picture

Submitted by dlanghorne on

Just ordered it that's why I'm on the site.
Thx

Cowboy in a kilt's picture

Submitted by Cowboy in a kilt on

I hope you enjoy it as much as I have.

Cowboy in a kilt's picture

Submitted by Cowboy in a kilt on

Brady

I know pal, if this was an old VHS tape, I would be in trouble.

Every time I watch it, I pick up something new.

Great job
Dick

barrowcloughr@aol.com's picture

Submitted by barrowcloughr@a... on

yep got it.71 mins for less than $20. good value, watched some of it, good stuff.
cheers richard in the uk

barrowcloughr@aol.com's picture

Submitted by barrowcloughr@a... on

ooops sent twice lol

dlanghorne's picture

Submitted by dlanghorne on

What I don't get is his comments "how the club was designed ....."
If you come through the ball at the same position you took at address with some speed and are square to the line it doesn't matter at all how you got there.
The Surge swing is just better at having that happen consistently with less problems with damaging the body. Any swing works if you come through the ball correctly. You just need a swing that is easy to repeat for a long time over many years. I vote for the Surge .... it has eliminated my back pain and is definitely more consistent with comparable distance then anything else I was ever taught. Thank you Surge!

Steven's picture

Submitted by Steven on

Thank goodness somebody else has raised this issue - I thought I was going mad! Thanks to a bad back I made the radical decision to cut over to PPGS entirely about three years ago. I bought the videos and the manual, and set about the thing from first principles. Although I came to golf late (cricket was my game until my forties) I got down to 13 fairly quickly with my old (rotational) swing. Then came two years of regression, almost without a pause until, with my handicap now 18, I was having such a miserable time on the golf course that I almost gave up.

A light bulb suddenly illuminated in my head at the start of this year and, as a consequence, I have had my best season for many a year (lots of silverware, culminating with the Top Dog trophy for the most consistent golfer of the year). This was followed by winning the November Medal and reducing my handicap to 14.8. What was this epiphany? Simply this: do what works for you and stop being such a purist about PPGS. I have taken lots of Don's tips, such as: braced knees; flared feet; weight predominantly on the RH side; 70% turn; and so on. But I no longer do what I have tried and failed to do previously, namely, a vertical club (mine is laid off and I keep my left arm straight) and starting the downswing before completing the backswing (I pause at the top). Oh and I have gone back to varifocals with no noticeable problems. As a result I strike the ball better and more consistently, and I have developed a gentle draw. I notice that DJ is not vertical at the top of his backswing either.

I can only conclude that as we are all built slightly differently we will each need an individual method. For example, I am a shorty so my swing will inevitably be a little flatter than someone of DJ's height. I still have lots to work on and next year I shall try to consciously push off my right foot so that I get to the 'T' finish more consistently but as for a vertical club - not for me.

Cowboy in a kilt's picture

Submitted by Cowboy in a kilt on

Steven

I wish more people could figure out that some parts will work for them and some won't. Everyone is built different, and have different physical limitations.

I think it is cool that a lot of the PPGS works for you. Same here. I don't know that I will ever be able to do it just like Surge, but what I can do has saved my body and allows me to play a lot of golf.

There are other folks who come on the blog every day who don't use all of the Surge Swing. They, like you, have made use of the parts that work for them, and found a little different way to do the rest of it.

Nothing works like success,
Dick

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Steven...I'm glad you are playing better, and not one of us is going to be a carbon copy of Surge, so we all have to find our own way to one degree or another.

You did make one mistake in your comment that needs to be corrected and, frankly, is surprising for someone that has used the PPGS for 3 years.

DJ is vertical at the top of the back swing, and sometimes past vertical and across the line (as is Surge). "Vertical" is from a down the line view and has nothing to do with the club being at 1 to 2 o'clock from a face on view.

Terry Medley's picture

Submitted by Terry Medley on

I was about to post something similar to Steven. Far to many folks confuse the length of ones back swing with their Vertical-ness, when they are two separate creatures. I think it might just be one of the main if not The main point of confusion for new folks. Especially those who have never looked at the Manual.

Steven's picture

Submitted by Steven on

I have just been watching a Youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhNv9VGYg3I) of DJ in slo-mo showing his swing with each club in the bag. Even with a wedge the top of his backswing he is beyond the vertical and with a Driver he is almost at 3 o'clock before starting his downswing. There is no way he could do Don's test and drop the club straight down through his hands at the top of his backswing. Perhaps this is what you meant. He also looks to my eye that there is a hinging of the wrists and a correction of his plane about halfway through the backswing (from slightly laid-off to more of a 'Ferris wheel' plane). Yes, he has a more upright swing (like Jim Furyk) than many but he is a tall man. Nick Faldo has a more upright swing than, say, Ian Woosnam. There is nothing wrong with having an individual swing (as everybody used to have before standardised PGA coaching took hold, at least in the UK) and this obviously works for DJ. 'Vertical' works for some but, having tried it for a couple of years, not for me.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

"Vertical" has absolutely to do with how long the swing is. Even a "by the book" Surge swing is at 1 to 2 o'clock from a face on view.

"VERTICAL IS FROM A DOWN THE LINE VIEW".

"VERTICAL IS NOT WHAT CONTROLS WHETHER A SWING IS 3/4 OR NOT".
(A longer than 3/4 swing can still be vertical).

"WHEN SURGE HOLDS THE CLUB AT TRUE VERTICAL IT IS ONLY DEOMONSTRATING THE GRAVITY EFFECT OF VERTICAL"

DJ does go past 3/4 and Surge has said he wishes he would shorten that, but once again, that has nothing to do with "vertical".

Surge should have stopped the demo he does where he holds the club vertically and lets it drop because people have always been mis-lead into thinking that is actually the correct position at the top. IT IS NOT.

Steven's picture

Submitted by Steven on

Forgive me, Steve, but do not your first and third points contradict each other? There is a great deal of difference between a vertical plane and a vertical club and my understanding of Don's teaching is that he advocates a vertical club (a vertical club is a light club etc - a club that has gone past the vertical is no longer light whether laid-off or not). Also, DJ's left arm seems to be straight, which again I understand is not Don's teaching and there seems to be wrist hinge, although there is so much confusion about this that I might be wrong. The Pro at our club says it is impossible to have no wrist hinge at all and still hit the ball properly. I certainly can't do it. I shall go down to the range later this week and start to hit a few balls, not having played for a month, and see what happens.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Those points don't contradict each other at all. The first is simply a fact and true in a real golf swing or in the demo that Surge loves to do letting the club slide down through his hands (and causes more confusion than anything since the Rubix Cube).

The second is only describing the demo and is absolutely NOT the correct position at the top of the backswing from a face on view.

I will try one more time.

When it comes to describing "vertical" the only thing that matters is a down the line view, like you were standing on the toe line to the right of a right handed golfer and looking down the line.

How far past vertical a golfer goes from a face on view is not what "vertical" means in a Surge Swing. It's even in the literature with diagrams and everything showing that from a face on view the club goes to 1 or 2 o'clock.
DJ goes farther than 2 o'clock but it's a mistake that Surge would like for him to keep under control.

The only time a swing is going to stop at vertical from a face on view is if it's a less than full shot or some kind of a knockdown shot.

When Surge holds the club vertical from both a down the line view AND a face on view and lets the club slide down it is only to show the effect of a "light club" in the swing and it is NOT showing the poisition he (or anyone else) wants to be in at the top.

I don't know what else I can say to explain it any more than that.
Edit: Maybe this will help (although the pictures seem to be missing).
https://swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/swing-clock-defined

And this is a perfect position of a "vertical" swing from a face on view. (As you can see the face on view has the shaft at about 2 o'clock). You are NOT trying to keep the club vertical from a face on view).

Steven's picture

Submitted by Steven on

You go too far, sir. I find your grammatical style a bit odd and not easy to decipher at times but, after having told me that I am wrong (about DJ's swing), you now seem to agree with me in your rather SHOUTY fashion. Further, that Don's use of a vertical (light club) is confusing to say the least. You have some history here, Mr Smith, and I am afraid that the main reason why I seldom read the comments and rarely post anything these days is: you. I will continue to follow Don's tips and post my next comment, if I have anything useful to say (hint), in eight or nine months towards the back end of our season. I would appreciate it if you could either find a way to reply using a less ill-mannered tone or, better still, not at all. In case you are tempted to respond to this I have unsubscribed from receiving further comments. Enjoy 2013.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Sorry I went to the trouble to try to explain it to you. Some people can't be helped.

Cowboy in a kilt's picture

Submitted by Cowboy in a kilt on

Surge Nation

All this serious golf swing talk is giving me a headache.

The wife just let me know that she is making a big pot of homemade potato soup. Throw in a bunch of crackers and some cheese, and that should stick to the old bones. Then, finish that off with a big piece of pumpkin pie. After that we are going to do a couple of big bowls of pop corn and watch a movie curled up in front of the fire place.

Once all that is taken care of, what should I do next?

I know, I will come back out to the man cave, give you folks an after action report and watch the Ultimate Alignment Video a couple more times.

Life is good, if you let it be,
Dick

Dragonhead's picture

Submitted by Dragonhead on

Hahaha! Never misses Dick mate. Note you still finished off with the Ultimate Alignment Video ; - )
Just finished the lunch of the day, fish, rice and Broccolli, yummy and ate 'comfortably' as advised by the Chef ; - ) Keep on PPGS'ing in Oklahoma and swatting Trolls.
Just off to swing and warm up the raddled old carcass with my post lunch coffee. DH

db1hopkins@earthlink.net's picture

Submitted by db1hopkins@eart... on

I have changed over to the PPGS and mostly love the results. The degree to which I can hit the majority of my irons very consistently and with no back pain has been a joy. The only thing which I have noticed aside from still struggling a little with the longer clubs (driver, fairway), is that I tend to hit almost all my irons very high. It seems I have lost a little distance (5-10 yards) when I hit 3-9 but all of them are going pretty high and soft landing. I bought my irons before I changed over to the PPGS swing so perhaps I need to get refit with new irons with my new swing. A local golf shop suggested that perhaps with the more vertical swing I am not requiring the lower weighting at the bottom of my game improvement irons. Should I consider some different irons that are not as weighted so heavily at the bottom, (e.g. muscle backs or blades?). I don't want to give up the PPGS swing because it has been great, but I sure do miss those extra few yards. Any thoughts?

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Before you do anything too drastic with your clubs be sure that it's simply not letting the club head get too far up even or past your hands at impact.

That's an easy mistake to make, especially with short irons.

I hit the ball very high with irons myself (and always did) but since trying to use the PPGS they go much farther (and higher).

P.S. I have been convinced for a long time that if you do the swing fairly close to correctly you will definitely hit the ball much farther with the irons.

db1hopkins@earthlink.net's picture

Submitted by db1hopkins@eart... on

Thanks for the comment but I am not exactly sure what you mean by "simply not letting the club head get too far up even or past your hands at impact". Do you mean casting? Or something else?

Terry Medley's picture

Submitted by Terry Medley on

I should probably wait on Steve to answer, but I'm sure he will correct me if I'm in error. I think what he meant was at impact to not let the club head be even with or ahead of the hands, thus adding loft to the actual loft of the club and making a 6 iron into a 7 or 8 at impact point. When an iron is in it's natural soled position, the grip will be ahead of the club head, and thus should it be at impact.

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Enjoyed Surges enthusiasm and the various comments by all from todays lively subject. All made good points and I certainly agree that many benefit from the sound physics and physiology of the PPGS swing. Surge and readers have commented in the past about the similarities to Furyk, Striker and even JB Holmes with his no wrist hinge less than parallel power. As Steven mentioned to whatever extent golfers are able to employ Don's methodology they will likely have more success. Of course I would guess that any similarities pros present or past have in common with the PPGS swing are likely coincidental and logical. As Don said he didn't invent the swing but found through science how to put it all together and then explain it and teach it. I recently read something quite telling from an interview with Rocco Mediate in the January 2013 Golf Digest, He said, "There are a lot of awesome young players on the PGA tour, but I see a lot of back problems in their futures. They're too strong and too fast for their bodies to withstand the way they're swinging. Players are too ROTARY with too much twisting. By the time these guys are 35 their backs are going to look like mine- a total war zone."

Though we don't need confirmation from the outside it is interesting that more and more are admitting the terrible toll the huge turns and twists the rotary swing does to the body.

On another note I wanted to give a final report on my clubs I put together over the past 3 days.
If you've been following you know I extracted the previous shafts and after Spining and FLOing the new PX 5.0's I installed (epoxied) the Mizuno JPX heads. The following day I measured, marked and then cut the shafts to legnth. I do this after I put the heads on. Then I cut them where marked with my new, nifty high speed air cutter. First time I used it and it worked perfect and fast. I'd used a hack saw in the past. (yes really!). I then inserted the 8 sensicores into each shaft. Then I put on my new (yellow) Enlow grips. Today came the hardest part and I feel perhaps the most over looked and important part of the project- adjusting the lofts and lies. It proved to be challenging because it takes precision, strength and leverage. Unfortunately my work bench (the table) where I have attached my loft/lie machine stands too high to lean on with enough leverage to bend the hosels. I did manage to get it done though. The toughest one was 7 iron which needed to be bent from 62 to 63.5. In fact, only the 9 iron was correct for me before adjustments. Backing up to the details of the "how" for those interested, I first hit all 8 irons on my lie board. I tape the bottoms first with masking tape then take a couple swings with each. Most were not too far off. Many were marked closer to the toe indicating that they were too flat. I found that I needed to bend all to be 2* more upright from what was the given standard specs. For example, a 9 iron, Mizuno lists standard as 62.5. After adjusting it to 64.5 I was striking it dead center of the sole. And so it went with all 8 clubs. 2* upright for all was (is) best for me. 3 clubs needed adjustment for loft too. I simply stuck with the recommended standard lofts for the JPX 800. The 4 iron needed movement from 23 to 22*, the 7 iron from 32.5 to 32 and the most off, the 6 iron from 29.5 back to 28. This gave me the ideal gapping both on lies and lofts. I have said it before and I'll say it again, everyone should have their lofts and lies checked every season if they play frequently or at least every two seasons. It's the cheapest and most over looked fix any can do for their sticks whether new or old. Remember, it will affect both distance and more importantly direction.

Now here's a brief report after taking them to the range for a quick test.
I have to admit, though I am used to mega-jumbo grips, the Enlows are a little challenging for me at first. Maybe it is the reverse taper but I'm sure it was the whole club that was new to me and they felt odd for the first half a bucket. After a while I did start finding the sweet spot and I like them so far. It will take a few more sessions to give a complete judgement.

Keep them in the short grass,

Robert M.

MikefromKy's picture

Submitted by MikefromKy on

Which JPX'S did you get ?

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Mike, I got the original JPX 800's 4-pw and gw. BTW, strange, I just wrote out a detailed discription of why and how I came up with the 800's and it is not here. Hmmnnn....... Another computer mystery or just simply a mis q on my part.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Ha ha! If you scroll to the bottom and click on page 2 your last comment is on that page.

On the blogs with many comments, that continue to a second page, most of what we write is never seen... Maybe sometimes for the best. LOL
Lots of trouble for nothing though.

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade on

Thanks Steve,
I'm not a fast typer and I normally preview to spell and gramer check before saving. Thought maybe I previewed and didn't save it before shutting down my lap top earlier. I'm on my droid now. Maybe less is better any how. I tend to get long winded. Lol indeed:)

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

As we all are Robert. To write something that is even remotely clear to everybody is very hard to do in just a few words.

MikefromKy's picture

Submitted by MikefromKy on

I have the 800 PRO's. I was not sure which ones you were getting. If you notice my original post was on Friday. Just read your Saturday post.

Mike

rayandteewee@yahoo.com's picture

Submitted by rayandteewee@ya... on

Surge i gotta laugh at a time like this. When I tried to explain the ppgs to my nephew and the rock and the string he looked at me kinda funny and said they already knew that in third grade science, he said mass always rotates at 90 degrees to its axis. You think that guy might figure that one out.

Leednc's picture

Submitted by Leednc on

Hey Robert,
Great to hear about the new JPX irons; I have a 2 questions though. You suggested checking lie/loft every year or so and I have never heard that before. Are they that prone to changing?
2. What do you, or others, think about the reverse taper grips? I wear a lg cadet glove, is the grip too large for my short fingers?
Leednc

Cowboy in a kilt's picture

Submitted by Cowboy in a kilt on

Leednc

I also wear a large cadet. I love the Enlow grip. I am still new to it, but have had zero problems with the size.

As to the lie/loft adjustments, yes they should be checked every couple of years. You would not believe how much they get banged around. Those of us who use the PPGS and don't take the big divots might not knock them out as often as the rest of the trench diggers. But, if you hit a few roots, or a rock here and there, it will move your club lie/loft angles.

Dick

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